Scrapper or Brute Dm/Fire?

Hey all, so I'm really needing some help being sold on which AT to roll this combo with, lol and for the life of me I really just can't decide!! I've always wanted to make a Dm/Fire combo, and prior to Scrappers getting Fire Armor, my only option would have been a Brute...however, that's not the case anymore since Scrappers have full access to FA now as well.


So...I'm trying to decide...which would end up better, even if only slightly better, by level 50 with Patrons/APP's considered? For this toon, I'm really looking for solid high damage figures by the high levels, on top of at least adequate survivability. I realize that "supposedly" Brute damage is very close to or similar to Scrapper damage once they get rolling...but is that really true? When I compare the two AT's primaries side-by-side, it looks like the Scrapper easily outdamages the Brute, and that the Brute's only hope of simply "matching" the Scrapper in damage is with at least 50% fury (or something like that) and this doesn't even factor in Scrapper criticals....so with Brute Fury being harder to cap, it would appear, at least to me, that Scrappers >>> Brutes in damage, and that I would end up much more satisfied with the Scrapper's damage.


Am I right? Or are they really that close that it almost doesn't matter and I should just go with the Brute for slightly more survivability with FA?


And if so, would it be best to roll a Scrapper Dm/Fire then? If solid damage and decent survivability are what I'm looking for?


Thoughts?

this is touched on here in this topic:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=240598

I already have a DM/FA scrapper (which IMHO is very squishy) and was actually looking at a re-rolling as a brute for access to the Brute PPPs. Shadow Meld from the scrapper PPPs looks nice for a DM/FA but Gloom, two AoEs, and a -To Hit debuff toggle looks nicer despite scrappers capable of putting out higher DPS.

Hope the link helps in your decision. Good Luck!

At a quick glance, using Mid's, with brute fury at 60-65% a brute will do about ~85-90% of what the scrapper does.

So you understand how I got these numbers: I used a somewhat flawed method assuming Mid's numbers are right; I opened up two instances of Mid's created a DM/FA scrapper and a DM/FA brute. I gave the brute 60% fury and gave them both saturated Soul Drain. I compared their attacks enhanced and came up with the ~85% figure. I suspect all things being "equal" the brute will fall behind even lower than 85%.

Some of the board's number cruncher types could give you a more accurate assessment of the current disparity between scrapper and brute damage.

My rationale for favoring DM/FA on a brute over scrapper is based purely on the added survivability the brute Soul Mastery PPP offers in addition to added AoE and a great ST attack. In my mind its a good trade off for a slightly decreased damage output.

If you go with the scrapper you may want to build for S/L defense (leveraging IO bonuses) to bolster survivability. Aim for 35% or higher if you go with this method. I have seen other builds focus on + Melee defense. I prefer S/L myself. You will notice a great boost in survivability at these recommended levels.

The other option is to grab Shadow Meld to help deal with alphas and spikes in damage. If you can max out Shadow Meld (~30%) plus ~15% defense from IO bonuses and power pools you can essentially have soft capping on demand.

Hopefully someone else can offer their insights.

Scrappers don't get Brute PPP. They get stalker PPP. No Gloom. No Darkest Night.

Gloom very well could pull a brute single target DPS chain up past a scrapper chain with a similar build. Gloom is that good. And don't overlook that Darkest Night isn't just a tohit debuff... it's also a damage debuff.

That said, I'm not positive about adding gloom into the mix will make enough of a difference to push the brute past the scrapper. I haven't personally done the number crunching yet on just how awesome the new fiery embrace really is and didn't know until tonight that the extra damage FE adds to other attacks is also affected by damage buffs.

So: Damage output: I'm betting that the scrapper wins on a DM/FA combo.
Mitigation: Brute wins due to higher hitpoints and access to darkest night.

Working as intended.

Well, thanks for all the input guys. Looks like it's all still up in the air for debate as well as some serious testing and number crunching.


I think I'll end up rolling this Dm/FA build as a Scrapper though, since it seems the general consensus here is that it should slightly, at the very least, outdamage a Brute under normal circumstances. Thanks again everyone

I was faced with the same decision and I went Brute. I had a DM/Fire scrap at around 30, which was alright, but felt squishy compared to my other Scrappers. The Scrap probably does more dmage, but so far, I've been pretty good at keeping Fury at 2/3 - 3/4 on teams, so damage is good enough for me.

I prefer the higher survivability, and general consensus seems to be that Soul Mastery is awesome.

Make a dm/fa scrapper with max recharge and shadow meld