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Yes, but how to change CM to affect the caster without violating the cottage rule? As it is, it needs a target to cast and another poster has already stated that he likes being able to remove mezzes at range, probably through the targetting reticle. This is exactly the reason why the cottage rule exists. If it weren't for that fact, I would suggest to make it a PBAoE with the same range as Healing Aura, since the Defender is bound to try to keep as many allies within that range as possible. But that would require changing the recharge, which would in turn make it impossible for CM to free someone from Ghost Widow's clutches.|
Originally Posted by Biospark
Getting back to your clear mind suggestion though, If a change were made to CM with the idea of improving solo parity (making Empathy solo better), your suggestion is not the way I would like to see it. Its too "kludgy" to take a half-step and force a player to "bring a friend anyway". Plus I hate pets. In the case of improving Empathy's solo capability, our choices are limited : Clear Mind, Fortitude, Adrenaline Boost. I think you can see why MY compromise is to stay within the "Pacifist" theme of the set and give it Clear Mind while solo and leave AB and Fort alone. They would be too powerful anyway.
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We could however, leave CM as it is and add mez protection to one of the other powers. Say, make each of the auras give the regular effects plus mez protection only to the caster when he uses them.
Although I agree with you that Recovery Aura needs to change somewhat. I remember the frustration of playing my Empath when RA wasn't up, as opposed to when it was. I'd make it something like the Pain Dom auto-heal but with endurance.
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I had actually thought about the idea of adding Mezz protection in Recovery Aura.|
Originally Posted by MonkeySpirit
Yes, but how to change CM to affect the caster without violating the cottage rule? As it is, it needs a target to cast and another poster has already stated that he likes being able to remove mezzes at range, probably through the targetting reticle. This is exactly the reason why the cottage rule exists. If it weren't for that fact, I would suggest to make it a PBAoE with the same range as Healing Aura, since the Defender is bound to try to keep as many allies within that range as possible. But that would require changing the recharge, which would in turn make it impossible for CM to free someone from Ghost Widow's clutches.
We could however, leave CM as it is and add mez protection to one of the other powers. Say, make each of the auras give the regular effects plus mez protection only to the caster when he uses them. Although I agree with you that Recovery Aura needs to change somewhat. I remember the frustration of playing my Empath when RA wasn't up, as opposed to when it was. I'd make it something like the Pain Dom auto-heal but with endurance. |
You could change it's recharge to 240sec, reduce the recovery to +60% and add mezz protection. This would be acceptible to me as well.
Edited to remove "snarky comments" Sorry
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Quote:
I actually meant to say "unenhancable." I think being able to fire off Disruption Field and Repulsion without an ally (but make these two actions mutually exclusive, where each one disables the other) would solve the problem likity split.|
Originally Posted by Biospark
Your counterpoint about changing Disruption Field is well-conceived. Great discussion so far.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Biospark
So, how do we get more AoE -res while solo without Sonic Disruption. This is one of the reasons why I feel Liquefy should be made more available.
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. It's -def, -tohit, knockdown, hold, and slow.Quote:
| I think having Sonic Siphon, Sonic Disruption AND Liquefy would be too much AoE -res. |
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| What if Sonic Repulsion became an PBAoE knockback with -Res? It is available at level 18, which is kinda late as a debuff power, but considering how nice Sonic Dispersion is, this would be Ok for a soloer. What Duration on the debuff ? How strong should it be ? Because now we have three stacking -Res effects (one ally toggle, one long recharge placeable, and one PBAoE). |
I'm curious if you would still oppose Sonic Siphon as the AoE -res instead, knowing that Liquefy doesn't offer -res.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Quote:
Honestly, I made an assumption about Liquefy. My Bad.|
Originally Posted by Gilia
.....I get the impression that you might have been led to believe that Liquefy has a -res component. It doesn't
. It's -def, -tohit, knockdown, hold, and slow.So with that in mind, do you still think it's too much AoE -res? As DrMike pointed out, right now the AoE -res on Sonic is less than Trick Arrow's. Sonic only wins the -res game if you consider single targets, and even then it's not by much. I'm still really keen on a solo-form of Disruption and Repulsion. This is an interesting take on it, however. It would take one of the team-only powers and make it in some regard solo only (most folks probably wouldn't like you doing PBAoE knockback in order to get the -res on there). It would maintain its "Controllers get more use out of it" with the -kb AoE immobilizes. In order not to heavily favor them, however, I would be inclined to say give it a smaller debuff with a long duration. Like -15% for 45 seconds or something like that. I'm curious if you would still oppose Sonic Siphon as the AoE -res instead, knowing that Liquefy doesn't offer -res. |
So in light of that, I think Sonic Siphon as a short duration AoE debuff would be great.
