Help me with my system please?
By
Beach_Lifeguard,
Posted on: 2010-09-22 15:35 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
Hi Beach. You are right, your system is a little dated, but you'll be happy to know that it's not completely obsolete.
First off, the bad news: Your graphics card, the GeForce 6600, will not run any of the advanced Ultra Mode features. It might be able to handle reflections on the low to medium levels, but it will choke if you try to do things like realistic shadows or ambient occlusion. I used to have a 6600, and I know from experience that it did not work well with Bloom and... er, whatever the setting is that makes things get "fuzzy" at a distance.
You'll also need to look into significantly increasing your memory.
The good news is, you've got room to upgrade your system. It would really help if you knew the manufacturer and model of your motherboard, as I could recommend cost-effective replacement parts with product links, but as it stands I can give you some idea of what you'll be spending.
First off, memory. RAM is super-cheap these days. You have 1GB now, and you want to go to at least 3GB (Windows XP 32bit won't read beyond 3.25GB, but you're welcome to slot all the way up to 4GB). 4GB of RAM for that system will likely cost you $100 or less (provided you can reuse the 1GB that's already in there, of course).
Second, you're going to need a new video card if you want to use Ultra Mode. Your motherboard may or may not support the current generation of video cards (it might only use AGP, when motherboards now use PCIexpress), but either way you do have room to move up. Unfortunately, the outdated AGP cards tend to cost more money... if that's what your system uses, you may want to think about building/buying a whole new computer anyway; you may as well get your money's worth out of the upgrade, however you want to slice it. Your best option for upgrades here will reside in the GeForce 9000 series, and you're looking to spend likely over $200 for the AGP models.
If your motherboard does support PCIe cards, then you're almost certainly going to need to upgrade your power supply as well. A decent graphics card requires a PSU that works with about 400W at a minimum these days, and the really good graphics cards sometimes require upwards of 600W. A good PCIe card that works with most (if not all) Ultra Mode features will probably cost around $180 and go up from there.
Another option which can increase your speed on the cheap might be to add another hard drive to your system that you only install your games on, and keep it defragmented regularly. Having games, which tend to require a lot of reading and writing actions on your hard drive, on a physically separate drive than your operating system will cut down your load times noticably.
That should be a good start, to give you some things to think about. Let me/us know if you have any other questions. 
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
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Wow, thanks for all the info! I don't necessarily need to play in ultra mode, but one of the higher graphical presets in game would be nice rather than minimum or performance.
I know how to access all the info about my computer with msinfo32, but what is what is anyone's guess.
Would the motherboard be:
System Manu.: HP Pavillion 061
System Model: EG134AA-ABA a1230n
Processor: x86 Family 15 Model 39 Stepping 1 AuthenticAMD ~2200Mhz
BIOS Version: Phoenix Technologies LTD, 3.07 7/29/2005
Actually just saying the two lowest graphics settings doesn't really help us a whole lot. Even a base 6600 should be capable of driving the classic rendering system with High Shaders, and 200% draw distance.
Now, the starting point for Ultra-Mode settings in Low is the RadeonHD 4850 on the AMD side, and the Geforce GTS 250 on the Nvidia side.
If you shop carefully, you can find an HD 4850 for under $90 with Mail-in-Rebate.
You can find a Geforce GTS 250 for even less... but that's a Zotac... and um... quality isn't exactly a word I'd use to describe Zotac products.
Those are the 512mb versions. You'd really want the 1gb models.
A 1gb HD 4850 will set you back around $100, again, shopping carefully. You won't necessarily get a Good HD 4850... but you can get one.
A 1gb GTS 250 will also be setting you back around $100 if you leverage mail-in-rebates. Again, at this price-point, you won't exactly be getting a quality card.
* * *
The starting point for Ultra-Mode in High on the AMD side is the RadeonHD 5770, and on the Nvidia side any of the GTX 260 or higher series cards, or any of the GTX 460 or higher cards.
