Dark Melee is too epic.
By
Abe_Froman,
Posted on: 2010-07-09 21:48 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Do you have 235% +rech in Midnight Grasp (factoring in global buffs and enhancement)? If not, keep Shadow Punch: as a Brute you want to have a saturated attack string so you can generate that Fury. If you do (which is doubtful since you're WP and you don't really get anything from +rech defensively), the I would get rid of SP and switch to the MG>Smite>Siphon>Smite attack string (from the MG>Smite>SP>Siphon>Smite>SP string you should be using now).
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Originally Posted by SPiNE
So, should I respec out of Shadow Punch? I don't think I can get a complete chain without Shadow Punch and its quick recharge =|
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Guess I'll be keeping that Shadow Punch afterall. My current attack chain is actually SP>MG>Smite>SP>Siphon>Smite and then restart with SP>MG...It's pretty much the same string that you proposed, actually, I will try out your attack string and see if it yields any significance.
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Originally Posted by Umbral
Do you have 235% +rech in Midnight Grasp (factoring in global buffs and enhancement)? If not, keep Shadow Punch: as a Brute you want to have a saturated attack string so you can generate that Fury. If you do (which is doubtful since you're WP and you don't really get anything from +rech defensively), the I would get rid of SP and switch to the MG>Smite>Siphon>Smite attack string (from the MG>Smite>SP>Siphon>Smite>SP string you should be using now).
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It shouldn't really. Your attack string will build a bit of Fury before hitting with MG, but, in the end, it wouldn't really matter substantially.
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Originally Posted by SPiNE
I will try out your attack string and see if it yields any significance.
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From playing my dark/dark and dark/regen scrappers, I personally love shadow maul. Yeah the attack animation seems long, but I've gotten fairly good at lining up those narrow cones. And there's just something intensely satisfying about hitting the target cap with shadow maul... when your at the damage cap. Now if only my vet Sands of Mu could get damage boosts, and flurry was worth using. I recall an interesting Flash style concept char who uses those three as the entire attack chain.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Yea, no matter what anyone says, I still keep Shadow Maul in there. Of course, I don't use it until my Fury is 80+ but still, it definitely is powerful.
Now, on the Scrapper's and Stalker's version, each individual punch from Shadow Maul should have a chance to crit, that would definitely make it worthwhile! I've never made a Dark Melee Scrapper or Stalker though...if Shadow Maul does crit, does the crit text show up at the end of Shadow Maul or along with every tic?
Spine,
Scrapper Crit on Shadow Maul shows up as a lump sum at the end.
On your brute, something to consider later is adding Gloom from Soul Mastery to your attack chain along with heavy use of Darkest Night.
When hasten is up, my DM/WP's chain is MG, Siphon Life, Gloom, Smite, repeat. Darkest Night's 21% dam-res debuff adds considerable mitigation on top of that.
Be well, people of CoH.
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My dark melee scrappers? I can't recall shadow maul ever critting. But then, it does some crazy good damage anyway.
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Originally Posted by SPiNE
Yea, no matter what anyone says, I still keep Shadow Maul in there. Of course, I don't use it until my Fury is 80+ but still, it definitely is powerful.
Now, on the Scrapper's and Stalker's version, each individual punch from Shadow Maul should have a chance to crit, that would definitely make it worthwhile! I've never made a Dark Melee Scrapper or Stalker though...if Shadow Maul does crit, does the crit text show up at the end of Shadow Maul or along with every tic? |
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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Probably because as Bill said it happens 2 seconds after the attacks so you've moved on to other attacks and assume the critical hit was for them.
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Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
My dark melee scrappers? I can't recall shadow maul ever critting. But then, it does some crazy good damage anyway.
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I doubt it. I'd be noticing a crit damage that's higher then the actual attack. I've long been under the impression that Shadow Maul can't crit, because it doesn't seem to.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Probably because as Bill said it happens 2 seconds after the attacks so you've moved on to other attacks and assume the critical hit was for them.
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EDIT: I've seen the old Swipe crit, so know what it should look like.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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You don't think Shadow Maul can crit? It does crit... I have seen it on my Scrapper many times. It's always kind of goofy when it happens, as I'm expecting to need a new attack, and all of a sudden the foe I'm targeting drops. The real numbers in game has it noted as well, so it should be working.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
I doubt it. I'd be noticing a crit damage that's higher then the actual attack. I've long been under the impression that Shadow Maul can't crit, because it doesn't seem to.
EDIT: I've seen the old Swipe crit, so know what it should look like. |
I haven't played him in a couple months, so if it has stopped working, that should be a bug.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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I doubt shadow maul can crit personally, because in five years it hasn't critted for me. Not once. I could be wrong, and just incredibly unlucky. However I throw it out frequently.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
You don't think Shadow Maul can crit? It does crit... I have seen it on my Scrapper many times. It's always kind of goofy when it happens, as I'm expecting to need a new attack, and all of a sudden the foe I'm targeting drops. The real numbers in game has it noted as well, so it should be working.
