Computer-buying advice.
By
Call Me Awesome,
Posted on: 2010-08-19 11:48 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
Quote:
Post #3|
Originally Posted by Trinculo
except you are missing an OS (add $100)
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
I have a Windows 7 disc laying around somewhere, so no problem there. I should find it first...
|
Quote:
| and also running a stock cooler |
If OC'ing had been a prereq, I'd have offered something else.
Quote:
| so not exactly comparable. |
Quote:
| I like the I7, it's a great cpu, I just don't like spending about a third of the system cost on that one part. |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Yeah, I'm simple. I don't need to be kickin' out massive gigahertz and jiggawatts and other things I don't know what I'm talking about.
A good, but pared down from top-of-the-line systems is about what I'm looking for.
Something just above average would be great.
Quote:
Any collective thoughts on this one? The $800 price point appeals to me...!|
Originally Posted by MadHobbit
|
But again, it comes with the OS which I don't need.
Also, I could do open-box for $720. Any common drawbacks with doing so?
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
Quote:
It's a slower video card and the CPU, while it has 6 cores instead of 4 runs at a lower speed... COH won't use more than 2 cores anyway. It doesn't say anything about the power supply but knowing how Dell works it's probably the bare minimum needed to power that hardware. The preinstalled OS will come with a metric ton of crapware; the very first thing I'd do would be to wipe the drive and reinstall the OS.|
Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
Yeah, I'm simple. I don't need to be kickin' out massive gigahertz and jiggawatts and other things I don't know what I'm talking about.
A good, but pared down from top-of-the-line systems is about what I'm looking for. Something just above average would be great. Any collective thoughts on this one? The $800 price point appeals to me...! But again, it comes with the OS which I don't need. Also, I could do open-box for $720. Any common drawbacks with doing so? |
The price is moderately attractive but the machine Father Xmas spec'd out will outperform it, and you'd be able to upgrade it.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Hyper,
I was just going based on the original system he had asked about and the wishlist that FatherXmas put together for him, which had custom coolers, above average case, etc.
You don't always get what you pay for, sometimes you pay a premium to get the current 'top dog' etc. Intel has a history of charging a premium for their top cpu's unless there's competition (which sadly there really isn't for the I7).
As an example, an 2.9Mhz I870 is $290 at newegg right now, A 3.2G I-960 is $570 $10 short of doubling the price for +10% mhz.. how exactly would that be getting what you pay for?
CM
Given what you just said, I'd ask yourself how important a fancy case is worth vs a servicable one (eg. coolermaster vs antec), and a few other things.. I'd start with the "$750" system that Fatherxmas lists, and as I said earlier make a few tweaks to it as your budget allows.
If you've no interest in overclocking, don't buy a 'black' or 'extreme' cpu, just get normal locked cpu. with stock heatsink
Quote:
1: A higher speed-binned component. The close you come to the bleeding edge, the more it costs because there are fewer parts that actually qualify at that level.|
Originally Posted by Trinculo
As an example, an 2.9Mhz I870 is $290 at newegg right now, A 3.2G I-960 is $570 $10 short of doubling the price for +10% mhz.. how exactly would that be getting what you pay for?
|
2: A triple-channel memory controller for higher memory throughput.
Quote:
| Given what you just said, I'd ask yourself how important a fancy case is worth vs a servicable one (eg. coolermaster vs antec), and a few other things.. I'd start with the "$750" system that Fatherxmas lists, and as I said earlier make a few tweaks to it as your budget allows. |
Budget case: Think of the line from Crocodile Dundee about eating snakes and scorpions. "Yeah, you can eat it, but it tastes like ****!"
This is pretty much the situation with cheapo cases. Sure you can mount a system in there. Sharp edges, bad fit and finish making everything feel (or even BE) slipshod.
Silent cases: Usually fairly well built. But, in the drive to build a tightly controlled case, most places also build a TIGHT case. I had this driven home to me a year or so ago when I tried to buy a GTX260 for a system in an Antec Sonata case. It didn't fit. Period. I could have sacrificed half the cooling in the case by ripping out a fan to MAKE it fit. But the system would have become an oven. That and assembling it or servicing it after the fact is made rough by how tigher the confines of the case are.
For the most part, caviar cases are just great. Everything fits. No problems. More stuff for them than you'll ever use. Finish is nice, no burrs, no sharp edges. The only thing that hurts is your pocket book. I point you at the ABS Canyon. This was a SWEET case to build in. But for nearly $400? I can afford that, but the cheap ******* in me says "pass"!
Then there are the "nice" cases. For everyone this is different. Right now, for me, the CoolerMaster CM690 series of cases has been quite good. Had a couple SMALL issues with overly tight motherboard standoff pilot holes. But nothing that can't be solved with a small ratchet or a pair of pliers. Lots of space in the mainboard compartment. Plenty of spots to mount additional fans. And lots of room behind the motherboard backplane to assist with cable routing. Not bad for a $70 case. I've built one system for myself with it, and have since built two systems at work for co-workers with this case.