As a balancing effort, what if it was like Gale ? A nice Cone effect. Thematically it makes sense for the set, even though it is like a blast, it could be balanced in much the same way as Gale (lower accuracy, minor damage, and being a cone, of course).
That extra amount of damage for your aoe attacks would work well without creating too many stacking issues while on a team. Personally, making it unstackable with Sonic disruption would just be a way to avoid a re-balancing of the -res in Sonic Disruption. If the duration on Sonic Siphon were short enough, I wouldn't think that stacking would be that much of a problem.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
/Sonic resonance from a corruptor perspective. Please don't hurt me my fellow Defenders. 
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I like that I can put on an ally, and just blast away without worrying about the anchor dying. It is fine as is.| Disruption Field : Change this from targeted Ally to targeted Enemy. Many Powersets have anchor debuffs, so there is no reason why Sonic cannot use its MAIN effect while solo. |
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| Sonic Repulsion : Change this from targeted Ally to Self-centered Toggle like Repulsion Field (Forcefields) or Repel (Kinetics) It was an interesting idea, but not one which actually works very well. In fact all these types of powers should be re-evaluated. From my studies, these types of powers, if enhanced well, can simulate resistance with an effect around 50% (best performance), but the cost is extraordinary. I would (at the very least) remove the per-target endurance cost and call it a day. |
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How does that improve their Solo performance ? This is the subject of discussion.|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
/Sonic resonance from a corruptor perspective. Please don't hurt me my fellow Defenders.
I like that I can put on an ally, and just blast away without worrying about the anchor dying. It is fine as is. They need to make it unique, and not a clone of FF or Kinetics. Repulsion should do some smash/energy damage with a -res effect. Slap a decent lengthed recharge (eg 60s). |
Unless you are recommending making it an AoE damage power (which I kinda like the sound of), but how would that be different than what they did for FF some time ago ?
Welcome to the discussion btw.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Quote:
I like the idea of a cone, though to give it a larger area (and maybe some ticks of damage), they'd have to balance that with a smaller target cap, either 10 or maybe even 5. Of course, what I had in mind was a small radius, small cap, targeted AoE. It'd be like using Electric Fences from the Brute Mu Mastery. It's a respectable amount of AoE, but it wouldn't break farming or make you able to handle a much bigger mob.|
Originally Posted by Biospark
So in light of that, I think Sonic Siphon as a short duration AoE debuff would be great.
As a balancing effort, what if it was like Gale ? A nice Cone effect. Thematically it makes sense for the set, even though it is like a blast, it could be balanced in much the same way as Gale (lower accuracy, minor damage, and being a cone, of course). That extra amount of damage for your aoe attacks would work well without creating too many stacking issues while on a team. Personally, making it unstackable with Sonic disruption would just be a way to avoid a re-balancing of the -res in Sonic Disruption. If the duration on Sonic Siphon were short enough, I wouldn't think that stacking would be that much of a problem. |
However, if they made it so it did not stack with Sonic Disruption, S Resonance would no longer have a leg up on the -res game in any sense. It would be brought down and into line with Cold Domination, Storm, and Radiation, and then Trick Arrow would become the -res queen.
