Dr. Kahn TF (Master Run) - 07/14/2010 10AM EST

I would like to run a Dr. Kahn TF (Master Run) on Wednesday, July 14th at 10AM EST. Since this will be my first master attempt and third time I run this TF overall, I find myself not very well versed on this TF (other than mission info from ParagonWiki).

I do remember the final AV's and I spent the last couple of hours thinking about what team configuration would best suit this TF run.

Therefore, this is what I am looking for:

2 Tanks (one for Reichsman and the other would work on the other AV)
4 Support Toons (2 healers 1 for each of the tanks for the final AV battles and the other two I would prefer debuff)
1 Blaster (me)
1 Other (can be anything at this point, but my guess either another damage dealer or a scrapper for melee).

If you feel my logic is flawed let me know. I am going off memory of the last time I ran this and I tried to organize a regular run this past weekend with no luck.

So, if you are interested, please reply and I will add you on to the list.

Roster

1. Armeros (fire x 3 blaster)
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.

ALTERNATES

1.
2.
3.
4.


Thank you

Would prefer to bring Zappy (blaster). Could alt if necessary but she's my badger.


Yes I will put it on a calendar and not start a Dr Q instead.

I should be able to make it.
American Mage Illusion / Rad

Hopefully, we can get a full squad together, Capa and give this a good run. I put your badge toon in (and that was the wild card slot). Now, I just need to fill the rest and we are good. =)

Roster

1. @Armeros (Armeros Fire x 3 Blaster)
2. @Capa Devans (Blaster)
3. @Blood_Beret (American Mage - Illusion / Rad)
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.

ALTERNATES

1. @Blacjac84 (1st choice - DB/WP scrapper) (Alternates: Emp Defender / Kin Troller)
2.
3.
4.

Put me down for a possible. I work that night, but if I recall, this can be done in less than two hours. I'm flexible as to what I can bring in, but my first choice is my DB/WP scrapper. I do have an emp def and a kin troller.

I can bring my fire/fire tank.. Wednesday.. Im off so I can be here

i should be able to bring either morr gan, inv/ss/nrg tank, or la feye, ill/emp/fire troller, depending on what's needed.

edit: d'oh keep thinking tanks have body mastery instead of energy.

Added you folks on, 3 more spots up for grabs. Hopefully the first run will be the winner!

Roster

1. @Armeros (Armeros Fire x 3 Blaster)
2. @Capa Devans (Blaster)
3. @Blood_Beret (American Mage - Illusion / Rad)
4. @Crindon (Fire/Fire Tank)
5. @MorrGan (Inv/SS/Body Tank) or (Illusion / Emp Controller)
6.
7.
8.

ALTERNATES

1. @Blacjac84 (1st choice - DB/WP scrapper) (Alternates: Emp Defender / Kin Troller)
2.
3.
4.

Well we have 5 (6 if Blacjac can make it), so we will be needing to pick up a couple of folks for this run. Even though this TF can be run with 4, I don't see how the final room can be done with 4 alone. Hopefully, the community can help round out the open spots.

See you later this morning.

I'll be there. Would like to bring my scrapper, but like I said, I'm flexible.

Cool, Blacjac

If I can fill the squad with support toons, then I dont see a problem with bringing your scrapper. I know heals/debuffs will be needed for the end section.

had fun. la feye must bring more break away inspirations since she's only toon with clear mind. stun was a real pain in the last mish for me.

squishies need to stay back but a healer also needs to be near tanks/scrappers for healing in that small space leading to toons of mooks/warwolves/vamps.

party needs to stay together for healing, buffs, and protections not going in two or 3 directions. very distracting to try and heal someone not in group. got me and a couple folks killed.

above true for all tf and mish though. still it was fun and can't wait to try again.

Thanks for the feedback MorrGan.
It went well for a first attempt, 14 deaths but lots of notes taken and next run will be a bit smoother.

Here was the final roster:

Armeros @Armeros (Fire x 3 Blaster)
Ms Zappy Flame @Capa Devans (Elec/Fire/Elec Blaster)
American Mage @Blood Beret (Ill/Rad/Psi Controller)
jray @jray (Inv/SS/Energy Tank)
Silver Sun @Crindon (Fire/Fire Tank)
Spring Bliss @Granite Girl (Plant/Sonic/Stone Controller)
La Feye @Morr Gan (Ill/Emp/Fire Controller)
Shettayim Lahab @Blacjac84 (Scrapper)

Thanks again, I may try to run this again this weekend, if not next weekend for sure. Please if anyone else has some feedback, it will help in future Master runs.

