PVP-- Issues, and suggestions

Let me start off by saying; Yes, I know the devs will probably not even glance at this, but it does not hurt.

Ever since the issue of damnation, which we all know is the root of almost all problems in PVP, we also have to look to more forward solutions that do not involve a complete revert which I'm pretty sure the devs will not do.
I believe if we start small and work forward, things will be at least be brighter and a more agreeable future on the horizon.

Here is a list of problems and complete imbalances I have with the current state of PVP, more specifically: Zone PVP. I will also include some explanations behind these observations, and follow up with suggestions. Please feel free to add in your own issues and possible solutions.

To get the full picture of my suggestions it will require you to read all of this massive (TLR)...haha
================================================== =====
================================================== =====
=========================Problem #1====================
Travel Suppression:
With all of the holds, slows, stuns and immobs. This is unnecessary, especially for powers that double dip currently (heals). This should also not effect regen. Regen is powerful, yes, however you don't see TS having a negative damage bonus either to balance it out...

Instead of completely removing this debuff all-together, just have the duration be tied to the cast time of whatever power was used to cause the TS. So someone who casts a heal that has a 1.3s cast time, will only be TSed for the 1.3s it takes to cast the ability. At the same time if someone is HIT by a sniper attack or AS that takes 3 seconds to cast, both the caster and receiver will be TSed for 3 seconds.

I would also say remove the regen penalty completely, and reduce the actual slow caused by TS by 20%.



================================================== =====
======================Problem #2=======================

Heal Decay:
Now, I can perfectly understand why this was required. Who wants to be on a side with less numbers, fighting a side that is got a bunch of healers. I'm sure a lot of us have been there back in the day.

I do however think they went completely overboard on the amount of resist gained per heal. I see TWO possible solutions to this problem, I will let you be the judge if any of them are good.

First, I would say have it work both ways. What I mean by this is; by example, have the Heal resist on heal decay start at negative. So the first heal case on you is 50% greater than normal. Than the second would be for your normal enhanced amount. Than have the third be 20% less, the fourth be 50% less. So even further heals used would do a minimum of 50% of their normal healing. I would than go even further to add a heal resist debuff (and/or buff) to some non healing powers that could off set the heal resist a bit in a fight, requiring more teamwork. EX: Dark Blast does -to hit and adds +5% to heal resist, or Painbringer adds -10% to heal resist. etc etc


OR....Second, I would have the first heal on you be at normal, 100%. and it takes 10 heals instead to reach full resist. This is the simplest solution, but may not be the correct one.


================================================== ======
====================Problem #3==========================
Psi power sets, Psionic damage:

The main problem with these, are that the damage calculations seem to be very off. Against a target with 40% resist to psionic, and 40% resist to something else, using an unenhanced power from the (EX: Psi blaster) set, and one from the another blaster set with the same unehanced damage value. Considering the target has 40% resist to both, the Psi will do more damage, and noticeable.
This is a problem, and is one reason why it is overpowered.

First I would fix the d-calcs, than I would lower the damage value on the attacks slightly as they already have the best secondary effects and possible slotting (like plac). Clearly not working as intended currently (if balance was intended).

inc psi blaster flames


================================================== ======
====================Problem #4==========================

Stalker, the beaten, and dead horse;

Stalkers is where it gets very complicated. Whenever any mmo introduces an assassin type class, it throws all balance off, and can ruin the game in multiple aspects. Heres is the validity of an argument: You have 2 stalkers on a team, they just run up, and AS, the target dies. They did not have to spec anything special to do that. They would than argue in return 2 blasters could do something very similar to the stalkers. HOWEVER, this would require the blasters to be specced for mass perception, and even still the stalkers would only be visible to them, not guarenteeing the rest of their team. While when the stalker team is double ASing, one of those blasters, the blasters will pretty much always be visible to the stalkers team, without any spec requirement.