I realize Sonic Resonance can't be balanced around Sonic blast, but Howl has a -20% AoE debuff on a 10 second recharge. Right now, Sonic Siphon is -30% with a 16 second recharge against one target. I don't see how making it an AoE, and leaving everything else the same, would be unbalanced. Some tweaks maybe, but no major draw backs, like perhaps bring the animation from 2.17 to 2.33 (what Howl has) or reduce Siphon's duration.
Currently, the leg up Siphon has on the regular attacks its duration is 30 seconds, vs the attacks' 8 seconds. Reducing it to say 20s or even 16s means it would still be perma, more effective than the attacks, and again, solidify Sonic as the best at -res.
The more I think about it, just upping Dispersion's resists and making Siphon AoE would be a good enough fix for Sonic Resonance. It addresses the parity of solo to team slightly, though not by the same measure you used (the quantity of powers would remain the same). I imagine a Sonic/Sonic Corruptor would become solidly the highest damage straight blaster setup with just this change.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
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Yep. As I stated in my OP, it really would only take ONE reasonable and effective change to improve the solo Parity of these Defender powersets in the solo game.|
Originally Posted by Gilia
The more I think about it, just upping Dispersion's resists and making Siphon AoE would be a good enough fix for Sonic Resonance. It addresses the parity of solo to team slightly, though not by the same measure you used (the quantity of powers would remain the same). I imagine a Sonic/Sonic Corruptor would become solidly the highest damage straight blaster setup with just this change.
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I am kinda hoping some players of Thermal and Pain stop by to add their thoughts to the mix. Since we are here on the Defender thread, it could explain why not much has been said.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Well, as everyone likely knows, I have been a campaigner for Force Fields to gain more soloability in the past, and so I don't necessarily agree with its position on your list. For one thing, it is very hard to clarify what is a "usable while solo" power. Dark's Howling Twilight is certainly usable solo, and even useful on a team when no one is dead, but that is not its PRIMARY purpose. I don't think you can say that Howling Twilight is the same power solo as it is on a team.
Likewise, Detention Field (and Sonic Cage) is an extremely useful power solo, possibily even to the point where it can make soloing possible, and yet it is universally accepted to be nearly useless on a team. So while other sets may have team based powers they would skip for a solo build, Detention Field is a power that can actually be detrimental for a team build, when an actual team based power (such as Deflection Shield) would be much more useful.
Personally, I feel that the balance of team-based versus solo-usable powers isn't the issue. Rather, it is the relative strength OF those solo powers. If the limited number of solo powers provided all the capability required of a solo Defender, there would be no problem, outside of "must have" powers that are the hallmark of any such a concentrated selection of capabilities. Looking at many of the buff-based sets, it looks very much like the powers are intended to be complementary, with the capabilities of a buff being split between a team usable one, and one usable on the caster. For instance, Kinetics has Siphon Speed and Speed Boost, and Force Field has Deflection/Insulation Shield and Personal Force Field. (Although PFF is due to its design more of a situational power and not constant protection)
Another, even larger issue, is the lack of offensive benefit in many of the same sets that you point out for low solo-oriented powers. Empathy has no offensive boosts which are usable on the caster, and even Pain Domination, while it has been given many damage boosts (and intentionally so, I believe) still requires a teammate for many of them. Thermal, like Cold Domination, puts off its offensive boost until level 32. (38 for Corruptors) Many of your suggestions revolve around this lack of offense, although in your case you often recommend either +recharge or +end in place of more damage. (But both are offensive buffs)
This brings me around to Sonic, which is the one place in which I am in complete agreement. Sonic suffers from many of the same drawbacks as FF, coupled with even more powers, particularly its one primary offensive boost, which are not usable solo. I have said this before, and I'll say it again, it seems completely backwards to me that Sonic ASSAULT actually offers more -Res to a Defender than Sonic RESONANCE. I think the strength of Sonic Assault is the root of this problem, if Sonic Res were stronger, Sonic Assault would be overpowered.
