So, either it's so bad no one wants to comment on it, or it's solid enough that no one sees any significant improvements I could make.
If it's the second I can live with that.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I found mine to be very effective. I think the main issue is not a lot of tankers try to solo AV's so solid opinions may be a little more difficult to find. Maybe try the scrapper forums; they're familiar with the sets and AV soloing. I know Nihili solo'd a ton of AV's and the like with his DB/Inv scrapper, but I really don't know how it'd go on a tanker.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
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Already brought it up on the scrapper forums. Was specifically asking about recharge and such. |
Originally Posted by Starflier
I found mine to be very effective. I think the main issue is not a lot of tankers try to solo AV's so solid opinions may be a little more difficult to find. Maybe try the scrapper forums; they're familiar with the sets and AV soloing. I know Nihili solo'd a ton of AV's and the like with his DB/Inv scrapper, but I really don't know how it'd go on a tanker.
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Figured I'd ask here too to get a tanker's perspective. Any reason this build wouldn't be effective at tanking as well? It seems like it should be a good tanker, but agro control isn't exactly my forte, so i could be missing something.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Seems perfectly solid for tanking and survivability. The sweep combo, for which you're missing two attacks, would be helpful for group tanking with its aoe knockdown, as is OTC for the same reason, but you should be good to go with what you've got. Good tanking is more playstyle that powersets anyways.
More damage out of Nimble, Ablating, and Typhoon would be good since the first two will be heavily used in AV fights, but I understand the need for set bonuses as well.
Any plans for after inherent fitness rolls around?
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
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Well, I did put the Hecatomb proc in Nimble Slash for that exact reason. I figured since I will be using it so much that would be a good place for a proc. |
Originally Posted by Starflier
More damage out of Nimble, Ablating, and Typhoon would be good since the first two will be heavily used in AV fights, but I understand the need for set bonuses as well. |
The only real reason I took Typhoon's Edge at all was for the Weaken combo, whihc will help keep me alive before my defenses really mature (Weaken has a -damage component to it), it will probably be used very seldom at higher levels. I'm pretty good at leveraging melee cones, so Sweeping Strike should cover that nicely.
I really haven't figured out what I'm going to do once Fitness is inherent. Maybe I'll pick up a couple of teh attacks I skipped in this build, dunno yet.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I used Weaken early on with my Inv/DB for the -tohit/-def. It's nice because it's an AoE effect and helps out in a few areas where lowbie characters struggle. It's definitely something that gets phased out later on when you pick up your better attacks.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
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Yeah, you can stop using that combo, but that doesn't mean you can drop the attacks, unless you've decided not to bother with combos at all. Dropping either Ablating Strike or Typhoon's Edge will lock you out of some/most of the combos.|
Originally Posted by Starflier
I used Weaken early on with my Inv/DB for the -tohit/-def. It's nice because it's an AoE effect and helps out in a few areas where lowbie characters struggle. It's definitely something that gets phased out later on when you pick up your better attacks.
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I'd definitely plan to pick up PS and OTC; the Sweep combo is probably the best of the bunch. Without it and OTC your AoE damage is going to be pretty pathetic.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Hey Claws, for what it's worth, I have no doubts that you can solo an AV with this build.
Just for the hell of it, I tried soloing a few AVs with my DA/fire tank as is. You know most of the build. It is not specced nearly as offensively as yours is, and can only stack 1/3 of the -resistance that you can. With that tank, I've been able to overcome regen and damage even level AVs (specifically, Synapse, Arakhn, Mynx, Countess Crey). My problem is that my single target attack chain was not built to be infinitely sustainable. Without Recovery Serums or a tray full of blues or empowerment buffs or any combination of those things, I won't be able to "solo" any AVs as built.
The recovery to sustain your attack chain is paramount to success. You can do enough damage, that much I'm sure of.
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I'd suggest making a few changes to your attack chain - though you shouldn't need to change the build much.
BF->AV takes 5.86 seconds to complete. You can roll through almost two of those before your bruising effect wears off. So, instead of NS->BF->AS->VS->SS->repeat, try NS->BF->AS->VS->SS->BF->AS->VS->SS->repeat. You'll do better DPS, and only lose the bruised effect (in a perfectly seamless attack chain that doesn't account for movement, dull pain, etc.) on the nimble slash, which is not that great an attack anyway.