If you've no interest in overclocking, don't buy a 'black' or 'extreme' cpu, just get normal locked cpu. with stock heatsink[/QUOTE]
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
The biggest problem with that system is the HD 5450. Great if all you are planning to watch are videos and play Zombies Vs Plants, lousy for 3D gaming. And I'm not being a video card snob here, the HD 5450 is over 6-7x slower than an HD 5770. It's a tad better than an 9400GT but that isn't saying a lot.|
Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
Yeah, I'm simple. I don't need to be kickin' out massive gigahertz and jiggawatts and other things I don't know what I'm talking about.
A good, but pared down from top-of-the-line systems is about what I'm looking for. Something just above average would be great. Any collective thoughts on this one? The $800 price point appeals to me...! But again, it comes with the OS which I don't need. Also, I could do open-box for $720. Any common drawbacks with doing so? |
Open box means someone bought it, opened it, played with it, and sent it back. No idea if the previous short time owner played with it's guts, installed "bad" software or messed up the system in general. All they are guaranteeing, and that may be an exaggeration of the word, is that it turns on and has all the parts on the packing list.
If we know what you have today, maybe we can get an idea what's "better" relative to your current experience.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Oh, anything would be better. I have a Sony Vaio from 2004 (when I bought it to play this game!).
I've upgraded the RAM a few times and the graphics card, but I can't recall what my updates exactly were and I'm currently at work and can't check.
I think your most recent example was good, Father Xmas, but if we could drop that by $100 or $200, I could validate it to the wife a lot easier.
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
Quote:
Actually, I wouldn't touch an "open box" deal with a 10 foot pole, because they do not guarantee that it has anything but the main product in the box - if there were adapters or extra cables or manuals - no guarantee they are there at all. |
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Open box means someone bought it, opened it, played with it, and sent it back. No idea if the previous short time owner played with it's guts, installed "bad" software or messed up the system in general. All they are guaranteeing, and that may be an exaggeration of the word, is that it turns on and has all the parts on the packing list.
|
Exerpt from Newegg's Open Box Refund Only Return Policy: "If you purchase an Open-Box product Newegg guarantees only that you will receive the product itself; accessories MAY OR MAY NOT BE INCLUDED with Open-Box products. Newegg will not send you a missing accessory, even if the missing accessory is required in order to properly make use of all the product’s advertised functions."
Storm
Serenity is not freedom from the storm, but peace amid the storm ...
Quote:
Just as a side note - Tom's Hardware just did a piece on several $50 (or slightly under) cases. Not all bad (though one was just horrid.)|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Budget case: Think of the line from Crocodile Dundee about eating snakes and scorpions. "Yeah, you can eat it, but it tastes like ****!"
This is pretty much the situation with cheapo cases. Sure you can mount a system in there. Sharp edges, bad fit and finish making everything feel (or even BE) slipshod. |
That said - running in a CM 690 here, and quite happy with it. (Can throw my parts "wish list" up - comes in under $1000 currently.... once the list saves as public.)
my biggest concern is we talk OP into getting parts and he tries and fails ,due to no fault of his .
while he may not get the super duper max framerate machine, it will be much better than he has now,if he goes with prebuilt.now one oother possiblility is the local mom and pop shop.my local one charges about 100.00 to build if you buy parts from them. you could specify the parts,they go through the "smoke" test,and he could get a machine with some of the parts that culd later be upgraded to a better machine in the future.
found this
Saturday August 28, 2010
PC Industry's Woes Could Mean Bargains This Fall
Have you ever asked yourself the question; should I buy now or wait and see if the price goes down? Of course you have and now it looks like the time to wait is here. Prices are predicted to fall in the fall
Barclays Capital analyst Ben Reitzes said another factor could cause PC makers to cut prices: In the past few months, the prices for parts such as hard disk drives and memory have fallen - to their lowest levels of the year in August. That gives PC makers the freedom to lower prices while maintaining profit margins.
