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Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
And the other set grants unlimited endurance and unsuppressed stealth: Energy Armor.
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Hmm, Drain Endurance gives +25 End, but you have to wait until level 28 to get it. Whereas Fiery Aura gives you Consume at level 20, which means you could conceivably use it to Skip Stamina. So which Brute secondary really gives you "unlimited endurance?"
I'm not trying to pick on you, I'm just confused by how you see "unlimited endurance" in Energy Aura. Personally, having to wait until your late twenties or later for a Power Set to get good means it isn't good. I'd like my powers to provide some performance while I'm leveling, not at the "end game," which CoH really doesn't have.
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
This is all a call back to how this set was originally designed, as a Stalker set. I had to be kludged together quick to replace Ice Armor for Brutes in the initial release, and has been festering ever since...
The Devs really need to give both sets a very detailed once over. I'm pretty sure it could actually still be brought up to par without breaking the Cottage Rule... but it certainly isn't there now. |
I do totally agree that on paper at least there's a big difference between EA and other sets. EA appears to have modest defenses and low resists, and it takes quite a bit of time before it even builds those up. It doesn't get any "extras" until very late. By contrast, Invulnerability and Fiery Aura both get self-heals before level 4, and Dark Armor gets a self heal at level 16. Willpower gets Regen, +HP and +Recovery by level 16.
Whereas Energy Armor just plods a long getting small bits of Defense and Resistance and nothing extra to show for it. The "extra" it finally gets is Stealth at level 20, which is counter-intuitive for a Brute.
I don't know if moving the level at which a power is available breaks the Cottage Rule but I think moving some powers around might be needed to provide some more performance for EA in the early levels. This and buff the individual powers as well, many are far too weak on their own. The passive resists in particular need the Invulnerability treatment.
My 2 inf.
I took out my old Spines/Energy Aura Stalker out for a little test last night after I moved him from Virtue to Freedom (free character transfer!!).
I picked a Carnies mish thinking that my lethal damage will kill faster. I set +0 and 5 people game.
It went very well until I faced 3 Illuisionists + 1 Master Illusionist. I completely forgot how I have like no psionic defense/resistance at all. I was used to just hide and throw spines but those Illusionists killed me in 10s. I was completely unaware and of course it's my fault but I forgot how "big hole" this set has. I was murdering other carnies left and right and then boom, psionic damage pwns me faster than I imagined.
I love my Spine Stalker but I have yet to invest heavily on Psionic defense/resistance. To me, a Set should not be balanced out with set bonuses. Just like I've been saying that Merc Mastermind is under-performing if you don't count those procs in them.
I think /EA on Stalker is alright. It's very playable and the hole can be annoying. The heal is little unless there are more than 3 targets around you.
And still, I think /EA on Brute is more unique than on Stalker. /EA and /Dark are the only two sets that give Brute an unsuppressed stealth so that alone gives /EA a good reason if you want to play a stealthy Brute. Energy Aura on Stalker is just very easily overlooked when you have Ninjitsu and SR.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
And still, I think /EA on Brute is more unique than on Stalker. /EA and /Dark are the only two sets that give Brute an unsuppressed stealth so that alone gives /EA a good reason if you want to play a stealthy Brute.
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This too. I don't think we should necessarily try to change the fundamental themes of Brute EA. It's OK if the EA set doesn't quite live up to WP or Invul as a pure tanking set. But I also think EA is clearly under-performant in many regards and needs a boost, even if it doesn't get boosted all the way to WP's levels.
I think the first thing would be for us to agree on what's broken and then how it should be fixed. I'd like to see some thing done with EA that doesn't make it exactly the same as every other melee set.
For example, EA already has a theme of Endurance Reduction and +End, but that's kind of lack-luster, imo.
Invul has +ToHit (in Invincibility) and SD has +Dam (in AAO), both of which boost damage. Therefore:
What about some +Recharge for EA? To me, "energy efficiency" also means "runs better" or "purrs like a kitten," which +Recharge could represent. Also, I really like the global recharge on my Widow, and I can't think of any other melee defense set that provides global recharge, so it would be unique to EA also while indirectly boosting damage too, like Invul and SD do.
This is of course in addition to obvious performance boosts like adding more Def Resists, which I think has to be done no matter what.
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Are you sure you want to compare Energy Drain to Consume? Have you actually used both skills? One is on a 3 minute timer, the other is auto-hit and on a 1 minute timer-- and heals as well. |
Originally Posted by gameboy1234
Hmm, Drain Endurance gives +25 End, but you have to wait until level 28 to get it. Whereas Fiery Aura gives you Consume at level 20, which means you could conceivably use it to Skip Stamina. So which Brute secondary really gives you "unlimited endurance?"