On the other hand, Sonic sacrifices most of its protection and nearly all of its knockback (Liquify is the only power that still retains a portion of FF's crowd control capabilities) for that increased offense, and it's not nearly enough. And the other blast sets are not all that different in their capabilities, Rad Blast is capable of considerable -Def even compared to Rad Emission, and Dark Blast can lower -Acc about the same as Dark Miasma. Sonic's issues are more that so many of its powers are ally targettable instead of foe targetted, and that its Res is not really comparable to FF's Def. (1 Def is supposedly equal to about 2 Res, and Sonic's Resistance isn't anywhere near that)
I'm not saying that your suggestions aren't good ones, but there may be more to it than just number of powers. The solution, I think, is to concentrate on the powers that ARE usable solo, and rather than change them around in violation of the Cottage Rule, to add on additional capabilities that merely supplement the existing use. For instance, I've suggested making Sonic Siphon like Siphon Power, when it siphons Resistance from its target, it gives it to the caster. This will help augment the Defender's Sonic Dispersion and help bring up his resiliance, which is an issue since he lacks PFF. Making it a cone or AoE in terms of the -Res effect will help, too, and help balance that Disruption Field is not usable when solo.
Likewise, I would definately like to see Empathy gain more offensive boosts from their powers in much the same as Pain Domination. That "experiment" seems to have been somewhat successful, and Empathy and Thermal could use to be given much the same sort of treatment. Of course, any power that requires a teammate to use is not going to be useful solo, but it will give the Defender or Corruptor a more solid role in a duo or a small team.
To look at it from another angle...
I've always defended the idea that some sets are better solo-ers than others. I believe in the perfect CoX I should be able to make an informed choice to pick a character who solos terribly but really shines on teams.
What could the four poorest solo sets to make them really shine on teams?
Thermal and Sonic need Psi Resistance.
Its the number one hole in armour sets - SR/Fire/Ice/Invulnerability and Stone all have a weakness to it, and its kind of embarassing to turn up to a fight against Carnies or the Clockwork King and be unable to help there. (And Force Fields gets Psi Defence in Dispersion Bubble.)
I'd suggest putting it in Clarity, and Sonic Dispersion. Maybe in Thaw for Thermal, or just in Plasma Shield since a Therm is having to apply two sets of shields already.
Thermal and Sonic need end tools (the other post-40 problem).
Its embarassing to watch everyone's end plummet fighting Carnies (to say nothing of your own issues as a Sonic). Any of the resistance shields could get some End Drain resistance like Insulation Shield gets. Forge could get some +Recovery to help out whoever's struggling the most. It really does seem a bit sub-par to me as it is, this would help a lot. Maybe even a little +Recharge to turn it into the "offensive Fortitude" it should be.
Pain needs something...
DeathBringer's swapping of the +100% Recharge from AB for +50% damage is poor. That's two little red pills, costing 100 inf I believe? Its 25% net damage output, less for Brutes. Make it +100% already (like I said for thaw earlier)
Give Enforced Morale a flat +25% Recharge boost, that doesn't stack from the same user. Whoever gave it a stackable 5% up to 25% knows the meaning of the word Pain, alright. Give it the fast cast of 1s and it would be worth keeping up on a team, and Pain has no other "buff-bot" duties at present.
This could get nasty on superteams, of course...
Empathy
I really don't know, despite my main being an Empath. A bit more +Damage on Fortitude? Maybe the ability to AB two allies with some decent recharge? (eg base 200 sec cooldown)
I do like the fact you play favourites with Empathy buffs, trying to work within that is tricky.
Hello Jade,
Welcome to the discussion !
you brought many comments in your post, so let me try to comment on the ones that I can. Sorry if I miss anything.