What I think should happen is, with a calculation, that when someone is hit by an AS they should gain an immunity to the critical damage bonus of a stalker for a few seconds (like 4s?). So if 2 stalkers were to try and double AS the target, whichever stalker activated first, even if by a millisecond, would do their normal AS critical, whilst the second stalker would do AS damage as if they were not in hide.
If possible you could go even further and have the stalker that did not get to critical their AS, not lose their hide.


I would go even further, to say that Hide and stealth should not stack.
One of the main reasons stalkers (or any stealth class for MMOs) Creates a mass problem, is because you could go into say RV at a certain part of the day when you have free time, on your stalker, and run around the zone and not see anyone to fight so you log, wondering to yourself why you pay for a game that is boring.

When in fact there were 6 stalkers on the opposing team, and maybe a few on yours and all the non stalkers are hiding in base because all they do is get double ASed, or the stalkers just jump around and fling 6 sharks at one person guarenteeing their death, with no consequence.


Personally I believe if this AT was removed from the game, and everyone who had one was given a free AT of equal level, the Zone PVP would be exponentially more popular, populated, and fun. However I doubt this is a reasonable request.

inc stalker players flame

(btw I have a stalker)
================================================== ====
==================Problem #5============================

Leviathan, cold PPP/EPP;

I put this as the next problem because part of it is related, to stalkers, but can be fixed very simply.

First off, Leviathan master, and Spirit Shark. This is a dreaded thing that is clearly not working as intended. It has full range, and has a crit multiplier that the class was never designed to have. I do not know if this is a mistake in the code or an error in the calculations but needs to be fixed. This is explained because you see more and more stalkers in zone every day, who do not even need to AS, they have a ranged AS, and they can just jump, fling one, and they are back in hide before it hits the target.

I would say reduce the range to 30, and unenhancable (for range). Simple, solved.



Now you have hibernate. The power that everyone seems to use (1 toon out of the couple dozen 50's I have, actually has hiber on it)

At least, with phase, you can phase after the target an still kill them. I believe the simple solution is to make the cooldown 1000 seconds. Keep the cooldown enhanceable, but this still will reduce the constant use when near death, and now more recently observed, even at full health...

I also believe the No-phase debuff should be reduced in duration by 25%, but have the debuff also reduce damage caused by 10%.


================================================== ===
==================Problem #6===========================

CC in general, CC against meat ATs, and other small issues:


First off, I would like to see CC do slightly more against meat ATs (Scraps and Tanks). I honestly do not know how to solve this, but feel free to add in.


Secondly, I would like to see a TP foe change. Drone TPing, TP ganking is way to rampant. I believe TP foe should have it's cast time increased BY 2seconds, and have it do a range check calcuation at the end of the cast as well (which is something this game lacks in all powers). So if you try and TP them, they are in range but move out of range before it is finished casting, it fails.

I would also require that, for an MM specifically. If the MM is targeted by a TP, at least half of his pets should go with him. It is WAY to easy to kill an MM, which is already one of the most PVP skill required ATs to play, by TP foeing them out of their pets and ganking.




Lastly, and finally. I would like to see an increase in the -end on elec powers. A greater -to hit on dark powers. I would also like to see -fly removed from all powers that cause it. There are very easy ways to combat a flyer. Even temp powers, and slows,etc. It is already counterbalaned by slower speed, and greater end cost.



===========
=================
=========================

Anyways, thanks for reading. I know it was long.

Please keep the comments to a mature level.

1. Travel suppression is needless, stupid, and should be completely removed anyways. It contributes nothing to balanced fights and is only decisive if someone gets caught out in the open against, say, a Blaster, or is jumped by a large group. Travel suppression makes ganking single targets infinitely easier than it was before I13. End of story.

2. Heal decay is also needless, stupid, and should be removed, so the focus is a bit less on damage spam and a bit more on support. If it's kept it should probably be reduced to a minimum heal value of 50% or even 75% (instead of 25%) so heals at least have some usefulness to a spike target.