Most RadeonHD 5770's can be had for around $120~$130 if you shop the mail-in-rebates.
The Geforce GTX 200 series of cards is largely gone from the market, having been end-of-life'd last year. You can find BFG cards for cheap cash, but be aware the company went bankrupt.
The GTS 450, Nvidia's current Fermi derived budget card is largely considered to be a bad buy. It largely competes with the RadeonHD 5750, despite having a price point that pits it against the more powerful 5770. If you don't shop carefully, you'll actually pay more for a GTS 450 than you will for a 5770.
The GTX 460 is currently the only card Nvidia has that is actually worth a look. Even after AMD updated their Crossfire drivers, 2 1gb GTX 460's in an SLI configuration will trade blows with the more expensive RadeonHD 5850 cards in a 2x Crossfire configuration, and the much more expensive 5870 cards in a 2x Crossfire configuration.
However, outside of multi-gpu rendering modes, the GTX 460 is largely a dissapointment. It's 784mb model struggles against a filler part from AMD, the 5830, and it's 1gb model isn't as fast as a single 5850.
These cards though are probably outside of your system's reach. Which is why I'm not linking them.
* * *
Truth be told, on your computer, you'll slam into both a processor bottleneck, and a systems memory bottleneck, long before you slam into a graphics card bottleneck.
First: the memory. City of Heroes will happily chew through 2gb of ram like it was at an all-you-can-eat Pizza Buffet.
Second: The processor. An A64 3700 at 2.2ghz could be one of two different processors. It could be the ADA3700DKA5CF, which was the Socket 939 Toledo model which was originally an Athlon64 X2 with a disabled core; or it could be the ADA3700DAA5BN, which was the Socket 939 San Diego model and only came with one core to begin with. My money is on the ADA3700DAA5BN.
This means that your processor is likely only to be a single core Socket 939 processor. You'd actually get a larger performance benefit buying a Socket 939 X2 processor than you would a new graphics card.
So, I'm going to be brutal here.
You don't have an upgrade path to Ultra-Mode, even in Low.
You need an entire new computer.
Truth be told, on your computer, you'll slam into both a processor bottleneck, and a systems memory bottleneck, long before you slam into a graphics card bottleneck.
First: the memory. City of Heroes will happily chew through 2gb of ram like it was at an all-you-can-eat Pizza Buffet.
Second: The processor. An A64 3700 at 2.2ghz could be one of two different processors. It could be the ADA3700DKA5CF, which was the Socket 939 Toledo model which was originally an Athlon64 X2 with a disabled core; or it could be the ADA3700DAA5BN, which was the Socket 939 San Diego model and only came with one core to begin with. My money is on the ADA3700DAA5BN.
This means that your processor is likely only to be a single core Socket 939 processor. You'd actually get a larger performance benefit buying a Socket 939 X2 processor than you would a new graphics card.
* * *
So, I'm going to be brutal here.
You don't have an upgrade path to Ultra-Mode, even in Low.
You need an entire new computer.
While Chad's right as far as he went, in looking at what you have I question the value of upgrading that machine; yes they would improve your gaming but you're still dealing with the bottleneck of the old CPU and the rest of the machine. I'd be concerned that you'd dump $300-400 on upgrades and still be unhappy with what you had. Some of the things he suggested, like a PCI Express vid card (IF your motherboard supports it) would be useable in a new machine while things like RAM (current hardware uses a different type) would be wasted money if you decided to replace the machine later.
I'm not completely up on the latest hardware but you could put together something with current generation mid-level components for not a lot more than $600 that would eat your machine alive, even with the upgrades. I'm going to assume that you'll keep your current monitor ($150 for a good 21" if you want to upgrade) and your current hard drive/DVD drive and possibly as long as you don't have a proprietary design the case itself (Cases are $20 - $200 depending on features... $40 buys plenty for most people).
