In my opinion...it's Regen's tradeoff.
It can be unkillable...but it takes into account, so many things.
Human reaction speed
recharge
slows
lag
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I assure you, Tanks can do everything a Regen can and then some. If you survived while your tank was dead, I would think the difference in aggro was the cause of that more than who has a stronger defensive capability. Though that Tank just might have been poorly built. |
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
I play tanks quite a lot, and I don't think they can do what the regen scrapper can do. I'm wondering if other kinds of scrappers are this insanely durable. If so I may need to play more of them.
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And yes, you can do some crazy things on Scrappers. You can make some of the other secondaries do things a Regen wouldn't even attempt without a billion+ in IOs invested.
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Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
He just can't die.
I mean, he *can*, but he doesn't, as long as I'm paying attention and my reflexes are up to the task. |
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Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
Is this normal for scrappers?
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A friend of mine asked for build advice on her /SR to increase her survivability. I took a look and it was really similar to my own, but she died occasionally where I had a reputation for being nigh-unkillable. The best I could tell her was "Pay attention and eat inspirations, you seem to be doing everything else right."
Frequent boards reader, once-in-a-blue moon poster.
Many sets are this way, and at high level Regen is actually quite a bit squishier than many others. My 50 BS/Shield scrapper can do things and survive things that would make my 50 BS/Regen into a grease spot on the floor.
After playing three scrappers to 50, a BS/Regen, a Spine/Regen and a BS/Shield I'll say that all three are quite competent and capable. Still, Shield is a lot tougher at the high end... Regen's good but it's highly dependent on reaction time and having your clickies available when you need them... a half second usually makes the difference between success and faceplant.
My latest build on my BS/Regen adds roughly 25% defense to Ranged/AOE and 40% to Melee (with Parry of course) and it's getting highly survivable. I had to dump a BUNCH of inf on him to get to that point though and he's still lagging behind my BS/Shield in durability and damage output.
For what it's worth my experience has been that in the low levels Regen's a fantastic set; probably the best of the bunch. As you progress the other sets mature and pull even, then by the end game several pull ahead.
All in all I think you can sum up your statement by replacing "high level Regen" with "high level Scrapper"; most of them seem to get pretty competent once they mature.
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Yeah. I've been away for awhile, and my offhand knowledge of the game isn't what it used to be -- but it sure seems like Regen has the least upside of the Scrapper secondaries. And that's fine if true; Regen is very easy to level, after all, and it performs pretty well at the level cap even without a single IO.|
Originally Posted by Stupid_Fanboy
I assure you, Tanks can do everything a Regen can and then some. If you survived while your tank was dead, I would think the difference in aggro was the cause of that more than who has a stronger defensive capability. Though that Tank just might have been poorly built.
And yes, you can do some crazy things on Scrappers. You can make some of the other secondaries do things a Regen wouldn't even attempt without a billion+ in IOs invested. |
But the complaint that Regen is more survivable than anything else -- especially Tankers -- is at least four years out of date. Regen's maximum capacity (including IOs and whatnot) seems not only lower than most everything else's; Regen also seems to have more glaring situational holes than a lot of other sets (-recharge, -regeneration, -DEF, -RES). That's a little amusing, given that consistency used to be Regen's greatest strength -- the Regen trait most often complained about, especially by the predominantly Invuln-using Tanker constituency.
Meanwhile, Invuln has gained considerable -DEF debuff resistance, decent endurance-drain and recharge/slow debuff resistance, and it gains indirectly from the predominance of IO +DEF bonuses. I'm not trying to say that Invuln doesn't have its burdens to bear too, but I'd say that Regen's weaknesses are roughly on par with Invuln's much-bemoaned weakness to psionic damage (which also penetrates Moment of Glory, and often carries hefty recharge debuffs, incidentally).
Tankers of all stripes have a night-and-day survivability advantage over Regen Scrappers.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I just got to jump in and say one of the big things about regen is when you do survive and crazy fight, you feel more super cause (ussually) the reason you lived is cause of you the player. Does anyone else feel this way? Going way into the red and pulling yourself back from the brink is a rush, other sets are less intense. (at least sometimes) Anyway thats my 2 inf for now.
Current 50's DM egen scrapper and stonestone tank
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Maybe it's the tankers I play. Most of my Dark tank's defenses come from mitigation, and she needs to stop next to enemies in order to heal. My Ice tank can handle anything except hordes -- throw enough enemies at him and the streakbreaker will force them to hit and take him down. He would not have survived that council base. Defense debuffs are also a concern, and these days they are very common. I've gotten invuln tanks to the mid-20s. I would list their vulnerabilities as psi, -def, and endurance drain, any of which are fatal.|
Originally Posted by Obitus
But the complaint that Regen is more survivable than anything else -- especially Tankers -- is at least four years out of date.
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| Regen also seems to have more glaring situational holes than a lot of other sets (-recharge, -regeneration, -DEF, -RES). |
Maybe part of this is the 'take out the problem' defense. Tanks can't take out the most dangerous opponents as quickly as a scrapper can.
I wish I could get into Shield and SR, but I hate click mez protection. I have a level 30 Kat/Fire scrapper, but he's all offense and I don't expect miracles from him. I'll have to shop around for another kind of scrapper that plays as wonderfully as my regen guy.
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Hold left-ctrl, left-click on said click power to make it automatically refresh when it's up.|
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
I wish I could get into Shield and SR, but I hate click mez protection.
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With two recharge SOs (possibly one depending on global recharge), it's permanent.
Never consciously think about it again.
Frequent boards reader, once-in-a-blue moon poster.
MA/REG was my first toon I ever made, and one of my two 50s. But, I didn't have the enjoyment out of him as you did..