3. The issue with Psi attacks (specifically Blasters) is not that the damage numbers are off (the DPA for the various Psi attacks is actually within the expected range, as most attacks have a PvP DPA of 80-120), but that due to projectile travel time you can essentially have three attacks' worth of damage hitting the target at once. This wouldn't be a big deal if you could get away from the Blaster or heal the damage, but you can't. Solution? Get rid of travel suppression and heal decay and use geometry to your advantage.

4. If two Stalkers manage to get AS's off on a target within a small enough window for the target to not hibernate/phase/pop greens/catch a heal/break line of sight, either those Stalkers are good, those Stalkers are lucky, or their target is really really bad. Generally it's the third condition, as most double AS's happen when a target is standing still. It's your own damn fault for making yourself an easy target. Stalkers got hit really hard by I13 and if anything they need a damage buff to AS so a single AS actually causes some concern to a target. Can't see the Stalkers on the other side? Team with an Emp/Pain/Storm/Sonic for +perception. Team with a VEAT. Learn what options are available and how to counter what your opponent has instead of complaining about your opponent being overpowered. 90% of zone Stalkers are trash, and people who think Stalkers are a serious threat post-I13 amuse me.

5. Sharks just needs its damage lowered. Nothing else needs to be done here. Regarding Hibernate, complaining about it is laughable because it renders its user immobile while it's active, giving you plenty of time to crowd around them, drop debuffs, gather the Stalkers to AS, or whatever, not to mention that once they come out you've got at least 90 seconds to kill them before nophase wears off and Hibernate recharges. If your problem is with the commonplace use of Hibernate, again you need to blame travel suppression and heal decay, which make escape powers mandatory unless you enjoy being a farm target.

6. Good start would be to revert the mez system to the old (PvE) rules, or find a halfway point between the old and current system. TP Foe is fine, it's a complete joke, especially with the phase period on the target after they've been TP'd. Complaining about it is hilarious when you have so many options to avoid it (bring oranges, team with a Kin, play one of the sets with TP protection, or best of all, stay out of range of the person with TP). If you're getting TP'd on an MM, follow the same rules. It's your own damn fault you keep getting TP'd away from your pets.

Increasing the secondary effects of attacks, sure, but that would be difficult or impossible to balance. Removing -fly? Hover already prevents most -fly powers from working with just one application, so use Hover, or take a real travel power that actually lets you remain mobile.

You spoke of I13, but based on your forum reg date you weren't around until nearly two years after so you couldn't possibly know what things were like before I13 or even when all the changes were just hitting the servers. What's ironic here is that you blame I13 for a bunch of problems (which is true, by the way) but then you proceed to suggest out-of-line nerfs to various powers without understanding how those powers actually work, which is exactly the sort of thing that got us I13 in the first place. I realize that complaining about things that beat you is far easier than figuring out why those things beat you and then doing something about it, but it's by far the worse option.

I really don't think Mac was trolling you there, what you said about Psi Blast and Stalker AS is pretty much blatantly false.

Fire blasters still out damage psi blasters in the 4 second spike window, its just Fire does its damage over 3-4 seconds where with projectile speed Psi creates a mini spike where it gets 3 packets of damage landing at once plus one follow up meaning generally all the damage is coming in over 1-2 seconds (Even though you spend the same 4-5 seconds animating attacks.

The biggest thing Psi has going for it is 4 attacks from 80 foot range (most people only use 3 of those as mental roots forever) Their animations are fast but the damage is in line with animation and recharge time.

Just look at the damage/recharge/activation times of Will Dom, TK, Blazing Arrow, and Bitter Ice Blast.

All have 80 foot range.
Blazing arrow 10 second recharge, 1.83 animation, 199.2 damage (w/ DoT)
Will Dom 20 Second Recharge, 1.1 animation 151.5 damage
TK blast 10 second recharge, 1 animation, 115.4 damage
BiB 12 second recharge, 1.07 Animation, 125.3 damage.

Psi Dart and Mental blast are standardized across pretty much all blaster sets that run on the 4 second tier 1 recharge and 8 second tier 2 recharge.