Let's see, off the top of my head approximate prices for a full upgrade, power supply - $80, motherboard - $80, CPU - $150, 4GB RAM - $80, vid card - $150. Now this is as I said all off the top of my head and without picking out specific components but it should be within $100 of the total cost.
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OK, it is the San Diego model.
Now, I am not at all against getting a new setup and I am sure I will probably go that route in the next 6-9 months, but If I upgrade my current setup to 2 or 3 gb of memory I'll get a significant upgrade in performance?
I can't see buying a new card at this point or a new processor if I plan to get a new system within a year, but with memory being pretty cheap, it seems worth the short time investment, correct?
You guys are a huge help and I appreciate it.
Quote:
The primary improvement you'll notice with RAM is your load/zoning times; it will have a lesser effect on general performance. Yes, since you're so low on RAM it will help, but is it enough to justify putting $100 into a machine you'll be replacing shortly? Hmm, come to think of it you could get another 1GB stick pretty cheap and bring you to 2GB... what I recall being the "sweet spot" in RAM for COH back several years ago.|
Originally Posted by Beach_Lifeguard
OK, it is the San Diego model.
Now, I am not at all against getting a new setup and I am sure I will probably go that route in the next 6-9 months, but If I upgrade my current setup to 2 or 3 gb of memory I'll get a significant upgrade in performance? I can't see buying a new card at this point or a new processor if I plan to get a new system within a year, but with memory being pretty cheap, it seems worth the short time investment, correct? You guys are a huge help and I appreciate it. |
Thinking it over dropping $20-30 for another 1GB stick may be worthwhile; I doubt you'd see enough improvement going from 2-4GB though. I'd suggest heading to www.crucial.com and using their memory tool to find the RAM type you need and grab a 1GB stick; for the money it's probably worthwhile as a stopgap. I wouldn't suggest getting more though; it probably won't have enough effect for the cost.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Thanks so much everyone.
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no.|
Originally Posted by Beach_Lifeguard
OK, it is the San Diego model.
Now, I am not at all against getting a new setup and I am sure I will probably go that route in the next 6-9 months, but If I upgrade my current setup to 2 or 3 gb of memory I'll get a significant upgrade in performance? I can't see buying a new card at this point or a new processor if I plan to get a new system within a year, but with memory being pretty cheap, it seems worth the short time investment, correct? You guys are a huge help and I appreciate it. |
For starters, let's go back to that processor. Thing is, on the San Diego model processor, you are pretty much going to be hamstrung by the single core performance. I've got an Athlon64 Socket 754 processor at 2.1ghz, and I can tell you from personal experience that a RadeonHD 5770 offered pretty much no performance difference over a RadeonHD 4650. You'll run into the single core processor's performance limit long before you run into the graphics card limit.
You can still purchase X2 939 processors, and for relatively cheap. A Socket 939 X2 3800, for example, can be had for only $45. Unless your running lots of applications that can leverage SMT though, this processor will actually be SLOWER than you one already have... as it's base clock speed is 200mhz slower.
A Socket 939 X2 4400, which shares your 3700's 2.2ghz clockspeed, will set you back nearly $100.
Problem is, you could pick up a Quad Core Athlon II in this $100 price-range, not to mention Phenom II X2 or Phenom II X3's as well, all of which will absolutely trash the Socket 939 processor.
Then there's the memory. The difference between the Socket 939 processors and the Socket 754 processors was the memory controller. The 939 was a dual channel model, the Socket 754 was a single channel model. Now I've had a couple of 939 X2 4000's, and I can tell you from personal experience that they were awful at running in Dual Channel mode unless the memory sticks were matched.
More than likely, you aren't going to be able to match the memory in your computer, which means you'll need to purchase complete new sets.
Another problem is that the Atlhon64 architecture is extremely sensitive to memory timings. You could literally lose as much as 8%~13% performance going from DDR 2.2.2.5 to DDR 3.3.3.8, and another 10%~15% performance in any single application just going from DDR 3.3.3.8 to DDR 4.4.4.12.