I mentioned in my OP that discussing other powersets besides the "basement" sets was definitely open to discuss, and you hit on the exact reason why with your comments about Forcefields. Solo parity is NOT just about how many powers you have that are useful. That was just the place I chose to start the discussion. Another powerset that I think falls into this category is Kinetics. This set is able to use 7 of 9 powers solo, but I think that we can all agree that it has some "issues" soloing. So I absolutely agree that Solo "Parity" is not as cut-and-dry as I may have presented it.
You also mentioned "offense" in respect to solo-ing. I tend to lump offense with speed when talking about solo capabilities. When you model offensive boosts they reduce the length of combat, which reduces incoming damage. In this respect, I believe that having Offensive boosts are great in the "solo" theatre, but I actually kind of like that some choices would tend to be more, or less, Offensive.
So, with respect to Forcefields, having great defense, status protection and soft control with knockback but no "offensive" boosts is fine thematically, even if it doesn't make soloing faster. The fact that it can solo pretty darn well, albeit slower, says that it is not "hurting" for parity as some other powersets are.
Since you are not the first person to mention the issue of Sonic blast being too good as the possible reason for Sonic resonance's failings, It makes me wonder if the Devs actually tested these two sets seperately or not. My Sonic is Sonic/Energy and it was kind of a shock when playing him solo just how poorly the primary worked. It did one thing though, it made me REALLY appreciate how good Forcefields was/is.
As far as Empathy is concerned, I think it falls into the same "Thematic" issues as forcefields in that it's design is more "defensive" or "pacifistic" even. So getting Offensive boosts for solo play may be something that I would love to see, I am not holding my breath on it.
You also mentioned Pain Domination. Having finally tried that set during GR Beta, I am now completely convinced that the Devs have learned a great deal about balancing Team and Solo powers over the last 6 years. Pain has some noticeable improvements over Empathy without being better or worse, just different. That doesn't mean its a great solo-ing set, but I can tell that it would be better at level 50 than Empathy.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Quote:
Well, I've played a Ice/Thermal Controller to 50 and a Necro/Pain Mastermind to 50. I just don't think they call for as much attention as Sonic Resonance :P.|
Originally Posted by Biospark
Yep. As I stated in my OP, it really would only take ONE reasonable and effective change to improve the solo Parity of these Defender powersets in the solo game.
I am kinda hoping some players of Thermal and Pain stop by to add their thoughts to the mix. Since we are here on the Defender thread, it could explain why not much has been said. |
I believe you forgot Suppress Pain/Soothing Aura on your count for Pain Domination. I base this on your number being one lower than my count and you didn't mention it when you talked about the level placement of solo powers.
For Pain, all I'd really like to see is a wider radius World of Pain. It's already pretty big, so why not? This is my personal taste of course. The other thing I'd like to see is Anguishing Cry get a slight reduction in recharge time. Without IOs, it can only be up half the time. That's a ways behind most other sets' -res. I agree Pain Bringer getting some +recharge would have been nice.
For Thermal, I really like how Forge works now. It's good off the bat and becomes awesome with more recharge. My only complaint for Thermal is similar to pain, which is that Heat Exhaustion and Melt Armor are so far from perma out of the box. Since Thermal has shields, heals, a rez, and some good buffs, I'm guessing the debuffs were given such high recharge intentionally to be a balance. "Fixing" Thermal would probably just make it too good.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Quote:
Hmmm, interesting Insight Dr.Mike|
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
To look at it from another angle...
I've always defended the idea that some sets are better solo-ers than others. I believe in the perfect CoX I should be able to make an informed choice to pick a character who solos terribly but really shines on teams. What could the four poorest solo sets to make them really shine on teams? |
Your ideas would certainly be effective on the teaming front.