I always forgot I had powers that needed to be clicked , which is near all of Regen. I got him to I think 37 before making another toon, which I just loved and got to 50 in about a month or less. Then I went back and respecced my scrapper because having all the attacks and slots spreaded out between them is not a good idea, heh. Slowly got him to 50, where I had to respec again .. because I got sick of him, and never got all the recharge I wanted because I suck at the market.
I'm happy to hear you like your MA/REG scrapper, hope you continue through as die less often!
@War-Nugget
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Originally Posted by Wavicle
CoH players are stupid and incompetent compared to WoW players.
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I have a Kinetic Melee/Regen scrapper and like him very much. I agree with most of what you said, Moment of Glory and the heals make for a very tough toon. I've played tanker on teams lacking them and done very well at it.
That said the tankers are right, tankers are better at soaking up damage then any scrapper (its what they are built for). Scrappers can survive and at times out perform a tanker but tankers are still better at it.
Sappers are deadly to Regen I've found. I can counter them with Moment of Glory but if I don't have that they take my endurance, shut down my toggles and hold me; then I am done for.
However for most enemies with 2000+ HP (from Dull Pain), 100+ heal per second (instant healing), and Moment of Glory when needed a regen scrapper can come through where others would fall.
I'd like to make a regen toon, but I hear all this stuff about regen needing alot of clicks to work and such. Resutling in low DPS. Is this really the case? Will the DPS of a regen be measureably less than other secondaries?
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Hmmm... I would say that depends. Most of the clicks are pre-battle for me (Dull Pain 120 seconds and Instant Healing 90 seconds) The only click in battle are Reconstruction (the regen self heal) and Moment of Glory (pretty much invulnerable for 15 seconds. So I would say that for the most part once in battle you are using attacks only with the occasional heal or popping of moment of glory so the answer would be no. However if you need to activate Dull Pain and/or Instant Healing while in the midst of battle (forgot to activate, inconvenient timing, or long battles) then yes your DPS may suffer. However all the activation times are 1 second or less for these except for Moment of Glory that is 2.5 seconds.
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Originally Posted by JohnX
I'd like to make a regen toon, but I hear all this stuff about regen needing alot of clicks to work and such. Resutling in low DPS. Is this really the case? Will the DPS of a regen be measureably less than other secondaries?
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It's normal for Scrappers if you know what you're doing. It's normal for Regens if you REALLY know what you're doing.
My Regen is the least survivable of my three IO'd out AV soloing Scrappers.
And yes, well-built Tanks can survive everything well-built Regens can and much much more. If they're not well-built, all bets are off.
Yes, the DPS of a Regen will necessarily be less than some other secondaries. Slightly less. I'd say it's similar to having click mez protection. Not an issue of any importance unless it just annoys you to be not attacking for a second every now and then, unless it's interfering with your Scrapper-lock.
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"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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With my /shield scrapper who is soft capped to Melee/Ranged and about 43% to AOE, yes, it's normal for her not to take damage on anything and she can pretty much 'stealth' a mission by just ninja run/sprint and running through full mobs of whatever they might be. No appreciable damage gets through to her.
For my Willpower Tank, the idea of being invulnerable is basically attained. She has capped defences, 100 hp/s regen with just 1 enemy nearby (I think approximately 150 with a normal size spawn around her), 70% smashing lethal resist.... the list goes on. AFK in any mob? okay.
I have looked at /regen scrappers before but when I compare their 'regen' to my Willpower they can't even hold a candle to it, especially not when the Willpower tank has layers and layers of other protection in there.
...still I kind of want to play a /regen. Do all the clicks cause redraw?
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Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
...still I kind of want to play a /regen. Do all the clicks cause redraw?
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Yep, they do. It's funny, but back in the day we all thought redraw was lowering our DPS and come to find out that the redraw time was hard coded into the powers and it didn't matter.
Of course shortly after that was revealed animations were changed to speed up attacks and now the redraw delay that we complained about when it didn't have any effect suddenly has the effect we always thought it did.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
I don't play Scrappers often, but I've had a MA/Regen that I've been quietly levelling when I feel like kicking bad guys in the face. He just made level 47, and I've begun to notice something.
He just can't die.
I mean, he *can*, but he doesn't, as long as I'm paying attention and my reflexes are up to the task. A low-level stream of damage comes at me, I hit Reconstruction. More damage? Dull Pain. A Boss knocks me to red health in one hit? Moment of Glory. The combat looks like it's going to last awhile and Reconstruction can't keep up? Instant healing. By the time any of these emergency buttons wear off, one of the others is recharged again.
And if I take an inspiration I can do truly crazy things.
The other night I was on a PuG tips team that had no coordination, and they accidentally pulled most of the inhabitants of a council base. Everyone else, including the tank, died in minutes. My scrapper continued fighting, long enough for some of the rest of my team to run back from the hospital, die again, and run back *again*. I did eventually fall because I queued up the wrong power and reached for a drink of water without noticing -- pilot error.
Last night I went on a LGTF. We had no stealthers, so at the final mission I volunteered to run in and Assemble everyone in the final room. I ran through -- no superspeed, mind you -- a huge mission full of Rikti, getting hit by barrages of psi and energy blasts. I had one tight spot when I went down a dead end, but other than that it was easy. (I should note that I'm pretty sure our empath hit me with Fortitude, which lasted about halfway through the run.)
Is this normal for scrappers? Is this normal for a high-level regen?
I play tanks quite a lot, and I don't think they can do what the regen scrapper can do. I'm wondering if other kinds of scrappers are this insanely durable. If so I may need to play more of them.
...
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