I haven't played him in a couple months, so if it has stopped working, that should be a bug. |
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
UPDATE
Well what do you know, it finally critted after five years. Only took running several missions using ONLY shadow maul. I wonder if the crit chance is getting applied to the next attack after shadow maul usually?
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
You've just not noticed SM criticals. It hasn't been not critting just for you for five years.
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Oh, I'm pretty sure I'd notice a 160 point kachunk off an enemy. Especially with the word CRITICAL in orange letters.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
You've just not noticed SM criticals. It hasn't been not critting just for you for five years.
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"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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Except that it lands 2 seconds after you start the attack, it's blurred behind a wall of DoT ticks if you use it as an AoE rather than a single target attack, and most people that use Shadow Maul intelligently generally kill their target before the last tick lands anyway.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Oh, I'm pretty sure I'd notice a 160 point kachunk off an enemy. Especially with the word CRITICAL in orange letters.
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I know for a fact that Shadow Maul has been critting ever since Scrappers got access to it as an inherent. Very few people actually notice it for the exact reasons given above (assuming you don't trust the real numbers). I doubt most Scrappers notice when they crit on any AoE, much less one that throws up 8 damage numbers before the crit.
You're assuming some incredibly back luck if you've somehow never gotten a Shadow Maul crit and been using it for any reasonable period of time. Chances are substantially better that they've happened, but you've never noticed them (unless you want to make the claim that you're somehow incapable of not seeing a crit amidst a really chaotic fight). At best, you've simply learned to kill targets with the first 2-3 ticks of Shadow Maul so they've never survived to check the crit, but, even then, I find it more likely that they've happened but you just haven't noticed them (because, honestly, how likely is it that you've never left a survivor from a Shadow Maul).
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This. It's possible to not get the crit or to miss it, but it does happen. |
Originally Posted by Umbral
Except that it lands 2 seconds after you start the attack, it's blurred behind a wall of DoT ticks if you use it as an AoE rather than a single target attack, and most people that use Shadow Maul intelligently generally kill their target before the last tick lands anyway.
I know for a fact that Shadow Maul has been critting ever since Scrappers got access to it as an inherent. Very few people actually notice it for the exact reasons given above (assuming you don't trust the real numbers). I doubt most Scrappers notice when they crit on any AoE, much less one that throws up 8 damage numbers before the crit. You're assuming some incredibly back luck if you've somehow never gotten a Shadow Maul crit and been using it for any reasonable period of time. Chances are substantially better that they've happened, but you've never noticed them (unless you want to make the claim that you're somehow incapable of not seeing a crit amidst a really chaotic fight). At best, you've simply learned to kill targets with the first 2-3 ticks of Shadow Maul so they've never survived to check the crit, but, even then, I find it more likely that they've happened but you just haven't noticed them (because, honestly, how likely is it that you've never left a survivor from a Shadow Maul). |
While we're on Shadow Maul, do procs in the power also fire at the end? I tend to avoid putting procs into DoTs because they seem to usually fire off at the end, and I'd rather have the effect kick in right away. Wondering if that suspicion is founded in reality (I seem to recall knowing from somewhere, like Incinerate).
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
To the OP: I'm glad you found a powerset that makes you happy. It's not for me, but it's a good thing I don't make the rules. ["What do you mean "nobody is allowed to manufacture, sell, possess, or consume mayonnaise?"]
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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I slotted a Perfect Zinger proc in SM pretty early on my DM/WP build and my experience was that the proc fires in the first set of numbers.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
While we're on Shadow Maul, do procs in the power also fire at the end? I tend to avoid putting procs into DoTs because they seem to usually fire off at the end, and I'd rather have the effect kick in right away. Wondering if that suspicion is founded in reality (I seem to recall knowing from somewhere, like Incinerate). |
Thanks for answering my question on Shadow Maul's crit guys, but now I got another question on that very subject.
When Shadow Maul crits, does the actual damage itself applies at the EXACT time when the orange "Crit" text pops up? If not, when does the damage apply?
Got a DM/WP Brute up to 33 and it's been an enjoyable ride.
I didn't think DM was this good when I started the toon. Honestly, I just started a DM Brute because I thought Siphon Life would fill the gap in WP, which has no self heal powers. At around level 25 or so, I started slotting damage into Siphon Life instead of heals and treated it like it's an offensive power. Quite amazing I must say. I'll probably slot Siphon Life with a combination of Damage/Heals along with some Accuracy and Recharge later down the line though.
I just think DM is the perfect power for Brutes. Fast recharge, pretty low endurance usage and extremely quick animation, with exception to Shadow Maul. I really wish DM had a powerful AoE, simply because Soul Drain gives more +dmg buff the more foes it hits, but the downside is that I don't have a good AoE to make full use of that huge damage buff.
I was going to respec out Shadow Punch but it's really nice to have...and I really don't know if I should respec it out or not. As of right now, my chain consists of Shadow Punch, Smite, Siphon Life and Midnight Grasp; it's definitely a complete chain and it sure does stack the -tohit debuff on quickly.
So, should I respec out of Shadow Punch? I don't think I can get a complete chain without Shadow Punch and its quick recharge =|