It was fun.. sucks that we didnt get the Masters thou..

We did learn something, like bottle necking the AV and the mob around him at the end of the first mish..

That and I believe on the 2nd (I think its the second) to pop a oro portal or only have melee go in to destroy the portals..

Don't know how much of this is useful but when I look at the LGs I look for:

First, foremost and above all: people who know their characters, and will follow instructions.

Then I look for;

A) At least two taunting tanks. They can pull aggro and do it from a distance. When I'm tanking if I see health going down, I target that person and taunt. (If I can't immediately see who is hitting them.) Also if one tank is above the aggro cap, at least there is still aggro-collection from tank two. With the Reichs/AVs in the final mission you might want three tanks. (Two for Reichs and one for the AV. When Jbad went down and Reichs was loose that was a scary moment.)

B) Mez removal - CM/ID/Clarity/the other one I forget. Arachnos are much like Rikti for mezzing. That can get you dead fast. As I know the last LG run where Hami wapped me. Stun, can't retreat, dead. Empathy is lovely because of Fort/Auras etc.

C) Debuffs - rad/dark anything nasty like that and preferably two. I'd like to see at least three on that run next time.

D) Buffs - I like kin because of FS, I don't give a stuff about SB. If you don't have a dark with HT or Twilight grasp then the -regen from transfusion is handy. FS will be less use to you against Reich so you may prefer a rad or dark.

Heals come under buffs. If you have a kin you have melee covered and if you have a rad or dark (unless it's my rad) you have range covered.

E) Shields - If they are available, I'll take them.

You are obviously going to need DPS with the idiotic amount of health Reichs has.

This will get me shot but; I'm not fond of blasters/scrappers on the MoLGs. I'd rather have other ATs.
Nor am I fond of SB/SSing teams. They tend to split up and that gets people killed. Not thrilled with vent-usage either.

That run specifically:

A) There wasn't any dumb member of the team but I didn't feel it gel'd well. Probably because quite a few of us don't know that TF too well. That just takes time.

B) Secondly, there was a fair bit of scatter. I play with the map open and the mission with the portals then Unbeatable Reichsman was ... sorry ... a mess. You had people trying to just get the portals, a tank then going to help them leaving the rest of the team to deal with aggro.

If something can be stealthed safely then fine, but we all need to know that's going to happen in advance and we all need to be safe (stealther and rest of the team).

I suggest on that mission, either we all stick together or one tank gets the portals while the rest of the team stick together near the exit. When Reich spawns a tank can get his aggro. This will depend if a solo tank can hold his aggro. Not beat him of course.

C) Not enough clarity of instructions. Or listening to them. Ok yes some of this is 'feel your way' (my early MoLGs were like a discussion group) but the instance of the tunnel is a perfect example.

I suggested the tanks pull into that tunnel after the first restart. We still had people in that tunnel (rather than in the room and out of line of sight) on the second run. Where people died. Again. And the same on the third run.

That is a horrible room entrance. But if the team is out of line of sight and the tanks taunt a few into the bottleneck it should go much more smoothly. Conversely because it IS a bottleneck if you have squishies there they are going to die.The tanks have to hold the line and they can't do that if you have eight people crowded in there.

Let the tanks taunt, get aggro then chuck a fireball or something at the mob.

Yes I am awkward about this; follow the instructions. Or provide a better idea if you don't want to do that. But don't just do your own thing and wait for the death.

D) Reichsman took far too long. Not enough debuffage.

I hate to admit it, but you may be better off without the 2nd blaster or scrapper on the team. My theory is that end nuke Reichs did crucified a fair few of the team. Well if you don't have melee chars then they aren't going to have to take that on.

And that probably killed my chance of getting MoKhan on my blaster on the next run. But it's the truth. She doesn't have MoLG either because I keep alting off her to get another char of mine which is more useful to the run.

Conclusion:

The above probably sounds like it was an awful run. It wasn't. It was a decent run with good people. But we need polish to smooth it out. Hope the above helps. If not, I look forward to /gignore.

1st Mission:
Getting to and through Cithy Hall is pretty strait forward. Tanks need to stay closer to the side rooms, so aggro won't get out of control. This was not really an issue on this run. But it could be on future runs.

