Which to choose?


Microcosm

 

Posted

Looking to play a melee class of some sort. I've come down to choosing between Stalker or Scrapper to do so. I will be taking this toon through Praetoria and am not afraid of some initial difficulty with the class as long as the payoff in the end is worth while.

I'm looking to be able to effectively solo mob spawns for x8, at anything between +0 to +2 to be happy. Higher than +2 would definitely be a plus. However the biggest factor is having the aoes along with enough reasonable single target dps and soft capped defenses to be able to solo any EB i come to without problems. AV/Heroes too if possible but not really a necessity. It doesn't have to be an OMGWTFBBQ farming build, but something that doesn't have issues taking down a 10 mob spawn or a hardened target.

Another factor is I like taking stealth and using stealth i/o's to quickly complete missions, or stealth through areas without gaining aggro. Any builds I make will be constructed around this concept. Stalkers gain this innately in Hide, so its a point in that category.

I'm leaning towards electric melee for the aoes.

If scrapper probably ElM/SD.
If stalker probably ElM/Nin.

I have concerns with both builds. Concern that the scrapper lacks in single target damage what the stalker can gain from Assassins shock in an attack chain. Also concern that the stalker loses both st and aoe dps from seemingly lower base attack from the AT differences and lack of AAO that shield provides, while having lower hp. I realize Nin would have the heal, but lower resistances compared to shield and less hp from the AT.

So I guess my question is which would you choose and why?

Also would any other builds meet the criteria above? My friend plays a Claws/SR stalker, and does really well, but honestly the single cone/aoe in the form of knockback with shockwave is completely meh in my opinion. Does the spin power in the scrapper claws primary make up for the loss of burst from AS when fighting hardened targets? His character is the primary reason I'm considering stalker at all.


 

Posted

Generally, at the moment it is better to pick a scrapper over a stalker for performance reasons, except in the case of Electric melee. The extra damage from AS in an attack chain (there's a trick about elec/nin that means you don't have to waste time with placate) make Stalker Electric melee significantly superior in single target damage, while having slightly lower or equal or higher AoE damage than the scrapper based on team size.

Between /sd and /nin, it's kind of a wash for me as I love both sets. I don't generally see shield charge as all that helpful to electric's AoE emphasis unless you're farming. AAo is nice, so are caltrops and blinding powder; an uninterruptible self heal is great, but so is increased hit points and resistance. Either could solo at x8 when softcapped, and pretty easily as long as it's not something like Nemesis that eats through defense sets. I will say that the tier 9 on my shield scrapper is a bit more useful than that of the nin stalker, but the shielder is quite a bit more painful on endurance.

Tl;dr
General effectiveness/taking hard targets: Stalker
Farming/likemesumshieldcharj: Scrapper


The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]

 

Posted

You may want to consider Brutes, too. Stalkers are way too squishy. Brutes deal a little less damage than scrappers, but are far more survivable. I've heard /SD brutes are, well, brutal.


 

Posted

Stalkers sacrifice any inherent means of aggro control for the ability to burst damage a target via Assassin's Strike. Given the other ATs get equivalent sustained single target DPS, greater AoE DPS, higher HP, and the ability to pull aggro from your teammates, they're usually my choice.

That said, I'm usually playing a 'game' for the feel of a character, so I usually just pick whatever AT best exemplifies how I imagine my character.


Member of:
Repeat Offenders Network - The Largest Coalition Network in the Game, across Virtue, Freedom, Justice and Exalted. Open to all, check us out.

Current Team Project: Pending

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO View Post
Stalkers sacrifice any inherent means of aggro control for the ability to burst damage a target via Assassin's Strike. Given the other ATs get equivalent sustained single target DPS, greater AoE DPS, higher HP, and the ability to pull aggro from your teammates, they're usually my choice.
That is not accurate in the case of Electric melee paired with /nin; these Stalkers can actually make use of AS in their single target chain and come out substantially better off than the others, and they get the same AoE attacks as the other AT's (all other Stalker sets lose at least one AoE), which also surpass the other AT's in damage when near a few teammates (stalker scaling crit rate). Nin also has tons of aggro control with caltrops and blinding powder, not that a softcapped character needs it, nor a character whose primary can deal so much knockdown.

Edit to clarify for those who don't know: Using AS in an attack chain normally reduces your single target damage, mostly because you have to take the time to placate beforehand in order to get the special damage. An electric/nin is able to fit AS in its chain at key points without having to use placate, and thus gains the special extra damage without losing as much in opportunity cost of its other attacks. Combine this with the fact that electric's single target attacks are not the strongest on the block, and the fact that the Stalker can pull off a massive dps attack every now and then becomes an enormous advantage.

Why/how does this work? The key to pulling off an AS is being in hidden status. One must not directly deal damage or take it for 8 seconds after attacking to re-enter hidden status. Summoned pets are not direct damage, and therefore do not break hide nor keep one from re-entering hidden status. Lightning Rod and Caltrops are both 'summoned pets.' Every time Lightning Rod is recharged, a stalker can execute Caltrops, then Build Up, then Lightning Rod, and then Assassin's Shock, and by the time the Assassin's Shock (the only direct damage there) lands, 8 seconds will have passed and a full AS will be had. This works best with soft-capped stalkers for obvious reasons, but the very consistent knockdown from Lightning Rod helps to keep enemies from landing attacks for this period. Speaking from experience, when softcapped, not being able to pull off the AS is quite rare.

The entire damage from that break in your normal single target chain is much better over time than your normal chain is.


The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]