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Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
I always wondered why Defender Nukes never received the same bonus from Vigilance as other powers. Yeah they get the endurance discount but that's a moot point when your drained of all your endurance afterwards.
I wonder how differently defenders would operate if Vigilance reduced the end drain after the nuke is launched. If Vigilance is at 45% then your nuke only reduces your end by 55 (100 - 45) during the crash. You'd still lose recovery but you'd still be operational too. Brainstorming on the matter, this would reward defenders for using their nukes as 'oh noez' buttons when the team is near death (when vigilance is more effective) and actually give them a reason for taking such a counter productive power. I play a kin/energy defender so my nuke is always capped damage due to fulcrum shift. I don't want to use it all the time or else im approaching blaster or scrapper spike damage because it's damage is still in the 'over-kill' range. but perhaps if this was implemented, Defender nukes could be reworked damage and recharge wise to tie in with vigilance. Such as a lower damage and lower recharge or possibly just a higher recharge so blasters don't feel like sad pandas? I didn't put this in the suggestions forum because I honestly don't have opinion either way. It would essentially just be useful only on Teams where Vigilance's end discount is around so Soloing is still painful for certain sets such as Sonic or FF. But it would help push defenders in another direction than corruptors and help them feel different.. we all wanna be special. I'd like to hear more opinions on this. I like my nuke. But thats probably because I'm always at my damage maximum. I know some don't like their nuke because it's weak(er than blasters) and crashes their endurance. That could kill their team if they are unable to heal or rebubble etc so it's not a good idea to nuke a spawn. opinions? thoughts? cakes? |
Nukes - perks outside of damage
Ice Blast - blaster level damage, Dot doing -20 tohit, -30 recharge, and -50% movment
Archery/AR/DP - no crash and quick recharge (comparatively)
Dark - -62.5 to hit as well as damage. So this soft caps the team basically
Elec - -55 endurance and -100 to recovery on targets.
Psi - Mag 3 15 Second stun and -87% recharge debuff
Rad - Mag 3 15 sec stun and - 50 defense to all
Sonic - Mag 3 15 sec stun and -20 resistance to all.
Energy - mag 20 knock back
My traps/sonic defender would drop the traps and nuke every single time it was up if that was implemented. Just doesn't need a lot of endurance and would net the team -20 resistance to all and a 15 second mag 3 stun every 3 minutes slotted.
Your own Kinetic energy can already Siphon>FS>nuke>blue>transferrance and that's out of the box. A /dark nuke is the biggest to hit buff in the game, rad blast nuke is the biggest def debuff in the game. Energy is kind of lack luster in this respect however.
Kinda off-topic (Sorry about that) but related to Vigilance
Why can't we have a bar that fills up (ala Fury, Domination) that shows the amount of endurance reduction we are getting at the time? Then you could actually guage your team's "squishy-ness" simply by seeing how much blue they are saving you 
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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So? How would that be anymore overpowered than what trick arrow already does: -40% resistance. Every 3 minutes isn't that big a deal.|
Originally Posted by Late2Party
Nukes - perks outside of damage
Ice Blast - blaster level damage, Dot doing -20 tohit, -30 recharge, and -50% movment Archery/AR/DP - no crash and quick recharge (comparatively) Dark - -62.5 to hit as well as damage. So this soft caps the team basically Elec - -55 endurance and -100 to recovery on targets. Psi - Mag 3 15 Second stun and -87% recharge debuff Rad - Mag 3 15 sec stun and - 50 defense to all Sonic - Mag 3 15 sec stun and -20 resistance to all. Energy - mag 20 knock back My traps/sonic defender would drop the traps and nuke every single time it was up if that was implemented. Just doesn't need a lot of endurance and would net the team -20 resistance to all and a 15 second mag 3 stun every 3 minutes slotted. Your own Kinetic energy can already Siphon>FS>nuke>blue>transferrance and that's out of the box. A /dark nuke is the biggest to hit buff in the game, rad blast nuke is the biggest def debuff in the game. Energy is kind of lack luster in this respect however. |
Personally, I don't care either way if this was implemented or not. It wouldn't change much other than some more people actually taking and using their nukes.
Does anyone actually use their nuke for the debuff? Or a more accurate question: do you use your nuke at the right timing to use the debuff? Do you slot to enhance the debuff portion?
So far Defender nukes do less damage that a blasters. Thisi s normal and I wouldn't change that. But it's implied use isn't part of the defender's overall role: buff/debuff/heal/DEFEND.
I'd just like to see some theorycraft about how this would change the way defenders are played on teams if at all. I doubt it would change much but new things and ways of play are fun.
P.S. Biospark's idea is genious.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
I dont use my Nuke at all.
A) It doesnt do enough damage to qualify as a "nuke"
B) My team role is jeapordized if I am OOM (no endurance)
C) The secondary effect of the nuke can be achieved thru other powers which don't crash my blue bar.
IF they removed the crash, then I would seriously consider the power as part of my build.
They could;
A) Make the cost of the power 99 endurance and make it enhanceble (allowing us to reduce the cost to just under 50 endurance.