Doors. Tank need to enter all doors first. Seconded by Scrappers, then Support and Blasters.

Mission 1A: 5Th Column. No one in the Hallway but Tank. AoE of 5th Column can easily get any squishy, even if tank has aggro. Scrappers could be ready to go next to help with damage. ALso With Illusion Controllers, drop PA(Decoys) in the Hall. When the fodder is gone, dog pile AV and clean up.

MIssion 2: Portals in Boomtown.
As mentioned this was a Cluster $^%)#. Many ways this can be done. Stealth and TP or as Capa Suggested.

Then at the Last portal, drop Ouros. You can exit via Ouro instead of Mission Exit. Tanks should stay until the message arrives, then exit. Maybe an Emp or Thermal with Targeted Heal would stay with the tank.

Mission 3: Boss and Glowie
Can and should be Stealth and TP. This would reduce the chance of a death.

Mission 4: Axis America
Let those with stealth scout. Some portals are not guarded. We can use TP for the ones with Guards.

Reichsman's Base:
Take out the Mob up top with you. Nit much to say there.

It seemed that everyone jump or flew down to the bottom. To the left of the entrance is a catwalk/fire escape structure to walk down. This is safer and less risk.

When you leave that pit, go to the left, as the right is a dead end. Once you leave that area the map loops so it doesn't matter which way you go.

This is where the biggest difference between teh Hero and Villain versions. A Tank and a Single Target healer should stay on Reichsman at all times. THe healer needs to stay back so as to avoid being hit.

Everyone should be attacking Reichsman, until AV voices are heard. Then all but Team Reichsman takes on that AV.

Support Suggestions.

Thermal: Even though there are 2 debuffs, I'd classify it as a buffer.
Warmth PBAoE, Team Heal
Fire Shield Ranged, Ally +Res(Smash, Lethal, Fire, Cold)
Cauterize Ranged, Ally Heal
Plasma Shield Ranged, Ally +Res(Fire, Energy, Negative)
Power of the Phoenix Close, Ally Rez, Special(Targeted AoE, Extreme DoT(Fire), Foe Disorient, Knockback)
Thaw Ranged, Ally +Res(Cold, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immobilize, Fear, Confusion, Slow)
Forge Ranged, Ally +DMG, +To-Hit
Heat Exhaustion Ranged, Foe -DMG, -End, -Recovery, -Regen
Melt Armor Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe -DEF(All), -Res(All)

Cold Domination: There are some good buffs, but I want to point out the Debuffs
Infrigidate Ranged, Foe -Recharge, -SPD, -DEF(All), -DMG(Fire)
Ice Shield Ranged, Ally +DEF(Smash, Lethal, Melee), +Res(Fire, Cold)
Snow Storm Toggle: Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe -Recharge, -SPD, -Fly
Glacial Shield Ranged, Ally +DEF(Energy, Negative, Ranged, AoE), +Res(Cold)
Frostwork Ranged, Ally +Max Health, +Res(Toxic)
Arctic Fog Toggle: PBAoE, Team Stealth, +DEF(All), +Res(Fire, Cold, Energy, Slow)
Benumb 18 28 Ranged, Foe -DMG, -End, -Regen, -Special*
Sleet 26 35 Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT(Cold), Foe -Recharge, -SPD, -DEF(All), -Res(All)
Heat Loss Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe -End, -SPD, -Res(All), Team +End, +Recovery

*The target's powers' effects like heals, defense buffs, endurance drains, disorients, holds, immobilizes, knockbacks and more, are all weakened

Most people know all about the other major support sets. But thought I would point those out.

Thank you all for your input.
I will sit down this weekend and put together a better plan now that we have a better feel for the TF.

I will post a new run, more than likely next weekend in the AM EST.

Hopefully, the lessons learned in this run will help us achieve the Master badge in a future run(s).

Sadly I have no Thermal or Cold Domination Heroes. I was playing with Mids, and I may build a Grav/Thermal Controller. But more than likely it won't be ready for next week. Especially slotted decently.

I was looking into Cold Domination, and figured I did not want o clone my villain, so he will wait until GR and be Rogue.

Capa and Blood, sent you a PM. When you get a chance, can you please review it and provide any additional feedback.

Thanks

Will do, likely be tomorrow though if not Monday.