I would shift the Hecatomb proc to BF over NS, if you were going to run that chain. Just an opinion, mind.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!
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I went with the attack chain I did because I don't have the recharge necessary to run Blinding Feint-Attack Vitals back to back, which the chain you suggest would require. |
Originally Posted by Smersh
I'd suggest making a few changes to your attack chain - though you shouldn't need to change the build much.
BF->AV takes 5.86 seconds to complete. You can roll through almost two of those before your bruising effect wears off. So, instead of NS->BF->AS->VS->SS->repeat, try NS->BF->AS->VS->SS->BF->AS->VS->SS->repeat. You'll do better DPS, and only lose the bruised effect (in a perfectly seamless attack chain that doesn't account for movement, dull pain, etc.) on the nimble slash, which is not that great an attack anyway. |
In order to get the recharge I would need, I'd have to either A) Spend way more money than I have available, or B) short some of my defenses.
I'm good at making builds to do specific things on shoestring budgets, and that's what I did here as well. I'm planning on using Hero merits to get the expensive Kinetic Combat pieces.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Use hero merits to buy more expensive IOs, then sell them to get Kinetic Combats. Most are worth about 2/3 to 1/2 of the more expensive IOs. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I went with the attack chain I did because I don't have the recharge necessary to run Blinding Feint-Attack Vitals back to back, which the chain you suggest would require.
In order to get the recharge I would need, I'd have to either A) Spend way more money than I have available, or B) short some of my defenses. I'm good at making builds to do specific things on shoestring budgets, and that's what I did here as well. I'm planning on using Hero merits to get the expensive Kinetic Combat pieces. |
I've solo'd a number of AVs on my WP/KM. With that much -resist your only problem is going to be endurance. Hopefully with two performance shifters etc. you won't have issues, but as KM my end still goes down gradually due to hasten and using concentrated strike. I don't have stamina though, so you might be OK.
Active (Freedom): Setna (Ice/Psi Dom), Arram (WP/KM Tank), Tesmiel (Elec/SS Tank), Astredax (Robot/Dark Mastermind), Operative Vidali (melee fortunata)
Retired (Virtue): Gaav (Inv/EM Tank), Baqra (Fire/SS Tank)
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I was planning on leveraging Conserve Power to help me get through them. |
Originally Posted by Tsuji
I've solo'd a number of AVs on my WP/KM. With that much -resist your only problem is going to be endurance. Hopefully with two performance shifters etc. you won't have issues, but as KM my end still goes down gradually due to hasten and using concentrated strike. I don't have stamina though, so you might be OK. |
I have no idea how sustainable it will be, because the character itself is only level 13 at the moment, this is a long term project.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Well, I don't think you're going to be killing the AVs before conserve power wears off. I used to use conserve power to solo AVs on my Inv/EM back when you could six slot Dam/Acc HOs and have a massive damage bonus, and also had perma hasten/super fast ET and it still usually took me 3 or 4 cycles of conserve power to kill an AV.
I think, if your current chain drains end in your final build, you should also come up with another chain that's low end use. I have the strategy on this WP tanker that I use strength of will for end recovery and go all out while that's up, then when it's down I conserve end by just using the first 3 attacks, which go slow enough to let me regain end but as far as I can tell just barely stops AV regen.
Active (Freedom): Setna (Ice/Psi Dom), Arram (WP/KM Tank), Tesmiel (Elec/SS Tank), Astredax (Robot/Dark Mastermind), Operative Vidali (melee fortunata)
Retired (Virtue): Gaav (Inv/EM Tank), Baqra (Fire/SS Tank)
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Didn't expect to. |
Originally Posted by Tsuji
Well, I don't think you're going to be killing the AVs before conserve power wears off.
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My build is almost endurance sustainable as it is, it will drain slowly through the course of a fight. All I need Conserve Power for is for when my end starts getting low, it will let my recovery fill my end bar back up, at which point it will start slowly draining again after Conserve Power wears off.
I used the same tactic with my Broadsword/Dark Armor AV soloing scrapper and it worked beautifully.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I don't know how fast you'll go through end, but if it worked on a broadsword it ought the work on a tank I guess. The only thing I can think of that might be an issues is your build doesn't have much recharge, but even then I'm sure you can tone down your strikes for a while if it ends up being an issue, it looks like you've got most of the attacks from dual blades anyway. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Didn't expect to.