I'm not trying to pick on you, I'm just confused by how you see "unlimited endurance" in Energy Aura. Personally, having to wait until your late twenties or later for a Power Set to get good means it isn't good. I'd like my powers to provide some performance while I'm leveling, not at the "end game," which CoH really doesn't have. |
And I really don't know what to say if level 28 is "end game" for you.
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
First, you obviously mean "for Brutes." And even then, that qualifier isn't likely to last forever.
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
Ice Armor will knock it out of the ball park. Add Ice Armor to the list of defenses a Brute can have, and it ends with a nice tier 9, and stealth - an aspect many people still criticize it for having.
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
The Devs really need to give both sets a very detailed once over. I'm pretty sure it could actually still be brought up to par without breaking the Cottage Rule... but it certainly isn't there now.
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SR, the original set that had quickness.|
Originally Posted by gameboy1234
Also, I really like the global recharge on my Widow, and I can't think of any other melee defense set that provides global recharge, so it would be unique to EA also while indirectly boosting damage too, like Invul and SD do.
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Electric armor, added later, was given quickness clone (called lightning reflexes)
And then later they add the VEATs and they get their own quickness clones called Mental Training.
Culex's resistance guide
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No... I admit I have not. That said, it will still be a Defense based set, that - with Energy Consumption - will likely also have 'unlimited endurance.' Which means it knocks out the only thing EA has going for it.|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
Have you looked at the values of Ice Armor relative to EA when converted to the Brute's 0.75 AT modifier? Ice isn't really all that great at Scrapper/Brute values.
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And again, I have to say - maintaining a full blue bar means very little if you can't keep your green bar full, too!
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Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
I've played EA and Electic Armor quite heavily-- and EA is most certainly tougher than Electric Armor in most gameplay. It's also tougher than Fire, but Fire is a completely different beast that relies on offense.
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I'll admit, I don't play my EA brute as much as I do my ElA... but still, Electric Armor has been VERY safe, and very fast. While my EA brute has to keep stopping and resting, or just seems to die when the RNG decides to hate me.
EA has been a slow and unfun experience for me so far.
Of course, this is based on them only using common IOs. I recently started frankenslotting my ElA brute, and have not been upset with the performance. But at this point, I think I'm shelving my EA until something gets changed.
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I want to like EA, but it does seem to be a tad bit anemic compared to other defense sets. It tries to be off-center and a little toolboxy, but it just doesn't offer enough in any area to compensate for its lack of focus. Compared to the somewhat similar Dark Armor for instance, it just fails to compete.
On the otherhand, I think it wouldn't take anything drastic to make this set very viable. The minor tweaks made a few issues ago (I forget which ish, but when ED got a heal added to it, and so forth) helped and were moves in the right direction, but just aren't quite enough.
One change that would immediately improve the set would be to make the DDR (or at least a chunk of it) enhanceable. If the set could get up to 75% DDR base not including t9 god mode, the cascading failure problem would be greatly reduced.
The other obvious target for improvement is the two resistance Autos. The low base numbers combined with the very limited damage types make these powers not worth taking. They simply don't do enough. Lots of things could be done with these two powers without breaking the Cottage Rule. An interesting idea might be to make them both grant 5% RES vs all damage types except psi, and 10% vs energy; enhancehable to ~16% vs all and ~32% vs energy if both were taken and fully slotted.
It doesn't make much difference mechanically, but thematically it would be nice if EA offered elevated levels of DEF vs energy specifically; perhaps even enough to softcap without IO's
As for END efficiency; Conserve Power just seems to be unneeded for this set in its current incarnation. It's redundant. It would be more interesting to see something like an AUTO effect that had a much milder global endurance reduction, similar to Quickness vis a vis recharge times. EDIT: an effect similar to the temp mutation Pain Tolerance, actually.
Just my $.02. I keep chisling away with EA for concept reasons hopping that my perseverance will one day be rewarded with a buff. This has panned out in the past with SR, Dark Armor, Invul, and I'm hoping it will again.
So one set is wicked survivable with 95% DDR (an amount that is broken IMO): Super Reflexes. One set has the lowest survivability and highest offense: Shield Defense. And the other set grants unlimited endurance and unsuppressed stealth: Energy Armor. Energy Armor also has the best tier 9 in all three.
Unlimited Endurance does not compensate for the holes in its overall protection. Not having to stop and rest to recover your blue bar means nothing if you have to keep stopping to recover your green bar!
This is all a call back to how this set was originally designed, as a Stalker set. I had to be kludged together quick to replace Ice Armor for Brutes in the initial release, and has been festering ever since. This is especially painful with the realization that EA isn't all that great for Stalker, whom it was designed for.
The Devs really need to give both sets a very detailed once over. I'm pretty sure it could actually still be brought up to par without breaking the Cottage Rule... but it certainly isn't there now.
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