B) Make it truely crashless (cost 49 endurance or less) but reduce the damage somewhat, which makes it usable for both damage AND the secondary effect
C) Increase the damage to blaster levels and leave the crash the way it is (See StratoNexus's proposal thread)
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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This is what my Storm/Dark does: Steamy Mist/Maneuvers/Fly/Temp Invuln/Hurricane, fly about pulling the mob to a nice herding spot for the 2-4 mobs worth. Once in herding location I summon Lightning Storm while the enemies are coming while turning Hover on (and Fly off) and hurricane off. When the enemies are where I want them, Freezing Rain. Then floating to the middle of the group hitting Power Build Up then Blackstar slotted for damage.|
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
So? How would that be anymore overpowered than what trick arrow already does: -40% resistance. Every 3 minutes isn't that big a deal.
Personally, I don't care either way if this was implemented or not. It wouldn't change much other than some more people actually taking and using their nukes. Does anyone actually use their nuke for the debuff? Or a more accurate question: do you use your nuke at the right timing to use the debuff? Do you slot to enhance the debuff portion? So far Defender nukes do less damage that a blasters. Thisi s normal and I wouldn't change that. But it's implied use isn't part of the defender's overall role: buff/debuff/heal/DEFEND. I'd just like to see some theorycraft about how this would change the way defenders are played on teams if at all. I doubt it would change much but new things and ways of play are fun. P.S. Biospark's idea is genious. |
Result: over 500 damage (without FR regards) and -124% To-Hit Debuff (that's no To-Hit Debuff slotted, only out of the box and PBU). Yeah, that's generally how I do my Ouroboros defeat alls in the upper level range. Switch my nuke for Nightfall/TT when it's down or it's only a 1 mob spawn. It's all pretty delicious in my book. Other things that I can do depending on enemy group and whatnot, I can Dark Pit them before nuking or hit Force of Nature to have crazy resists while my defense via toggles is shot.
I also would love to see a Vigilance bar, especially if there was a (regardless of team size) proportional values of End Redux to Damage. A zero on the meter means 100% of the damage increase (not saying 100% dmg buff, but 100% of the dmg buff) with 0% end redux and as allies are hurt, having it effect the % end redux and dmg buff. But that'd require (another) revision to Vigilance after they just did something with it.
50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Biospark
Kinda off-topic (Sorry about that) but related to Vigilance
Why can't we have a bar that fills up (ala Fury, Domination) that shows the amount of endurance reduction we are getting at the time? |
because vigilance and any scaling end discount mechanic is completely pointless and not worth the time for a decent buff that requires thought.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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Well...You can already do this with the power monitoring feature. For that matter I already do. Just set it to monitor the endurance discount and damage bonus and it constantly shows what it currently is. Granted its not a graphical bar but a numerical value.
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Originally Posted by StormyDarkness
I also would love to see a Vigilance bar, especially if there was a (regardless of team size) proportional values of End Redux to Damage. A zero on the meter means 100% of the damage increase (not saying 100% dmg buff, but 100% of the dmg buff) with 0% end redux and as allies are hurt, having it effect the % end redux and dmg buff. But that'd require (another) revision to Vigilance after they just did something with it.
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Quote:
You can already monitor your end discount |
Originally Posted by Biospark
Kinda off-topic (Sorry about that) but related to Vigilance
Why can't we have a bar that fills up (ala Fury, Domination) that shows the amount of endurance reduction we are getting at the time? Then you could actually guage your team's "squishy-ness" simply by seeing how much blue they are saving you |
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Quote:
Hmmm, I had not thought about the monitor categories. Thanks for the tip |
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
You can already monitor your end discount
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I currently run 10 different items on the monitor, so I would have to decide which one to drop.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
What I monitor varies, and some characters don't use it. Usually though I'll keep tabs on Recovery, End Consumption, and samples of def/resist. I say samples cause I don't keep tabs on them all. On my ice tanker for example I monitor smashing defense (but not lethal since it's the same), cold resist (usually capped), fire resist, and energy defense.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
I always wondered why Defender Nukes never received the same bonus from Vigilance as other powers. Yeah they get the endurance discount but that's a moot point when your drained of all your endurance afterwards.
I wonder how differently defenders would operate if Vigilance reduced the end drain after the nuke is launched. If Vigilance is at 45% then your nuke only reduces your end by 55 (100 - 45) during the crash. You'd still lose recovery but you'd still be operational too.
Brainstorming on the matter, this would reward defenders for using their nukes as 'oh noez' buttons when the team is near death (when vigilance is more effective) and actually give them a reason for taking such a counter productive power.
I play a kin/energy defender so my nuke is always capped damage due to fulcrum shift. I don't want to use it all the time or else im approaching blaster or scrapper spike damage because it's damage is still in the 'over-kill' range. but perhaps if this was implemented, Defender nukes could be reworked damage and recharge wise to tie in with vigilance. Such as a lower damage and lower recharge or possibly just a higher recharge so blasters don't feel like sad pandas?
I didn't put this in the suggestions forum because I honestly don't have opinion either way. It would essentially just be useful only on Teams where Vigilance's end discount is around so Soloing is still painful for certain sets such as Sonic or FF. But it would help push defenders in another direction than corruptors and help them feel different.. we all wanna be special.
I'd like to hear more opinions on this. I like my nuke. But thats probably because I'm always at my damage maximum. I know some don't like their nuke because it's weak(er than blasters) and crashes their endurance. That could kill their team if they are unable to heal or rebubble etc so it's not a good idea to nuke a spawn.
opinions? thoughts? cakes?
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484