Attack chain tutorial?


Ang_Rui_Shen

 

Posted

I have tried searching for threads about this with no luck. I am looking for information on how to calculate needed recharge times and DPS.

Total attack chain time seems simple, but threads I've read have different numbers. Here is what I think I know:

Attack 1 Activation Time + Attack 2 Activation Time + Attack 1 Activation Time + Attack 3 Activation Time = Total attack chain time


Recharge times seem simple, but only if you get the total attack chain time correct.

Base Recharge Time / Shortest Time Between Using Attack - 1 = Needed Recharge


DPS is simple again, but the total attack chain time has to be correct.

Damage 1 + Damage 2 + Damage 1 + Damage 3
________________________________________

Total Attack Chain Time



Can anyone fill me in on what I'm missing for the total attack chain times?


 

Posted

Re: the Cast times

You've got to factor in Arcanatime too in order to see the true cast time of each power.

=((ROUNDUP(CAST/0.132,0))+1)*0.132

what's that mean? Divide the cast time by 0.132. Round that up to the next whole number and add 1. Then multiply by 0.132 and that's the real cast time you'll see ingame.

Modify your attacks like that first, and then you can look at the length of the chain.

Re: the Recharge times

Once you do that, you can figure out the recharge you need in each attack to make the chain work.


Say you're Claws and you want to run this:

Follow Up
Focus
Slash
Strike.

How much recharge do you need in each one?

Add up the cast times of all the other attacks in the chain to see how fast a particular attack needs to recharge in.

So for Focus, it needs to recharge in the same time that Follow Up, Slash and Strike take to animate.

Let's say those attacks take 4 seconds to animate. Then you do this.

(base recharge of attack) / (cast times of other attacks) -1 = recharge buff you need in the attack.

So if Focus recharges normally in 6 seconds, then we do (6/4)-1 = .5. You would need 50% worth of recharge buffs in Focus to make it fit in this chain.

Do that for all your attacks in the chain and you'll see if the chain works and how many buffs you need to gather to make it work.


Spreadsheets help out immensely. Let me know if this made sense.


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Posted

Thanks. I had never heard of Arcanatime.


 

Posted

Has anyone worked up a spreadsheet for this?


 

Posted

I would imagine that the Rogue's Gallery of minmaxxers that spend a lot of time in the Pylon soloing thread have their own versions. I tend to make one on the fly when I need it, which is rarely since I don't normally spend time in attack chain calculations.


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Posted

Here's one of my spreadsheets with some sample builds and how I calculated DPS, endurance use, required recharge, and so on for them. Also a bit of explanation of how I calculate damage for each attack. There may be some errors here and there. Martial Arts is obviously incomplete. Some of the numbers may also be out of date, as this is from several issues ago.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupid_Fanboy View Post
Re: the Cast times

You've got to factor in Arcanatime too in order to see the true cast time of each power.

=((ROUNDUP(CAST/0.132,0))+1)*0.132

what's that mean? Divide the cast time by 0.132. Round that up to the next whole number and add 1. Then multiply by 0.132 and that's the real cast time you'll see ingame.
Why doesn't the game and MIDS just update the cast times to these values?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarknessEternal View Post
Why doesn't the game and MIDS just update the cast times to these values?
The numbers shown by the game and mid's are correct for those powers. The issue is that due to the mechanics of the interface between the user and the server there is some additional delay time that explains the descrepency between what is reported by in game numbers and actual observation. Arcanaville wrote up a long discussion of this (thus the term 'arcanatime'. I believe she has a link in her sig.

I think it'd make practical sense for arcanatime to be reported by mid's in addition to real numbers. But if you're going to only desplay 1 cast time, it should be the real number as, that's the value that's reported by all official sources whenever there's an update.


I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.

 

Posted

Mid's v1.81 does have an Arcanatime checkbox under Options >> Configuration >> Effects & Maths.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey View Post
The numbers shown by the game and mid's are correct for those powers. The issue is that due to the mechanics of the interface between the user and the server there is some additional delay time that explains the descrepency between what is reported by in game numbers and actual observation. Arcanaville wrote up a long discussion of this (thus the term 'arcanatime'. I believe she has a link in her sig.

I think it'd make practical sense for arcanatime to be reported by mid's in addition to real numbers. But if you're going to only desplay 1 cast time, it should be the real number as, that's the value that's reported by all official sources whenever there's an update.
The repost of the original article on "ArcanaTime" is here.

The reason why Real Numbers doesn't report this time is, besides the fact that Real Numbers was coded before the invention of Arcanatime, the real cast time is also important to know. Arcanatime is only strictly speaking useful for attack chain calculations. But when it comes to things like computing recharge, its still the case (so far as we know) that powers begin recharging after their *cast time* expires, not when arcanatime expires. Especially because Arcanatime isn't a true time window that can "expire" but rather a measure of how fast the game servers can process attack commands from the players even if lag is reduced to zero (which it is if you queue attacks fast enough - the power gets queued on the server and thus no network lag is experienced between one power activation and the next).


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Posted

Arcanaville,

As per this post based on what you're stating here, followup/focus/slash should only need 283% recharge in FU to be pauseless rather than the 313% I had been using based on the understanding that recharge also started at the end of arcanatime.

I believe that every bit of testing I've done with claws showed a pause with anything less than the 313%, so my confusion here is wide open. Please explain.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
Arcanaville,

As per this post based on what you're stating here, followup/focus/slash should only need 283% recharge in FU to be pauseless rather than the 313% I had been using based on the understanding that recharge also started at the end of arcanatime.

I believe that every bit of testing I've done with claws showed a pause with anything less than the 313%, so my confusion here is wide open. Please explain.
I can't explain. Most of my tests have been consistent with recharge starting after cast time expiration not arcanatime expiration, including attack looping (using the same attack over and over again and measuring total cycle time). I'll have to investigate further (although I'll continue the discussion in the other thread where it makes more sense to do so).


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