Here is my take on it though. Having played support characters in many MMOs and healers mostly, I know how it feels to be on both sides of the "looking for <insert Class/AT here> to join <insert raid/dungeon here>" In EQ I played a Ranger, and it would take me anywhere from 45 min to 2 hours, depending on zone, to find a team that would take me. This got to be a real aggravating aspect of the game. So much so that in EVERY MMO since 2001, I have chosen support roles, because it not only matches my preferred playstyle, but I NEVER want to be one of the "pity invites" EVER AGAIN.
So, I guess what I am trying to say is that when you make certain AT/Classes/Specs etc... too good for teaming, every other choice becomes secondary and makes their teaming experience less than satisfactory. It could also explain why so many people "figuratively spit-on" healing in this game.
Sorry if that made no sense at all.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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Actually, I have found that Kinetics is fairly easy to solo. My primary experience is with an Illusion/Kin Controller, which may effect my reaction to it, but I have also played an Electric/Kin Corruptor, and I have to admit, I got bored with it because it was TOO easy. There was just nothing really that shone with it. |
Originally Posted by Biospark
Another powerset that I think falls into this category is Kinetics. This set is able to use 7 of 9 powers solo, but I think that we can all agree that it has some "issues" soloing. So I absolutely agree that Solo "Parity" is not as cut-and-dry as I may have presented it.
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I think the main thing is, while most Defender sets seem to concentrate on the defense in the solo oriented powers, Kin is a marked contrast in that it is pretty much an offense oriented set, and thus even solo you have mostly offense. You have damage, of course, as well as increased recharge with Siphon Speed and Transference for End. (Although not recovery) I think the biggest problem, if any, is the lateness of Transference and Fulcrum Shift.
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| When you model offensive boosts they reduce the length of combat, which reduces incoming damage. |
This is one of the reasons Detention Shield and Sonic Cage are so much a mixed blessing. In a team environment, where the mitigation is not needed, it actually extends the combat when the team is ready to move on. And solo, it provides protection while preventing you from acting against the foe you are protecting yourself against. PFF is similar.
It's a great power, but I think the reality is that few players want to pay the cost of spending increased time in combat, waiting on a foe that is of no danger to them. Of course, the same applies to Black Hole and Dimension Shift as well, but at least the cage powers have pinpoint accuracy.
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Hmm I looked at it again, and I only see 4 powers. Nullify Pain (AoE Heal), Soothing Aura (Healing Toggle), World of Pain (PBAoE buff), and Anguishing Cry (PBAoE debuff). The other powers require teammates, but a couple of them do provide benefits to the Corruptor, but if you cannot use them solo, I didn't count them.|
Originally Posted by Gilia
Well, I've played a Ice/Thermal Controller to 50 and a Necro/Pain Mastermind to 50. I just don't think they call for as much attention as Sonic Resonance :P.
I believe you forgot Suppress Pain/Soothing Aura on your count for Pain Domination. I base this on your number being one lower than my count and you didn't mention it when you talked about the level placement of solo powers. For Pain, all I'd really like to see is a wider radius World of Pain. It's already pretty big, so why not? This is my personal taste of course. The other thing I'd like to see is Anguishing Cry get a slight reduction in recharge time. Without IOs, it can only be up half the time. That's a ways behind most other sets' -res. I agree Pain Bringer getting some +recharge would have been nice. For Thermal, I really like how Forge works now. It's good off the bat and becomes awesome with more recharge. My only complaint for Thermal is similar to pain, which is that Heat Exhaustion and Melt Armor are so far from perma out of the box. Since Thermal has shields, heals, a rez, and some good buffs, I'm guessing the debuffs were given such high recharge intentionally to be a balance. "Fixing" Thermal would probably just make it too good. |
My Pain Dom hasn't reached a level to get the Debuff, but I certainly like the Soothing Aura. I do think that Anguishing Cry would be the power to adjust for helping Pain out, but not having played it yet, I cannot for certain say that. One other idea was to give status resistance in Soothing Aura similar to Accelerate Metabolism, but I would hate to fix every set's problems with status protection of some kind. In actuality, Pain dom having some kind of control power seems very thematic and dichotomistic (is that even a word) to Empathy. Anguishing Cry just sounds like something that should cause damage, fear or something else like stun or hold.