Memory also isn't that cheap. A matched 2gig DDR 2.3.2.5 set from Gskill will set you back nearly $90. That's kind of a steep price to pay for memory that you won't be able to use in a future computer. If you try and go for 4gb to max the 32bit Xp limit, you'll be spending out a metric ton of cash... for performance that won't actually be there.
The Atlhon64 3700 San Diego only supported DDR 400 (or lower). Back then there was little to no difference between 2gb and 1gb memory simply because the processor and the memory controller weren't really fast enough to leverage that extra memory space. In most cases, two 512meg sticks in Dual Channel mode would offer more performance than 2gb of memory (single stick or two sticks) in non dual channel mode.
Then there's the price itself. For less than the price of 2gb of DDR ram, you could get 4gb of DDR3 memory: THAT IS FASTER.
Then there's the question of the motherboard. Socket AM3 motherboards are cheap. You can get an OEM model for under $50.
So... let's put this together.
It's actually going to cost you more, per hardware component, to upgrade your computer's processor and memory, than it is to get new components.
You'll actually probably save enough money between buying a much better new processor, and much better new faster memory, over upgrading the old processor and memory, to cover the cost of a low-end Socket AM3 motherboard.
So no. Upgrading your current computer is not a wise investment of your money. A new graphics card isn't going to bring you any more performance now, and a new processor or new memory for your computer are not going to be compatible with whatever you buy next.
What's more is that if you go out and buy a new graphics card now, when you actually are ready to drop the money on a new computer, that same amount of cash you spent now will probably have bought you a much more powerful graphics card.
Save your money.
If you are going to go out and buy now, buy a new motherboard, new memory, and new processor. It will cost you near as much the same as buying a new old processor, and new old memory, and you'll actually be able to tell a performance difference, even with a 6600 graphics card.
I agree with Awesome here. Now that you've mentioned you're planning to buy a new PC soon anyway, do the cheapest upgrades you can (an extra 1GB of RAM is a great suggestion) and just save the rest of your money for your sweet new rig.
And remember, painting flames on the side of your case won't actually make you go faster, but it will make you more attractive to sexy nerds! 
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Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
|
Single core, Socket 939 AMD, 1 gig of DDR memory (likely 2 x 512MB) and a nVidia 6600.
1) Yea, you are unlikely able to squeeze any additional graphics performance with that set up.
2) As others have suggested a RAM upgrade will help smooth out the game play, especially outdoors. But upgrading the video card (assuming PCIe and not AGP) will just make you CPU bound and there's not a lot you can do there. Then there's the power supply to consider if you try a card capable enough to run Ultra Mode as they are a bit more power hungry than an old nVidia 6600.
I suggest you save your money for a major upgrade all at once, power supply, motherboard, memory, CPU, video card. Possibly optical and hard drive as well since today's motherboards don't support many older ATA devices (use 40/80 pin ribbon cables Vs thin SATA cables).
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I'm with most of the others on this - the only thing I'd consider would be an extra 1Gb of RAM everything else is just throwing good money after bad.
Buying a new PC would be as cheap as upgrading to bring it up to a performance level where you could run UM.
Either that or look around on the second hand market or end of line/surplus/bankrupcy sales.
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Here is what I know about my computer. It is a few years old. I can play COH fine, but only on the lowest 2 graphical settings. No Ultra-mode. But it would be very helpful to know (1) am I getting the most I can out of my system if minimal or performance setting is the best I can handle and (2) what would it cost to upgrade to be able to use ultra mode, even at the lower settings?
Windows XP
AMD Athlon 64 processor 3700+, MMX, 3D now, 2.2Ghz
1022 MB Ram
Direct X 9.0c
Nvidia GeFroce 6600 (256.0 MB) - Type DDR
Whatever else you might need to know, I'll try to figure out where to find the info.
Thanks to whomever can make any suggestions.