Not another accuracy nerf thread! (I think I have a valid complaint, though)
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2010-10-18 05:41 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Rikti Drones have ridiculously high defense (for a non-AV status mob) naturally, so you're droping to 62% is about right.
They're the opposite of Rularuu Overseers, Overseers have enough to-hit to make defense meaningless while Rikti Drones have enough defense to make them a major annoyance.
My chance to hit was 40% though. And I should have more than 95% tohit against them before the tohit cap is applied.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Okay, so sou've got ~94% accuracy total.
The purple patch means your base to-hit against a +2 target is 56%. Normally, your final to-hit is 56 * 1.94 = 108.64%, capped at 95%.
The drones' 35% defense drops base to-hit from 56% to 21%. Your accuracy will raise that to 21 * 1.94 = 40.74%, which sounds like what you're seeing.
Yes, that's how I figured it was arriving at ~40%, but my understanding was that in the formula for players attacking critters, defense was still being applied after the accuracy mods, not before.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Quote:
Well, let's do the math... By hand.|
Originally Posted by Vanden
Did the ToHit formula change? My understanding of the ToHit formula changes from I7 was that the only matchup that would be affected was NPCs attacking players. Players attacking NPCs would be unaffected.
However, today I verified that the 35% defense of +2 Rikti Drones was dropping my normal 95% chance to hit +2 enemies down to 40%. I have 62.1% Accuracy enhancement in the power I tested with, plus another 32% from set bonuses, so I should have accuracy to spare, unless the formula's been changed since last I checked. Has it? |
You mention having 62.1% accuracy from enhancements and 32% from sets, so this gives you an accuracy base of 1.921, excluding power-specific boosts. What were you attacking with?
Against a +2 enemy, your base to-hit is 56%. A Rikti Drone with 35% defence would bring this down to 21% to-hit. It's still above the 5% floor, so we'll leave it as is.
Your final chance to hit would be 1.921*21%, which is 40.341% by my calculations. Provided you're using Super Strength like I think you are, and Super Strength has no inherent accuracy bonuses (outside of Knockout Blow), then "around 40%" sounds about right for those numbers.
*note*
Accuracy is a very poor solution to high levels of defence, because its actual effect diminishes as your to-hit before accuracy drops. From a base of 21% as Rikti Drones leave you, you'd need to increase your accuracy over four and a half times if you want to cap, meaning over 350% accuracy to hit 95% final chance to hit, which I don't think is reasonable. Get yourself some to-hit buffs, attack them with AoE (Drones have no defence to that) or debuff them somehow. Or just do what I do and keep trying to get lucky.
*edit*
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vanden
Yes, that's how I figured it was arriving at ~40%, but my understanding was that in the formula for players attacking critters, defense was still being applied after the accuracy mods, not before.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Quote:
So far as I'm aware the only real change that has ever been made to the hit formula was moving the position of the 5% floor to prevent accuracy from making negative to-hit more negative, which was sometime around I4-I5. I don't believe defense has ever been applied after accuracy for anyone; if it was, that was a very early change.|
Originally Posted by Vanden
Yes, that's how I figured it was arriving at ~40%, but my understanding was that in the formula for players attacking critters, defense was still being applied after the accuracy mods, not before.
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The I7 changes indeed had no effect on player vs critter attacks, because they only changes made were setting all critters to 50% base to-hit (at least up to +6) and converting rank- and level-based to-hit bonuses to accuracy bonuses. The actual mechanics of accuracy, defense, and to-hit were unaffected.
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To my knowledge, defense has never been applied after the accuracy mods. It hasn't changed, it just sounds like you had some bad information on how it always worked.
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Originally Posted by Vanden
Yes, that's how I figured it was arriving at ~40%, but my understanding was that in the formula for players attacking critters, defense was still being applied after the accuracy mods, not before.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Am i the only one who when i see some drones get my nukes out and shout YOU WONT MAKE A FOOL OUTTA ME AGAIN!!!!!
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
Quote:
To the best of my knowledge, the change you reference, what I've generally called the intermediate to hit floor, was put in on or just after I4 release. It was put in specifically because of the noticable effect of ultrahigh defense in PvP, but the change addressed this problem everywhere in the game, including things like MoGed PPs which created similar problems.|
Originally Posted by Wonderslug;
So far as I'm aware the only real change that has ever been made to the hit formula was moving the position of the 5% floor to prevent accuracy from making negative to-hit more negative, which was sometime around I4-I5. I don't believe defense has ever been applied after accuracy for anyone; if it was, that was a very early change.
The I7 changes indeed had no effect on player vs critter attacks, because they only changes made were setting all critters to 50% base to-hit (at least up to +6) and converting rank- and level-based to-hit bonuses to accuracy bonuses. The actual mechanics of accuracy, defense, and to-hit were unaffected. |
It is, as far as I know, the only algorithmic change to to hit calculations as players normally understand them. Technically, Issue 7 introduced a new set of accuracy factors for rank and level, but the mechanics of differing accuracy factors remained the same - namely that different accuracy factors multiply against net to hit after to hit buffs, debuffs, and the effects of defense. The only other change was the bug fix that properly implemented the "best factor" rule for defense (i.e. the defense type stacking bug).
For the record, though, the to hit formula obeys a 5%/95% bound both before and after accuracy factors. The reason is that even if the intermediate floor is enforced and that can get no lower than 5%, it's still possible for the final calculation to end up below 5% after accuracy because there are accuracy factors less than 1.0 - for example, some AoE mez powers have less than 1.0 intrinsic accuracy. So the bounds weren't moved, a new bounds before accuracy was added to the original bounds that was enforced after accuracy.
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Did the ToHit formula change? My understanding of the ToHit formula changes from I7 was that the only matchup that would be affected was NPCs attacking players. Players attacking NPCs would be unaffected.
However, today I verified that the 35% defense of +2 Rikti Drones was dropping my normal 95% chance to hit +2 enemies down to 40%. I have 62.1% Accuracy enhancement in the power I tested with, plus another 32% from set bonuses, so I should have accuracy to spare, unless the formula's been changed since last I checked. Has it?
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.