Thermal is a set that I have no clue really, since I don't play it. I would have to take everyone else's opinions. My only interjections on it are the ones that I have already made; that it needs something more for solo before level 35, and that I would probably do something offensive with it.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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With the addition of tip missions, I find that I can make use of the team only powers now as a solo player depending on the tip mission. |
Originally Posted by Biospark
How does that improve their Solo performance ? This is the subject of discussion.
Unless you are recommending making it an AoE damage power (which I kinda like the sound of), but how would that be different than what they did for FF some time ago ? Welcome to the discussion btw. |
I definitely am in favor of making it a minor radial AoE damage/-res effect with a knockdown component at an enemy target. Basically, if Liquefy recharge can't be lowered, this can fill the gap for Liquefy, and you can hold off using Liquefy at key moments.
FF's Repulsion bomb doesn't debuff, but rather has a chance for disorient. It also has a recharge of 30 seconds compared to what I am proposing with 60 seconds. Given what I am proposing (-res) I find 60 seconds reasonable. Surprisingly, it also only does smashing damage, while I propose a mix of smashing/energy damage. Finally, I think making it a knockdown would be better than a knock back like Repulsion bomb so it is friendly to use even on teams.
As for the Psi hole, I am leveling my AR/SON corruptor, and I face many enemies with Psi attacks villain side, but I don't feel weak going up against them to be honest. Most Psi enemies try to hold or immobilize, so I have that covered with the shield. Sleep is another hole, but since damage can break the sleep effect, and base line health in I19 helps with that a little bit, so it isn't a big deal either.
Clarity, given the presence of the shield, sneed to be re-examined though for Sonic Resonance, but I am not sure which direction to go.
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The problem with this is that if the intangibility doesn't affect the target due to rank the debuffs will still hit them.
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Originally Posted by Gilia
Give Sonic Cage -regen and possibly -recovery, so when you time out somebody they stay where they are until you get back to them.
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Hmmm...
You're talking about how someone using certain defender powersets are at a disadvantage because they cannot use some of their powers to affect their own gameplay while solo. Unfortunately, there's a very viable counter to all of this.
CONTROLLERS.
You know, those guys who get buffable pets at level 32? Or how about Masterminds, who get pets starting at level one? Wouldn't it be just a liiiittle over-powered for someone to be able to buff themselves AND their pet(s)? Controllers are suposed to be the ultimate team players, but if all their buffs and debuffs could be used solo, why would they EVER need a team? Especially with 2 or 3 times the killing power of their Defender brethren?
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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Turning Sonic Repulsion into a power similar to Forcefields Repulsion Bomb would be a good alternative to the other suggestions for the set. Although, I am not sure about whether this would be the best choice, since it would make the set even more "like" Forcefields than it already is.|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
With the addition of tip missions, I find that I can make use of the team only powers now as a solo player depending on the tip mission.
I definitely am in favor of making it a minor radial AoE damage/-res effect with a knockdown component at an enemy target. Basically, if Liquefy recharge can't be lowered, this can fill the gap for Liquefy, and you can hold off using Liquefy at key moments. FF's Repulsion bomb doesn't debuff, but rather has a chance for disorient. It also has a recharge of 30 seconds compared to what I am proposing with 60 seconds. Given what I am proposing (-res) I find 60 seconds reasonable. Surprisingly, it also only does smashing damage, while I propose a mix of smashing/energy damage. Finally, I think making it a knockdown would be better than a knock back like Repulsion bomb so it is friendly to use even on teams. As for the Psi hole, I am leveling my AR/SON corruptor, and I face many enemies with Psi attacks villain side, but I don't feel weak going up against them to be honest. Most Psi enemies try to hold or immobilize, so I have that covered with the shield. Sleep is another hole, but since damage can break the sleep effect, and base line health in I19 helps with that a little bit, so it isn't a big deal either. Clarity, given the presence of the shield, sneed to be re-examined though for Sonic Resonance, but I am not sure which direction to go. |
As far as clarity, the only suggestion so far is to add Psi Resist to this power, making Sonic able to provide Resist to ALL damage types through the stacking of three powers. Clarity seems rather redundant considering that the set has a Dispersion Bubble to provide status protection as well.