Fluffy Bunny 1 Person SG
Rabid Bunny 1 Person VG
Both on Pinnacle
Hobbit's Hole 1 Person SG
Spider's Web 1 Person VG
Both on Freedom
on a side note found a company that will assmeble onlin orders for free, threw this to getheras a sample
Amd Athlon / Phenom Motherboards Gigabyte Ga-Ma790gpt-Ud3h Amd 790gx Ddr3
Amd Athlon Dual Core / Phenom Quad Core Amd Phenom Ii X4 965 3.4ghz Processor
CPU Processor Fan High Speed - Heavy Duty Quiet Run Cooler
Thermal Compound Kits Arctic Silver 5 3.5gram Thermal Compound
Ddr3 240-Pin Memory 6gb Ddr3 3x2gb 1333mhz Pc3-10600 Memory
Memory Cooling Solutions None Selected
Pci Express Video Card Adapters Ati Radeon Hd5770 1gb Ddr5 Dual Dvi Hdmi
Sound Cards ONBOARD REALTEK ALC 888S 8-CHANNEL HD AUDIO SOUND CARD ADAPTER
Networking ONBOARD REALTEK 8111DL GIGABIT FAST ETHERNET CARD ADAPTER (LAN)
Additional Storage 1tb 1000gb 7200rpm Sata Hard Drive
Additional Storage None Selected
Hard Drive Coolers None Selected
Internal Cd-Rw 22x Dvd±R/Rw Dual Layer Internal Drive
Dvd / Dvd±R / Dvd±Rw Drives None Selected
Wireless Networking None Selected
Internal Modems None Selected
Internal Floppy Drives None Selected
Flash Memory Card Readers None Selected
Usb Controllers None Selected
Firewire Cards None Selected
Tv Tuners None Selected
Tower Cases Raidmax Enzo Atx-617wr Red Midtower
Power Supply Upgrades 750watt Dual Core / Quad Core Certified
Case Cooling Fan None Selected
Accessories For Cases None Selected
Operating System None Selected
Productivity Software None Selected
Antivirus None Selected
Utilities None Selected
Assembly & Testing Options Standard Assembly & Test-Ships 2-5 Days
Keyboards None Selected
Computer Mice None Selected
Speakers None Selected
Monitors None Selected
Flash Memory / Usb Memory None Selected
Recordable Media None Selected
Webcam None Selected
Multimedia & Electronics None Selected
KIT PRICE: $ 1073.80
http://www.ascendtech.us
just a thought
Fluffy Bunny 1 Person SG
Rabid Bunny 1 Person VG
Both on Pinnacle
Hobbit's Hole 1 Person SG
Spider's Web 1 Person VG
Both on Freedom
Quote:
Sorry, got distracted by ... oh look ... |
Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
Oh, anything would be better. I have a Sony Vaio from 2004 (when I bought it to play this game!).
I've upgraded the RAM a few times and the graphics card, but I can't recall what my updates exactly were and I'm currently at work and can't check. I think your most recent example was good, Father Xmas, but if we could drop that by $100 or $200, I could validate it to the wife a lot easier. |
OK, updated the SP link and got the current price down to $830.
Major changes include ...
Going to the case I have in my $750 build, good case, lots of fans, not as super build friendly as the HAF 922 but still reasonable. -$20
Going to a single video card slot motherboard. Yes it looks like it has two slots but the 2nd one is really only x4. Still has SATA III and USB 3.0 ports. -$31.
Went with a smaller PSU since you can only have one video card. Still more power than you need but it's a good price. -$20
Went with a slower Phenom II X4 945 from the 965 (3.0 Vs 3.4GHz). -$30
Went with an HD 5770 over the GTX 260. -$65
Shaved a few dollars off with a different DVD burner and RAM, same as what's in my $750 build.
Not a lot of fat left to cut. The Phenom II X4 is better for games than the Athlon II X4 due to the 6MB of L3 memory cache. And dropping from 1TB to 500GB hard drive will only save you $20.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Damn, Xmas, that would have been perfect.
I speak in the past tense because... I bought one yesterday. I took all of your advice, but decided I would rather take the lazier, quicker way out and just buy it retail from Fry's.
I got this one.
$850 was my comfortable price range, and from what I had seen online, it didn't look like I would save any money building it myself, and while I may have ended up with better specs, it would have still been more than I needed.
I just hooked the PC up yesterday, and after all of the administrative file transferring from my old computer and re-adding all of my favorites (as well as manipulating my old desk to make it more comfortable - I chopped off the top shelf), I didn't have much time left to actually enjoy the PC!
I turned on CoH and checked out Ultra Mode... And didn't see that much difference. I guess I'm just not a graphics snob... I couldn't tell what was supposed to be improved. I guess maybe the water was good, but I haven't been impressed by that since Wave Race 64.
Maybe my "occlusion" and gizematics and jiggawatts aren't optimized.
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
Okay then. 
The i5-650 is a nice CPU. Blows away the previous Core 2 dual cores.
8GB is more than enough system memory.
The "eco" hard drive may hurt performance some.
The GT 320 is a cut down OEM variant of the GT 240. It only uses 45 watts and has about 60% of the shader power of a 9800GT. I'm surprised you got UM to work with any kind of reasonable frame rate.
The case is fanless, as far as I can tell. It relies on the PSU fan to suck the hot air out of the case and there is a duct that runs from the CPU fan to the side to suck in cool air. Make sure there is space on the left side of the case so the air flow isn't blocked.
The biggest obstacle in upgrading is the tiny 300 watt power supply. Replacing the GT 320 with anything would require an upgraded power supply, and a rear case fan (looks like either 80 or 92mm) for good measure.
Well enjoy.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
no monitor but a bit cheaper
http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0337323
Fluffy Bunny 1 Person SG
Rabid Bunny 1 Person VG
Both on Pinnacle
Hobbit's Hole 1 Person SG
Spider's Web 1 Person VG
Both on Freedom