Stalker AS as it is right now is pretty much a joke. You need a double BU AS to drop most squishies that are built well (Read near 1600 HP) you need those AS'es to land within about a second of each other, otherwise the target can be healed, pop greens, phase, hibe, etc. You need to coordinate and land those AS'es within a 10 second build up window otherwise you aren't going to kill a 1600 HP squishy with a res shield.

One AS will take 50% or Less of a well built target, in most cases you can simply do more damage by going BU Shark/Placate/Shark. You get to do it from 80+ feet and doesn't require you to land an interruptable melee attack that can be greatly effected by the smallest amount of server lag (against targets who know how to actually move)

Some of what you said with HD and TS and things like that, yeah they need looked at. But the suggestions about stalkers and psi blasters come off more like someone who has been beat by them and doesn't quiet understand the mechanics involved.

The Reg date thing, it was an assumption that ended up being wrong, but I think given your comments on Psi blasters and Stalkers it was a semi safe assumption on his part.

I agree with you but I need to ask about this

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLiberty Fire blasters still out damage psi blasters

never seen a fire blaster out dmg psi

Fire Blaster Chain of Blaze, Flares, Blast, Flares

Psi Blaster Chain of Will Dom, Psi Dart, TK, Psi Dart.

Animation times : Fire 4.67 Psi 4.1 seconds
Psi Damage : 460.7
Fire Damage min with no DoT's : 468.4
With Avg DoT : 554.9
With Max DoT : 576.5

At the absolute low Psi > Fire for damage vs activation time but most DoT's on fire have an 80% chance for the first tic and with that it pulls ahead.

Psi of course has its advantages, you can still slot that broken placate proc I think and it can slot 1 extra damage proc across the chain. (2 in Psi Dart vs 2 in Flares, 1 in Will Dom vs 1 in Blaze, 2 in TK blast vs 1 in Fire blast)

Fire is nice for the chance for hold proc which is still unresisted I think, where with Psi blast you can still run it, but risk messing with mez suppression from will dom.

Psi's illusion of more damage comes from Will Dom/Dart/TK all hitting at about the same time but the psi blaster spends about the same amount of time in animation (actually attacking) as the fire blaster for less overall damage.

*Edit* I took a look at both of my blasters when they are all slotted up, the max damage with all the procs you are going to see from a Psi Blaster with no Aim/BU is 1551.7

From the Fire Blaster its going to top out at 1967.3

Keeping in mind you'll never *really* hit that hard with base resists and all but more is pretty much more. Basically fire has a better chance of out DPS'ing someones ability to heal while Psi creates a cleaner spike thanks to varied projectile speed.

Well written and very thoughtful.

After a week or more of intensive (4+ hours a day) PVP on freedom in RV there isn't much I disagree with in there. (as far as the problems go)

I didn't see anything regarding holds/mezzes...

They don't seem to do jack **** now cept stop someone for about 2 seconds. That isnt fair to trollers etc...


I dunno what the best solutions would be but I think you have addressed the problems very well.

Just an FYI if you fit powerboost into your build and started power boosting ring of fire and flashfire you'd see how stupidly good Mez can actually be. Yeah you can't just stack ST holds to perma hold someone once they run out of BF's anymore, but on the other side of things... if someone has a long duration PB mez there is nothing you can really do to get out of it unless you have a support toon behind you stacking CM's or CM equivalents, even then there is plenty of time to get dropped. And bringing break free's doesn't really do much considering 1 CM gives like 5 BF's worth of mez resistance (maybe 4).

One potential solution is to give all the squishies mag 6 protection to all mezzes and cap mez durations at 15 seconds, keeping toggles up when mezzed. This way you still have to stack mezzes, and Breakfrees/CM/whatever will prevent you from being mezzed (but as mezzes deal respectable damage as attacks that isn't such a big deal since you can still DPS), but running out of Breakfrees won't be a death sentence like it was in I12.

This is, of course, not a perfect solution, but it's sort of a halfway point between the old and new systems.

Meh could always up the mez protection melees get and give them some mez res too.