And many folks here are suggesting adding Sleep protection to both Forcefields and Sonic. This makes sense to me since these two powersets cannot heal. They cannot recover damage received while their protections are "suppressed". Having more universal protection from Mezz effects would shore up solo performance a little (from a defensive perspective) without adding too much power.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Quote:
Whether or not it's overpowered depends on how it was done. Being able to insulation shield yourself would be pretty overpowered. Giving yourself status resistance is not so much. Discussing where the proper balance lies is what is being done in this thread.|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
CONTROLLERS.
You know, those guys who get buffable pets at level 32? Or how about Masterminds, who get pets starting at level one? Wouldn't it be just a liiiittle over-powered for someone to be able to buff themselves AND their pet(s)? Controllers are suposed to be the ultimate team players, but if all their buffs and debuffs could be used solo, why would they EVER need a team? Especially with 2 or 3 times the killing power of their Defender brethren? |
As for them not needing to team, they already don't need to team if properly built. Same with all archetypes. And them having 2-3 times the killing power of defenders is a controller problem that should be addressed as such.
Quote:
Excellent point Garent !|
Originally Posted by Garent
Whether or not it's overpowered depends on how it was done. Being able to insulation shield yourself would be pretty overpowered. Giving yourself status resistance is not so much. Discussing where the proper balance lies is what is being done in this thread.
As for them not needing to team, they already don't need to team if properly built. Same with all archetypes. And them having 2-3 times the killing power of defenders is a controller problem that should be addressed as such. |
To Steele,
No one here has suggested that every power not currently usable solo needs to be changed. We all know that would be overpowered to the extreme. What I have said twice (three times now) is that in order to achieve greater solo parity across all defender powersets it would only take ONE reasonably thought out change to the powersets with the worst solo performance metrics in order to bump them up closer to the solo "median".
Examples of these changes are being given and discussed rationally. And I have to admit my own surprise that this "balance" concern is so simple to achieve without making each powerset alot stronger while teaming, which was one of the "core" themes in my original suggestions.
If you don't believe this kind of "think-tank" is worth discussing, or that anything at all needs to be done, that's cool. But there is no harm in discussion is there ?
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
If they incorporated some way of using the team anchored powers while solo, I'd be all for that. Each of them could unlock an enhanceable power with a 30 second recharge that disables the toggle for 30 seconds when used. The duration would be 30 seconds as well. I just wouldn't want to see the current mechanics removed. Being able to enhance the tank's ability to tank while increasing the survivability of the DPS squishy without ever dedicating animation time mid-battle is part of why I love S Resonance.
So, how do we get more AoE -res while solo without Sonic Disruption. This is one of the reasons why I feel Liquefy should be made more available. But since it is a Tier 9 power, waiting until 32 to become better solo seems...
deja vu (My first character to ever get to 32 was, yep, a controller).
I think having Sonic Siphon, Sonic Disruption AND Liquefy would be too much AoE -res.
What if Sonic Repulsion became an PBAoE knockback with -Res? It is available at level 18, which is kinda late as a debuff power, but considering how nice Sonic Dispersion is, this would be Ok for a soloer. What Duration on the debuff ? How strong should it be ? Because now we have three stacking -Res effects (one ally toggle, one long recharge placeable, and one PBAoE).
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF