Fort Hold Stacking Build viable anymore?
By
LuxunS,
Posted on: 2010-10-20 20:31 in Everything about PvP
Mag stacking in PvP is completely useless due to the removal of mez protection. One application will mez anyone for a short bit of time, after which they'll be in mez suppression.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Gotcha. I guess I could use the build for a boss/EB mezzer.....ugh. PvP FTL.
Ping me at @Psion or Psion2.
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Ok, so I have been gone for awhile . . . WTF? What idiot came up with this crap?
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Originally Posted by macskull
Mag stacking in PvP is completely useless due to the removal of mez protection. One application will mez anyone for a short bit of time, after which they'll be in mez suppression.
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The way mez works now, is the way it should be IMO. There is no toggle dropping anymore so anyone being held in one shot isnt broken, its balanced. Mez armors reduce the time you are mezzed, so tanks brutes stalkers and scrappers arent mezzed as long as others. The base mez durations in pvp are 4 seconds for controllers and doms, 2 seconds for everyone else. Enhanceable of course. Hold stacking and toggle dropping was horribly broken IMO.
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No toggle dropping, eh? My Storms, Colds, and Rads would like to have a word with you.|
Originally Posted by Syndace
The way mez works now, is the way it should be IMO. There is no toggle dropping anymore so anyone being held in one shot isnt broken, its balanced. Mez armors reduce the time you are mezzed, so tanks brutes stalkers and scrappers arent mezzed as long as others. The base mez durations in pvp are 4 seconds for controllers and doms, 2 seconds for everyone else. Enhanceable of course. Hold stacking and toggle dropping was horribly broken IMO.
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The new mez system is garbage. The only improvement over the old system is that a squishy doesn't need to carry a tray of Break Frees if they don't have an Emp/Sonic/Therm/Pain, but if you think that a 4-8 second mez you can do literally nothing about is balanced then I really don't have much else to say to you. In short, the people that thought mez stacking was broken either needed to figure out how to use inspirations, find the "invite to team" or "accept invite" buttons, or put more pressure on mezzers. Apparently these things were too hard, so now we're stuck with a system where powersets that rely on offensive toggles are largely worthless, a Stalker can hold a Tanker without having to do anything other than click one button, and a target can do literally nothing while they're mezzed except wait for it to wear off and hope they don't get mobbed before it does.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Maybe I missed something, but I was aware that mez's do not drop defensive toggles.. unless you are talking about total endurance drain.|
Originally Posted by macskull
No toggle dropping, eh? My Storms, Colds, and Rads would like to have a word with you.
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| The only improvement over the old system is that a squishy doesn't need to carry a tray of Break Frees if they don't have an Emp/Sonic/Therm/Pain, but if you think that a 4-8 second mez you can do literally nothing about is balanced then I really don't have much else to say to you. |
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| In short, the people that thought mez stacking was broken either needed to figure out how to use inspirations, find the "invite to team" or "accept invite" buttons, or put more pressure on mezzers. |
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| Apparently these things were too hard, so now we're stuck with a system where powersets that rely on offensive toggles are largely worthless, a Stalker can hold a Tanker without having to do anything other than click one button, and a target can do literally nothing while they're mezzed except wait for it to wear off and hope they don't get mobbed before it does. |
Just to be clear I am not trying to pick a battle with you, just stating my opinions as I happen to disagree with you :P Am I the only one here that sees the devs moving (very slowly) in the right direction with pvp?
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If you look at what you quoted, those are all sets with offensive toggles. |
Originally Posted by Syndace
Maybe I missed something, but I was aware that mez's do not drop defensive toggles.. unless you are talking about total endurance drain.
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Originally Posted by Syndace
Only doms/controllers can hold for 4-8 seconds and even then most people have acrobatics which cuts that time in half.
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Originally Posted by Syndace
Offensive toggles take a little more skill to use now.
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Originally Posted by Syndace
Am I the only one here that sees the devs moving (very slowly) in the right direction with pvp?
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Ahh I read what he typed wrong, ty. Offensive toggle dropping makes sense to me. I guess I play dota too much. :P|
Originally Posted by LuxunS
If you look at what you quoted, those are all sets with offensive toggles.
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I shouldn't have called it "skill" my bad. Timing my offensive toggles right by predicting a mez is just something I adapted to. I have a rad, and it is still very very good. I dunno you guys should give it a chance, you know you kind of like it otherwise you wouldnt be here.. right?
I can time my offensive toggles. I can predict a mez (because knowing that you'll get mezzed every 15 seconds isn't exactly hard, nor a prediction, but an observation of the way things are). I can't make my toggles recharge instantly so even if I'm hit with an instantaneous sleep (i.e. Mesmerize) I'm stuck waiting for a few seconds for my toggles to recharge and then another 3-5 seconds for those toggles to activate once they're recharged. At that point I'm already almost 2/3 of the way through the mez suppression window and I have done nothing to my opponent that entire time.
It's one thing when you can do something to avoid having your offensive toggles dropped, but it's another thing entirely when there is nothing at all you can do to prevent them from dropping short of avoiding fighting anything with mez.
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Probably. If you ignore concessions to players (i.e. options to turn off HD, TS, DR) the only positive PvP-related changes that have been made since I13 are the arena tweaks we got in I14, namely selectable maps. Unfortunately, while selectable maps is a nice feature and everyone's glad to have it, I don't know a single person who wouldn't give that feature up to have some semblance of pre-I13 PvP back.
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Originally Posted by Syndace
Am I the only one here that sees the devs moving (very slowly) in the right direction with pvp?
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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You do have a valid point, and I will agree it's annoying on a rad to fight a dom/controller. I have one solution. For those that don't know, toggles work by applying a buff/debuff over and over again in ticks. I know for those offensive toggles the ticks are pretty quick. If they made it to where the debuffs last a little longer and make the reapplication of the power in longer intervals.. the enemy could be debuffed for a duration of time after the offensive toggle wears off. This actually makes more sense to me in both pvp and pve. If you get mezzed, the enemy still has a duration of debuff applied. This at least gives you a chance to try and reapply the toggle. |
Originally Posted by macskull
I can time my offensive toggles. I can predict a mez (because knowing that you'll get mezzed every 15 seconds isn't exactly hard, nor a prediction, but an observation of the way things are). I can't make my toggles recharge instantly so even if I'm hit with an instantaneous sleep (i.e. Mesmerize) I'm stuck waiting for a few seconds for my toggles to recharge and then another 3-5 seconds for those toggles to activate once they're recharged. At that point I'm already almost 2/3 of the way through the mez suppression window and I have done nothing to my opponent that entire time.
It's one thing when you can do something to avoid having your offensive toggles dropped, but it's another thing entirely when there is nothing at all you can do to prevent them from dropping short of avoiding fighting anything with mez. Probably. If you ignore concessions to players (i.e. options to turn off HD, TS, DR) the only positive PvP-related changes that have been made since I13 are the arena tweaks we got in I14, namely selectable maps. Unfortunately, while selectable maps is a nice feature and everyone's glad to have it, I don't know a single person who wouldn't give that feature up to have some semblance of pre-I13 PvP back. |
Then again.. I'm not a dev and this would be considered something "minor" by them soooo yea.
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I'm with you on that. ^_^ I go in to zones/arena on PvE builds for a sonic/rad corr or a storm/dark defender. The way i offset the mez they put on me is to apply mez to them. It usually gives me the time i need to retoggle or back away and rethink things. |
Originally Posted by Syndace
Am I the only one here that sees the devs moving (very slowly) in the right direction with pvp?
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| Now the only useful inspiration is green. |
But i'm no hardcore PvP'er (for the moment). I don't like dealing with the immaturity of some folks in zone so i tend to stay to arena. If i do hit the zones i turn off broadcast or stay on a smaller server.
-X2-
@x2crunner and @x2crunner2
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Most people turn the heal decay crap off when doing matches...
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Originally Posted by x2crunner
With heal decay i dont see a point in a full tray of greens unless you pop them every 10 seconds.
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OLD SCHOOL PvP
Rad/Psi,Psi/Em,Fire/Em,Cld/Sonic,FF/Sonic,Grav/Ta,Storm/Psi,Sp/WP,Fire/Psi,Sonic/Pain
RIP:Southern Comfort PvP,PE PvP,INTEGRITY PvP,After School Special PvP Test SG's,TPvPL Season1+2 Runner ups
Why is the rum always gone???
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Oops. Forgot to specify zone in that comment. ^_^ My bad. But i've seen it off in zone too so i guess it can go any way.
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Originally Posted by Psyrene
Most people turn the heal decay crap off when doing matches...
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-X2-
@x2crunner and @x2crunner2
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heal decay is not able to be turned off when you are in a zone......
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Originally Posted by x2crunner
Oops. Forgot to specify zone in that comment. ^_^ My bad. But i've seen it off in zone too so i guess it can go any way.
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OLD SCHOOL PvP
Rad/Psi,Psi/Em,Fire/Em,Cld/Sonic,FF/Sonic,Grav/Ta,Storm/Psi,Sp/WP,Fire/Psi,Sonic/Pain
RIP:Southern Comfort PvP,PE PvP,INTEGRITY PvP,After School Special PvP Test SG's,TPvPL Season1+2 Runner ups
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I said i've "seen it off." Last night in fact, heal decay was not in effect on my stalker. *ponders* Well i had no icon in my auto powers and greens were for 100% if popped back to back. *shrugs and goes back to eating cheese sticks*
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Originally Posted by Psyrene
heal decay is not able to be turned off when you are in a zone......
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-X2-
@x2crunner and @x2crunner2
Diminishing returns aside, (Less concerned about defense because I have a Darkest Night/Gloom high def Fort build, I'm wondering if the hold stacking (via Procs) Fort build is viable any longer? I havent PVPed in quite awhile and can;t say I know how holds are currently handled, or if theyre even effective at shutting some AT's down if you can stackt he right mag.
For instance....the combo of Dominate w/ 2 Hold Procs + Total Domination w/ 1 Hold Proc- that was usually a 10 Magnitude at the least to start off with in a matter of 3 seconds when just 1 out of the 3 Hold Procs fired. Pretty nasty. 2 of them on a team could render my /Regen useless and burn a tray of break frees in a matter of minutes.
Those two coupled with Subdue w/ 2 hold procs, and a hold proc in Gloom and Mental Blast as well, and you would definitely have mag stacking extremely fast if you can get off your attack chain. Is this still effective, or useless due to the LOLness of current PvP?
Ping me at @Psion or Psion2.