My build is almost endurance sustainable as it is, it will drain slowly through the course of a fight. All I need Conserve Power for is for when my end starts getting low, it will let my recovery fill my end bar back up, at which point it will start slowly draining again after Conserve Power wears off. I used the same tactic with my Broadsword/Dark Armor AV soloing scrapper and it worked beautifully. |
Make sure you post about it when you've killed something, I want to know how long it takes a DB able to stack all that -resist.
Active (Freedom): Setna (Ice/Psi Dom), Arram (WP/KM Tank), Tesmiel (Elec/SS Tank), Astredax (Robot/Dark Mastermind), Operative Vidali (melee fortunata)
Retired (Virtue): Gaav (Inv/EM Tank), Baqra (Fire/SS Tank)
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I already established that I have enough recharge to run Nimble Slash-Blinding Feint-Attack Vitals combo nonstop. |
Originally Posted by Tsuji
The only thing I can think of that might be an issues is your build doesn't have much recharge, but even then I'm sure you can tone down your strikes for a while if it ends up being an issue
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I DON'T have enough to run Blinding Feint-Attack Vitals back to back, but since I'm using Nimble Slash for the -res anyway, it reduces my recharge requirements.
I'll be sure to let you know when I drop an AV with the build. I don't have much time to play due to the recent birth of my son, so it's going to be a while (this particular tank is only level 12 at the moment)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Hahah I meant recharge for the purposes of conserve power, not your attack chain. I was assuming your scrapper had a ton of recharge since most av soloers I've seen have crazy amounts of recharge.
Active (Freedom): Setna (Ice/Psi Dom), Arram (WP/KM Tank), Tesmiel (Elec/SS Tank), Astredax (Robot/Dark Mastermind), Operative Vidali (melee fortunata)
Retired (Virtue): Gaav (Inv/EM Tank), Baqra (Fire/SS Tank)
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Nope, my scrapper didn't have much recharge either. When you softcap a BS/DA the first thing that goes is recharge. My attack chain consisted of "whatever happens to be up when I go to hit a power". |
Originally Posted by Tsuji
Hahah I meant recharge for the purposes of conserve power, not your attack chain. I was assuming your scrapper had a ton of recharge since most av soloers I've seen have crazy amounts of recharge.
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It worked out pretty good though. It takes him about 3-3.5 minutes to drain his end bar, and Conserve Power is recharged by then. I usually popped it when I had about 1/5th of the bar left. He soloed some AVs, but it was NOT a quick process.
I'm anticipating much the same with my tank, except I already know I can run a consistent chain with him. Since survivability is going to pretty much be a given I can, focus on damage output on my tank. I chose the chain I did because A) It doesn't need ANY global recharge to run (the most I need in anything is 71% recharge) and B) It has the potential to stack up to 60% -res between Bruising and the two procs (I need to start saving for the PvP IO though)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Oh that's cool, I didn't realize the end drain was so manageable. Is there any reason you didn't use parry instead of softcapping though? DPS chain or something?
Active (Freedom): Setna (Ice/Psi Dom), Arram (WP/KM Tank), Tesmiel (Elec/SS Tank), Astredax (Robot/Dark Mastermind), Operative Vidali (melee fortunata)
Retired (Virtue): Gaav (Inv/EM Tank), Baqra (Fire/SS Tank)
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I DID use Parry...that's how I softcapped. I did it positionally instead of typed. |
Originally Posted by Tsuji
Oh that's cool, I didn't realize the end drain was so manageable. Is there any reason you didn't use parry instead of softcapping though? DPS chain or something?
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As far as I know, the only sets that can do that with DA are the Sword sets (BS and Kat)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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OK, we're getting way off tanker discussion but I'm pretty curious about parry. I have it on my only scrapper (regen) and I'm pretty sure I've self capped melee def before without using IOs or anything. Are you using it less often so further increase your damage or did it change or am I just totally confused and wrong?
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I DID use Parry...that's how I softcapped. I did it positionally instead of typed.
