Nec as baseline?


Bronze Knight

 

Posted

So I was just thinking about masterminds (as I frequently do), and wondering if nec/ would be a good baseline for primaries. As in, all MM primaries should be at least that good, and perhaps not a whole lot better.

My current thoughts on power rankings are as such:
Note: This is independent of secondaries, vs. general enemy types, low level micromanagement, and all powers are slotted with SOs. I.E. as played by an "average player".

1. Bots (with /mu)
2. Demon/Thug (bots without /mu)
3. Necro
4. Merc
5. Nin

The merc vs. nin bit is debatable (with myself, yes I debate myself!), I only ranked merc higher because they tend to have the additional survivability of a ranged pet.

Necro has always seemed "good enough" to me. The pets tend to be more vulnerable due to their melee nature, but the lich debuffs and the self heal tends to make up for that in the late game, where it counts.

Bots, Demons & thugs are noticeably more powerful than nec to me with basic slotting BUT not hugely and gamebreakingly so.

Bots with /mu is noticeably stronger than without.

I'm not arguing for a nerf to the top three - but I wouldn't cry if we got it PROVIDING we got a matching buff to merc & nin.

Yes, you can get hedge cases by pairing strong primaries with secondaries that are weak vs. specific encounter types or weak primaries with strong secondaries (/dark is the best example of this - nin/dark and merc/dark are completely playable imho).

Thoughts?

[edit:
I suppose I should post my mm list so you can see where I'm coming from background wise:

50 bot/dark, nec/dark, nec/pain
44 thug/trap
43 thug/ff
40 nin/pois
37 merc/ff, dem/pois, dem/therm
36 thug/ta
32 nin/storm, merc/storm, dem/dark
28 merc/dark
27 thug/dark
24 dem/pain x3
]


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Posted

I agree...

As you say Merc v.s. Nin both in the same category realy. Nin has really bad pets Merc has a bad support power and somewhat bad pets. All and all tho I just wish the old MM sets would get looked at, even just a little bit.

My idea buff those bellow the bar and any new sets keep them around the same level between Daemon and Necro.


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Posted

First off, I agree with your rankings.

I would really like to see Nin and Merc get improved to be as good as Necro. Once the "melee" bug is fixed, they could look at giving Nin and Merc some much needed improvements. That being said, I have played every MM primary to ~30 and they are all fun. I look forward to making more!


 

Posted

IMO, the only thing that ninjas need is more survivability. Their damage is just fine.

I'd like to see their defenses inspired by SR.

When summoned:

Genin - 5 def to all
Jounin - 10 def to all
Oni - 10 def to all, + some resistance

Then each pet upgrade adds on another 5 to all. On top of this, give them the scaling resists of SR.

Alternatively, just have their defense scale with level, though I don't think this solution works well for low-level players or those who flashback often.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poisonfist1 View Post
First off, I agree with your rankings.

I would really like to see Nin and Merc get improved to be as good as Necro. Once the "melee" bug is fixed, they could look at giving Nin and Merc some much needed improvements. That being said, I have played every MM primary to ~30 and they are all fun. I look forward to making more!
Yeah, and I suppose I should have said that none of them are actually "weak"... this is all relative! Even with just SOs they all do fine - but it's still pretty noticeable how much "weaker" nin & merc are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Impact View Post
IMO, the only thing that ninjas need is more survivability. Their damage is just fine.

I'd like to see their defenses inspired by SR.

When summoned:

Genin - 5 def to all
Jounin - 10 def to all
Oni - 10 def to all, + some resistance

Then each pet upgrade adds on another 5 to all. On top of this, give them the scaling resists of SR.

Alternatively, just have their defense scale with level, though I don't think this solution works well for low-level players or those who flashback often.
Looks good - I posted something very similar in another thread.
Scaling resists like /SR would help a bit, and I wouldn't be against jonin getting like the /nin reconstruction or anything.....


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Posted

I would put Ninjas above Necro since they are the best single target henchmen in the game provided the genins and jounins are in melee range. Although Necro has the cooler level 18 power.


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