Demon Summon/Dark WHIP based build?
By
Alef_infinity,
Posted on: 2010-08-10 06:49 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Probably, if you're willing to have a very tight build--since you'll want nearly everything from both Demon Summoning and Dark Miasma (Black Hole is the only skippable power). The whips actually have a worthwhile -res debuff on them. Those attacks can be endurance intensive though. Also, you'll have to skip most of your patron pool powers or travel powers (I really wouldn't consider skipping Fitness in a build that uses personal attacks).
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Originally Posted by Jonas1974
I am wondering if anyone has any builds/ideas concerning a whip based Demon Summoning/Dark Miasma Mastermind.
I really enjoy the whip attacks, and am wondering if a build centered around them, with the pets as "help" is viable. |
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I have a Demon/Dark that I pursued this with, but only after I had gotten to about lvl 23-24, then I made a secondary build, using all 3 whip attacks, in exchange, I did not summon the minions, only the lieutenants and now the Demon Prince. Its a fine soloing build. I however think if I would have tried it from level one that way I would have given up due to pitiful damage. Even slotted for max damage those whip attacks are not impressive. I still have my main build, that I have no whip attacks on, that I team with. But I solo with the secondary build and I think it is also fun.
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Originally Posted by Jonas1974
I am wondering if anyone has any builds/ideas concerning a whip based Demon Summoning/Dark Miasma Mastermind.
I really enjoy the whip attacks, and am wondering if a build centered around them, with the pets as "help" is viable. |
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While not a Demons/Dark, my Demons/Trap uses the whips somewhat, but that's mostly as something to do in between doing other stuff, not to mention concept reasons (Indy Jones wannabe suffering from a curse that gives her demonic traits including the ability to summon them). So far, I only have two (the 80-ft one, and the cone), and I'm not sure I'll bother picking up the third. I don't do it for the damage. If I did, I would give up in despair. To me, it's just a way to add a little extra -res debuff.
Actually, it doesn't look too bad, if your willing to stick with Twilight Grasp as your only heal. And with the Ember Demon... that can work. Strictly number of powers wise, you are using 17 out of 24 (ignoring Black Hole, of course.) 16 if you decide against Petrifying Gaze.
That leaves room for the fitness pool (3 powers) and a travel pool (2 powers), and 2 or 3 other powers.
SLOTS may be your issue, but if you only stick to 3 or 4 slots in your attacks (you aren't using them for damage, anyway) you should be golden.
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Huh? What other heal would you be using? Medicine pool? With the extremely slow interruptable heals?|
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
Actually, it doesn't look too bad, if your willing to stick with Twilight Grasp as your only heal. And with the Ember Demon... that can work.
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Strictly number of powers wise, you are using 17 out of 24 (ignoring Black Hole, of course.) 16 if you decide against Petrifying Gaze. That leaves room for the fitness pool (3 powers) and a travel pool (2 powers), and 2 or 3 other powers. |
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| SLOTS may be your issue, but if you only stick to 3 or 4 slots in your attacks (you aren't using them for damage, anyway) you should be golden. |
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Yes. I've found that the Mastermind version of Twilight Grasp to be... lacking. The limited radius - necessitating that I be right next to the pet I wish to heal, the inability to use it outside of combat, and the tendency of the Henchmen to bolt out of range after, or for it to miss... just makes it fall short of what I need a MM heal to do. It's great for healing ME, not so much for keeping the pets going. So yeah, I look to Aid Other when I can fit it in, when building for Force Fields, Traps, Trick Arrow... and yes, Dark Miasma.|
Originally Posted by Alef_infinity
Huh? What other heal would you be using? Medicine pool? With the extremely slow interruptable heals?
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That said, the Ember Demon is capable of healing, making it easier to skip Aid Other when Demons are involved.
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Originally Posted by Alef_infinity
Good idea there to slot the attacks lightly. I'll be using that idea on my DS/Traps MM.
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Gods know that heal is a huge pain on my Necro/Dark. Maybe I'll try taking it, but the animation time looks too slow to save the tier 1 henchies, though it could work for tier 2 and high.|
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
Yes. I've found that the Mastermind version of Twilight Grasp to be... lacking. The limited radius - necessitating that I be right next to the pet I wish to heal, the inability to use it outside of combat, and the tendency of the Henchmen to bolt out of range after, or for it to miss... just makes it fall short of what I need a MM heal to do. It's great for healing ME, not so much for keeping the pets going. So yeah, I look to Aid Other when I can fit it in, when building for Force Fields, Traps, Trick Arrow... and yes, Dark Miasma.
