You are not the first to think of this type idea and I can understand the appeal of it as you could have a more focused character and generally more powerful within that focus. I do feel that it works against the jack of all trades idea that many believe is the heart of the kheldian though. The most drastic example of this would be a triform PB with light form. It would loose out on some of its human form powers ( or at least it seems like you want to make the human weaker ) and then it would have to pick between nova, dwarf, or light form. That is alot of things someone is going to loose. And when people loose powers or get nerfed they tend to get very upset.
Besides many of the things you say you want the forms to have you can already get very similar effects as is.
Lightform: Blapper is often what people compare a human only to. some good melee, some range, and a bit of resistance.
Squid form: has 2 AoEs if you need more drop to human and you get 2 more, human also has the nuke and build up you say you want for the squid form.
Crab form: removing the slow on dwarf would be nice but if it causes you many problems it has a built in teleport, the same thing many stone tanks use to deal with the slow speed they have. The AoE melee attack of PBs has a taunt component in it IIRC.
You ask for a unstoppable type power but then turn the unstoppable type power we have into a form.
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Nice try at setting up anyone to disagree with you as a zealot with an invalid opinion. You want to make a suggestion? Be prepared to hear what's potentially wrong with it.|
Originally Posted by dmcfarland907
I know the zealots are going to pick this to hell.
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Originally Posted by dmcfarland907
The human only form is still weak but I have a suggestion to make all forms usable without having to spend a small fortune on IO's.
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Originally Posted by dmcfarland907
I think all three forms should have their own unique abilities and benifits and heres my idea.
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Originally Posted by dmcfarland907
1.Light form: Melee w/limited ranged powers, mez, kb protection and a version of unstop. The light form would essentially be a pocket scrapper/blapper form.
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A Peacebriner is a pocket scrapper/blapper, and doesn't need Light Form to do this. Don't look at Light Form as a transformation power, and please, do not try to turn it into one that has its own powers. We're already starved for slots as it is. Terrible idea, with obviously little to no thought put into it.
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Originally Posted by dmcfarland907
2. Squid form: Expand the powers selection, include buildup, some AOE's, and an nova.
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The human form has a wide range of capabilities, but is not as effective as any of the ATs who have just a few of these capabilities. Going into Bright Nova trades most of your capabilities for the damage of a blaster, in the form of higher damage modifiers and a damage bonus. Anything more would be an imbalance. Or would you prefer to keep your low damage modifiers when shifting into nova?
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Originally Posted by dmcfarland907
3. Crab form": Tanker powers, take away the damn slow movement, expand their tanking abilities, have a power with a taunt aura, mez protection, an unstop power similiar to tanks.
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Again, you need to understand that a dwarf is not a tank. It has taunt, and all its attacks have taunt components. That's more than enough to serve as an off-tank when played intelligently. Giving them more capabilities than this would result in imbalance.
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Originally Posted by dmcfarland907
4. Customizable options for all forms and powers.
I would do it like they do with banes and choose a path at lvl 24. I would do away with the team buff bs. Mind you they can still transform to human form but they would be watered down. The pb and ws (which I have no experience with so I am not commenting,) should be like the druid class in wow. They have actually four forms-one being their normal form. |
Further: Standard Code Rant. You don't understand the implications a massive design overhaul of the entire AT would take. Even if your suggestion here were a good one, it probably wouldn't be done because of the time and resources required.
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Dechs already did a good job of breaking your idea down and countering your points.
I'll echo what he said. You seem to misunderstand the point of the Kheldian ATs. Their forms are meant to serve as miniature versions of the ATs they're modelled after; not full blown copies. That's the point of a jack of all trades class. They sacrifice top end performance in a particular field in order to gain versatility. Your purposed changes would allow Kheldians to effectively replace two or three other ATs in a team setting.
To use your comparison of Druids in WoW, they function the exact same way. Though they can be specced to use their forms very well they're still not capable of taking the same levels of punishment as a Warrior or bringing down targets like a Rogue.
Ideas like this tend to showcase a failure to understand both design principles and knowledge of how to play a Kheldian effectively. None of their powers, including forms, are meant to function as individual power houses. Using them in conjunction is what makes the ATs interesting and effective.
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So how about this: Since we think Khelds are fine, how about teaming up with one of us to find out how we mitigate Kheldian's shortcomings? Currently, mine have no IO's slotted (with the exception of -KB), and I can solo and team perfectly fine. I soloed Malta just yesterday, in fact. I ask team-members to leave Voids alone because I want to be the one to take them down
I implore both you and the OP to give them another shot, with a new perspective. They can be a whole lot of fun. Check out the guides, and see what's changed since you last slotted them (because a respec can make all the difference).
"It has taunt, and all its attacks have taunt components."
Do Dwarf attacks really have punchvoke? I also took a long break from the game, but I don't remember this or a patch note indicating this.
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I am ok with a complete design overhaul. It would be good to see what the devs can come up with and all I have to say is do you see a lot of khelds? I am on infinity and I don't see a lot of khelds and for the record I have leveled up a pb from 1-50. I feel a player should be able to choose a kheld form and stick with it
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The problem with a complete overhaul (above and beyond the considerable Dev investment you're talking about), is that it's a scrap-and-replace situation. Just take a look at how people react when a single power is changed or even tweaked - many of them have massive overreactions, making hyperbolic claims about being "nerfed into unplayability" and in some cases even leaving the game over it. And this are mild changes compared to what you're suggesting.|
Originally Posted by dmcfarland907
I am ok with a complete design overhaul. It would be good to see what the devs can come up with and all I have to say is do you see a lot of khelds? I am on infinity and I don't see a lot of khelds and for the record I have leveled up a pb from 1-50. I feel a player should be able to choose a kheld form and stick with it.
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This kind of complete overhaul would essentially pull the rug out from under people who've invested significant time and energy into their characters. Beyond altering a power or two, this would basically change the way the character plays altogether. Even if the new powersets were universally viewed as a complete improvement (unlikely, to say the least), it's still not what you originally made, played and liked.
In my view it's best for the Devs to make wholly original new powersets and, eventually, whole new original EATs. Destroying this one, even if it's to make something better, is still needless destruction of something that many people like. That's not a good Dev approach. No one said you (or Price_NA for that matter) had to like them, but you should recognize that other players do and respect that.
I also disagree with the 'one form and stick with it' approach but that's more of a preference issue. I can see why you'd want something like that, I just think it runs counter to how this AT was designed to work.
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I have come back to the game after a long break and I have noticed that Khelds are still screwed up IMHO. The human only form is still weak but I have a suggestion to make all forms usable without having to spend a small fortune on IO's. (I know I am going to get crap for this by the zealots.)
I think all three forms should have their own unique abilities and benifits and heres my idea.
1.Light form: Melee w/limited ranged powers, mez, kb protection and a version of unstop. The light form would essentially be a pocket scrapper/blapper form.
2. Squid form: Expand the powers selection, include buildup, some AOE's, and an nova.
3. Crab form": Tanker powers, take away the damn slow movement, expand their tanking abilities, have a power with a taunt aura, mez protection, an unstop power similiar to tanks.
4. Customizable options for all forms and powers.
I would do it like they do with banes and choose a path at lvl 24. I would do away with the team buff bs. Mind you they can still transform to human form but they would be watered down. The pb and ws (which I have no experience with so I am not commenting,) should be like the druid class in wow. They have actually four forms-one being their normal form.
I know this is going to NEVER happen and I know the zealots are going to pick this to hell. I wouldn't mind playing a kheld again if they did this.