As far as I know, the only sets that can do that with DA are the Sword sets (BS and Kat) |
Active (Freedom): Setna (Ice/Psi Dom), Arram (WP/KM Tank), Tesmiel (Elec/SS Tank), Astredax (Robot/Dark Mastermind), Operative Vidali (melee fortunata)
Retired (Virtue): Gaav (Inv/EM Tank), Baqra (Fire/SS Tank)
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I acquired enough melee defense through powers and IOs that I only needed to double stack it to softcap melee defense. It hurts my DPS, but being dead hurts it more. |
Originally Posted by Tsuji
OK, we're getting way off tanker discussion but I'm pretty curious about parry. I have it on my only scrapper (regen) and I'm pretty sure I've self capped melee def before without using IOs or anything. Are you using it less often so further increase your damage or did it change or am I just totally confused and wrong?
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My scrapper's DPS is actually pretty low due to my use of Parry and low recharge, but both of those things contributed to my build being endurance sustainable, so it was really a wash.
If my DPS were higher it would be because my recharge was higher. If my recharge were higher my end would bottom out because I'd be attacking more frequently. I can solo AVs with him if I consistently hit with Parry, but it takes me longer than high recharge builds.
I'm basically taking what I learned with that scrapper and applying it to my tank. On paper it looks like it will work out about the same, but the tank will have higher survivability.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Ah ok, that's cool. I guess without the end drain from DM it might be harder to keep yourself fighting after using dark regen on one target, especially if you have hasten crashes to deal with too. So it's kind of like throttling your damage to make sure you don't run out of gas.
By the same do you mean similar dps or just that both can solo AVs?
Also I guess we should have done this through PMs, since we're the only ones left here haha...
Active (Freedom): Setna (Ice/Psi Dom), Arram (WP/KM Tank), Tesmiel (Elec/SS Tank), Astredax (Robot/Dark Mastermind), Operative Vidali (melee fortunata)
Retired (Virtue): Gaav (Inv/EM Tank), Baqra (Fire/SS Tank)
Here's the build I have planned out for my Invuln/Dual Blades tank that I wanted to try and spec for AV soloing.
)
Why Dual Blades? Because it can potentially stack 60% -res on a single target running an attack chain of Nimble Slash-Blinding Feint-Attack Vitals combo. There's the automatic -20% from Bruising, you can slot an Achille's Chance for -Res in Ablating Strike, and you can put a Fury of the Gladiator Chance for -Res in Sweeping Strike (IF you can afford it).
I have discovered through my own research, that while none of those things will stack with itself, they all WILL stack with each other for a potential -60% resistance for a good portion of an AV fight (an AV fight will NOT be short with a tank, there's a good chance you will stack all 3 more than once during it)
I was planning on playing to Invuln's strengths on the AVs I was planning on taking on, mostly aiming for heavy smashing/lethal using AVs and avoiding Psi users.
Here's the build I have planned out, any obvious flaws I need to rectify? I didn't put the Fury of the Gladiator proc in the build because there is no way I can afford one (Unless some generous soul wants to donate one
Pretty standard Invuln slotting, capped S/L resists, softcapped to S/L/E/N with one in range of Invincibility, decent end recovery (should be sustainable if I leverage Conserve Power in long fights), and better than average regen.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Dual Blades
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(40), Aegis-Psi/Status(40), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(40)
Level 1: Nimble Slash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Knock%(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(13), Hectmb-Dam%(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(3), RctvArm-ResDam(5), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 4: Ablating Strike -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Knock%(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(43), Mako-Acc/Dmg(45), Achilles-ResDeb%(48)
Level 6: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Dct'dW-Heal(25), Dct'dW-Rchg(25)
Level 8: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(15)
Level 10: Taunt -- Insult-Taunt(A), Insult-Taunt/Rchg(11), Insult-Dsrnt%(11)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 14: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 16: Typhoon's Edge -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(17), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(19), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(19), LkGmblr-Rchg+(34), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(45), Rec'dRet-ToHit(45)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21)
Level 22: Blinding Feint -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(23), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Mako-Dam%(48)
Level 24: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(27)
Level 28: Vengeful Slice -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(29), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Mako-Dam%(50)
Level 30: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(31), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(31), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 32: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(33), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Sweeping Strike -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(36), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(36), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(37), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 38: Resist Elements -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(39), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(39), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Resist Energies -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(42), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), P'Shift-End%(48)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 2: Ninja Run
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.