Ice Control

Probably somewhat surprisingly, Ice Control is my favorite control set. I love Arctic Air and Ice Slick together, and with Glacier, Frostbite, and Jack Frost thrown into the mix to control during Ice Slick's downtime, I find it very very fun and chaotic. However, I'm having trouble deciding which set to use as my secondary. I was considering Ice/Rad due to the holy trinity powers helping with Ice's lack of initial aggro control, but any of the other powersets I don't know a whole lot about, especially in their synergy with Ice. So, I guess I'm asking how the other secondary sets line up with Ice Control and how they work together with it.

I like my Ice/Storm that I've just started, for thematic reasons as well as a good set of complimentary controls. I haven't gone high enough with a Stomie to comment on Tornado or Lit Storm, though.

Ice can be made into a lean build using only 5 powers (Personally: Block of Ice, Shiver, Ice Slick, Glacier, Jack Frost) and really ramp up the secondary for effect. Now, this experience comes from my Dominator but many controller secondaries will work nicely.

For soloing, I'd recommend kinetics. For team play, anything.

Oh and one note: I'd recommend avoiding the AoE immob because it negates the mitigation of Ice Slick. The benefits of this set seem to be heavily weighted on the knockdown of Ice Slick and the slow powers. Even with just the five powers, I keep mobs on my dominator either locked down or slowed beyond belief. But then again, I have attacks to remove the threats, which you do not.

Take this advice with a grain of salt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus This entire post should receive some kind of award for being both hysterical and fantastic. Well done.

My only level 50 Ice Controller is an Ice/Storm. I have a low level Ice/Rad and an Ice/Kin. Ice is unique in that you can choose to have a melee-oriented build with Arctic Air, or a ranged build with Shiver, or both.

(And by the way, the "complaint" that the AoE Immob, Frostbite, conflicts with Ice Slick is lame . . . just don't use the AoE Immob on Ice Slick! Or cast the AoE Immob, wait 12 seconds, and then use Ice Slick after the -knockback has run out. Still, I agree that Frostbite is not as necessary on an Ice Controller as the AoE Immob on other controller sets.)

I built my Ice/Storm to be melee, with some ability to solo. With both Arctic Air and Snow Storm, I was able to skip Shiver and still send everything to the slow cap. Frostbite lets you use -Knockback to help Tornado be more effective as a damage power. The damage in Storm helps make up for the lack of damage in Ice, making it possible (but not fast) to solo. While the pair has a nice theme synergy, there are some problems with the powersets together. With Arctic Air, you want foes in close. Gale, Hurricane, Tornado and Lightning Storm knock them away. On the other hand, Ice and Storm together are visually fun. I really love this character, and he is great on the ITF with all of his Slows.

Ice/Rad has a special synergy. Rad's Choking Cloud is only effective with another power that helps it be more effective. Fire/Rad and Ice/Rad both work. Choking Cloud + Arctic Air combine to provide a huge amount of AoE control on two high-endurance toggles. Plus, Radiation Infection can combine with Ice Slick or Frostbite to substantially reduce attacks from foes. Glacier and EM pulse are both PB AoE Holds that can stack or alternate for more effective use. You had better rely upon a team to do damage, though.

Ice/Kin: Ice can be a melee set, providing damage mitigation and control to help the melee fighters. Kinetics provides a huge buff to those melee fighters. Positionally, Ice and Kinetics go together very well. Unfortunately, you have very little damage yourself to buff, but on a team, that's not a problem.

Ice/Cold: I don't have one, but a lot of Cold is similar to Storm without the knockback. Theme-wise and team-wise, this is great support character replacing the damage in Storm with Defensive shields for the team and some nice foe debuffs.

Rambly reply warning.

From a design standpoint IMO Ice Control is a major success. I don't think I've ever played a video game with something like it. I personally grade Ice Control a half a step below the leading Control primaries in terms of raw power, but in terms of the experience I think Ice Control is a winner.

I have a 45 Ice/Rad and 50 Ice/Therm (who was my first 50 actually). At the time I had created the Ice/Therm, I also had a 35-ish Earth/Therm, who was actually my first character to break the 20s. At the time I had no vet powers and we were using the old sidekick system, so it was rough. But in most games I end up playing support characters so I stuck with it.

Ice Control is very vulnerable to being "shut down." Enemies with PBAoES and mezzes can lock you out of using Arctic Air. Other Controllers and many of your own powers can lock out Ice Slick. You also have no good tools for taking a direct alpha (exception: Ice Slick around a corner, though most teams won't wait for you to set it up).

Since you bring no real damage if you PUG you are sort of vulnerable to becoming dead weight for the team unless you build for flexibility--and you are a toon that for sure needs a team at least until the 40s. Everyone looks at this a little differently, but my Ice Controllers are all built to take advantage of situations as they present themselves rather than to one specific scenario I seek to maximize. For me that means having Arctic Air for when I can get away with it (read as: the point you realize who is a good tank and who is not) but also Shiver for when I need to high tail it out of melee. It also means being ready to use Ice Slick but knowing the Fire Controller is going to cage everything and suicide leap into the pack so I need to jump in behind her.