That said, the Ember Demon is capable of healing, making it easier to skip Aid Other when Demons are involved. |
Then again, since the undead are mostly melee oriented, I can just order them to focus on a single target and then heal them there. Still a pain though.
I'm still a little cross about what they did to the MM Twilight Grasp. Rather an annoying nerf.
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| You're welcome. The Whip attacks are great for the Resistance debuff effect, but their damage is just as anemic as all other Mastermind attacks. So you aren't using them for damage - slot Accuracy, Endurance Reduction, and maybe Recharge. Of course, with only a few slots, Frankenslotting may be your best bet... |
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Yeah. The nerf to TG still makes no sense to me.|
Originally Posted by Alef_infinity
Gods know that heal is a huge pain on my Necro/Dark. Maybe I'll try taking it, but the animation time looks too slow to save the tier 1 henchies, though it could work for tier 2 and high.
Then again, since the undead are mostly melee oriented, I can just order them to focus on a single target and then heal them there. Still a pain though. I'm still a little cross about what they did to the MM Twilight Grasp. Rather an annoying nerf. |
That said, I've found Aid Other sufficient for keeping all tier pets alive and kicking, myself. Then again, I mainly use it for topping them off between battles; I trust in their damage output and/or other defenses to keep them going in a fight. When my pets start dropping like flies, I usually disengage first, to come back with a full force and a new plan.
Still, if your Necro, you may just want to tough it out until you get the second upgrade - that gives all your pets some form of self heal. If they are still being wiped out after that, then you need to look into alternatives.
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Originally Posted by Alef_infinity
Yeah, going to play with that when my Demons/Traps gets to a higher level where it would be more worth taking the time to do frankenslotting (since the early levels go so fast I've found early frankenslotting to not be worth it).
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I've found that if I can get all of my -tohit stacked up on the enemies, I barely need the heals. It's when fights start getting chaotic, anchors dropping, and so on that my undead start dropping (and even then I usually only lose a zombie or two, occasionally a Knight when things get intense). I probably need to develop some strategies to deal with this. Dark Servant should help--my Necro/Dark is 33 or so, but doesn't yet have Dark Servant.|
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
Yeah. The nerf to TG still makes no sense to me.
That said, I've found Aid Other sufficient for keeping all tier pets alive and kicking, myself. Then again, I mainly use it for topping them off between battles; I trust in their damage output and/or other defenses to keep them going in a fight. When my pets start dropping like flies, I usually disengage first, to come back with a full force and a new plan. Still, if your Necro, you may just want to tough it out until you get the second upgrade - that gives all your pets some form of self heal. If they are still being wiped out after that, then you need to look into alternatives. Generally, I wait until I'm 25+ to start Frankenslotting. I know that by the numbers, it's wise to do that starting around level 12... but I find it more trouble than its worth before I can start getting the level 25 IOs. After that, its Frankenslot away until I'm ready to work to my final build, around level 45+. |
Basically, I just need to develop better strategies, I guess. Indeed, I started seeing better results later in my solo session than early on (I hadn't soloed on her for a long time).
Yeah, I tried frankenslotting early on my Demons/Traps. But only got as far as partially slotting up the tier 1 pets. Just playing her's better, she's been getting levels quickly enough. I gave up and just threw DOs into her powers.
I am working a semi pet-less build with Demon / Traps. Simple reason I went Traps is I am able to get the defense cap easier and Trip Mine makes a decent attack with enough recharge.
I do have the last pet and also will be picking up detonator.
It is a theme build basically sinister little geeky girl with a pet demon named charlie.. Which she blows up from time to time.
You need to pick up stamina asap.
I do not think you can do a whip attack based toon any other way. Again simply because of the defenses and attacks Traps offers.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
I am wondering if anyone has any builds/ideas concerning a whip based Demon Summoning/Dark Miasma Mastermind.
I really enjoy the whip attacks, and am wondering if a build centered around them, with the pets as "help" is viable.