One thing I recommend on an Ice Controller is slotting the AoE immob for immob duration so that you can get the longest possible Containment period possible without having to reset the -kb component. On same-level enemies you can easily get an extremely long Containment period that will allow you to crack them while they flop.

In terms of set pairing IMO any set will work well with Ice Control but I caution you away from Sonic Resonance. It's possible someone has made it work but if the experience is anything like my Fire/Sonic troller, the endurance cost is maddening. I did try the combo once a long time ago, got to level 12 or so and rerolled. The combined base toggle cost of Ice and Sonic's toggles clocks in at 2.90 end/second before even considering APP armors, and since the main synergy between Ice and Sonic is the big bubble providing mezz protection to run Arctic Air the results are disappointing.

As for my individual experiences comparing Thermal and Rad, they are about equal in power but play very differently. On the Rad the pet is almost not worth summoning sometimes because it dies constantly and drags aggro back. On the Therm the pet stands half a chance of living due to shields, and actually does pretty respectable damage solo. Thermal is normally a very hectic set, but Ice Control is almost what I'd call "soothing" in a way. The reduction in enemy speeds gives me time to take my eye away from the battle long enough to work the Thermal powers. On both characters I play as aggressively as the battle will allow. Arctic Air is a central part for both of them as they are currently built.

I have a 50 Force Field/Ice Defender. I would probably have made him a Ice/FF troller except that his name (Pinball Blizzard) implied knockback, which I don't favor for an Ice troller. I do believe that despite its low damage though that a Ice/FF troller is incredibly effective. If IO'd for defense it's a walking, undodgeable confusion cloud that's immune to standard mezzes. If you pick up Power Boost any bubbles you hand out are stellar, your confusion cloud lasts longer during the opening seconds of a fight and your personal defense actually increases for those 15 seconds, and if for some ungodly reason you still take damage you can PFF until things calm down. If I ever play another Ice troller it will likely be Force Field just based on my love of strong support characters--although I go into it realizing their low damage means they will have to be financially subsidized by other characters if I plan to IO.

Ive played an ice/ff troller for over 4 years now, its by far my favorite toon b/c its so dang versatile. Ice and ff can work fine getting only 4-5 from both sets, leaving me with plenty of power choices, and more importantly, slots.

For most of his career he's been a very melee oriented toon, Ive set up arctic air with a few procs(2 dmg and the purple proc--use the end/confuse from the respective set for an extra 7.5% recovery and reduc AAs end cost) so its great to keep running all the time. He also picked up aid other, aid self, and the rez. This gave him a HUGE boost to my support role. Add that on top of power boost and you have all the making for all your team may ever need.

Its true I cant do any decent damage on my own, but with then again if I wasnt a fan of teaming I wouldnt play this game at all. But enough on bubbles..just had to say my piece cuz ice/bubblers are all but nonexistent and generally underrated.

I can say everything the other guys have said is totally true. Ice works fantastic at range and melee so pick a secondary that works for your personal style.

Rad/sonic will rough on your blue bar but you wont likely need more than your toggles and ice slick to lock down mobs for the team to wipe them out anyways.

Storm is your best bet for soloing and its great set anyways.

Um...nothin else really new to add..heh. All kindsa good tips from the posts before me

You really can't go wrong with Ice/Rad, but as an evangelist for Ice/TA I am compelled to recommend that pairing if you are looking for something off the beaten path.

An Ice/TA is a walking swiss army knife of controls and debuffs - besides a WHOLE LOT of slows and -Rech, there's a little bit of +Confuse, +Afraid, -Res, -Def, +KD, -Percept, Sleep... as well as extra ST holds and immob, an extra AoE hold, and two very good AoE 'openers' in the Slicks, one of which can do some sick damage if you can figure out a way to ignite it. Beyond opening a whole warehouse of tactical options, this diversity of effects leads to some very nice (and usually cheaper) IO bonus' being available to an Ice/TA.

A lot of people overlook the benefits of all the slowing and -Rech that Ice (and TA) bring to the party - critters attack less often and their big attacks take longer to recharge, meaning Ice/TA mitigates a lot of damage everywhere it goes. Where these slow effects really shine is when Arctic Air comes into play - enemies are too busy being confused or trying to flee the scene to use what few attacks they have available & ready.

Granted, an Ice/TA will be a smoother ride to 50 if you team a lot, but it is certainly capable of finishing its own battles... eventually. But, coupled with a competent scrapper or anyone who can kill stuff if it stays still for a while, an Ice/TA can sometimes perform as if godmode is enabled.

Ice/Storm is GREAT, my favorite toon and the one I always go back to, built for solo, he is a little taste of frozen chaos.

Storm is great for damage, especially with a good recharge build you can throw down a couple storms(snow and lightning) and a tornado or two, it is almost as effective as it is awesome looking. My only problem with the build has been end issues, because Storm seems to suck the blue like crazy.

I have a couple lowbie Ice trollers Ice/Kin and Ice/Cold, both are ok, but not as easy to solo, but Kin will roll along once I get him a little higher.