Fire/TA help


Aluminum_Dave

 

Posted

While this character probably will not be created until after GR hits, I was thinking about creating a fire/trick arrow controller and had a few questions.

First, about the debuffs from flash arrow and smoke:
1. Do the to hit debuffs stack with each other for a approx. 15% to hit debuff when slotted?
2. I have seen in patch notes from a while back that a part of the effect did not require a to hit check, was that the -perception and/or the to hit debuff?

Will hot feet and the other AoEs automatically set off oil slick if it is exposed or is it as unpredictable to set off as I have heard with other sets?

Is it very survivable in the 20s - 30s solo ( missions set at +1, and set for two or three players) without set defense bonuses?

Thank you for any help given


The Toy Collector: arc #4948
When Models Attack... #8099

On Guardian:
Dark Sentry: Lvl 50 FF/dark defender
Cyclone Commando: Lvl 50 Robot/traps MM
Diablo Mk I: Lvl 50 Fire/fire tank
Arc Torch: Lvl 50 Ele/fire brute

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollsfire View Post
While this character probably will not be created until after GR hits, I was thinking about creating a fire/trick arrow controller and had a few questions.

First, about the debuffs from flash arrow and smoke:
1. Do the to hit debuffs stack with each other for a approx. 15% to hit debuff when slotted?
2. I have seen in patch notes from a while back that a part of the effect did not require a to hit check, was that the -perception and/or the to hit debuff?

Will hot feet and the other AoEs automatically set off oil slick if it is exposed or is it as unpredictable to set off as I have heard with other sets?

Is it very survivable in the 20s - 30s solo ( missions set at +1, and set for two or three players) without set defense bonuses?

Thank you for any help given
1. Yes, the ToHit Debuffs stack. This is one of the better aspects of this combo. And I think that the ToHit Debuff in Flash Arrow may not be reduced on AVs, unlike other ToHit Debuffs.

2. Both Flash Arrow and Smoke are Auto-Hit.

3. Any Fire or Energy attack that hits the Oil Slick can light it if it hits. I have found that it hits most of the time on my Ill/TA. And with Hot Feet, you get pulses of damage increasing your chances to hit during the duration of Oil Slick.

There are a lot of people who love this combo. I started one once and abandoned it fairly quickly. Why? Fire is mostly a melee set unless you abandon Hot Feet, and even then the pets are melee. Trick Arrow is entirely a ranged set -- yes, you can use it in melee, but part of the benefit is being able to use it from range. Add to that the problems that exist with two of the best powers -- when Oil Slick Arrow lights, all controller pets run away from the lit area. That's not a problem for pets with ranged attacks, but the Fire Imps have no ranged attacks. That means that you will never be able to combine the damage of OSA with Fire Imps because as soon as the Slick lights, the Imps run for the hills (but they come back later).

Some people really like the combo, so go ahead if you want to make one. One friend of mine used Super Speed to run in and out of melee with his Fire/TA. Another chose to not use Hot Feet and stay at range. You should be aware of the problems, especially the pet vs OSA problem that you won't see until level 32, that may make you regret making the character. If you know about them going in, then you're all set.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Thank you for the info. I did not know about the issues with the fire imps. I may still make one but it is good to have the feedback. I appreciate the response.


The Toy Collector: arc #4948
When Models Attack... #8099

On Guardian:
Dark Sentry: Lvl 50 FF/dark defender
Cyclone Commando: Lvl 50 Robot/traps MM
Diablo Mk I: Lvl 50 Fire/fire tank
Arc Torch: Lvl 50 Ele/fire brute

 

Posted

This happens to be a current leveling character for me. I dig the combo. Now at 38, with EMP Arrow, there's every spawn lockdown ability, along with Cinders and Flashfire.

Quote:
First, about the debuffs from flash arrow and smoke:
1. Do the to hit debuffs stack with each other for a approx. 15% to hit debuff when slotted?
2. I have seen in patch notes from a while back that a part of the effect did not require a to hit check, was that the -perception and/or the to hit debuff?
1. As mentioned previously, yes.
2. Smoke definitely does not require a to-hit check. Flash Arrow takes accuracy enhancements though. From that I'm inferring that something needs a to-hit roll. My guess would be that -percep is auto and the -tohit requires the check. I base that on being able to Flash Arrow a large spawn and position myself very close to them. I don't draw subsequent aggro, which I'd expect if -percep missed somebody.

Quote:
Will hot feet and the other AoEs automatically set off oil slick if it is exposed or is it as unpredictable to set off as I have heard with other sets?
I've definitely seen it not light, but when it does, it's beautiful, regardless of pet AI.

Quote:
Is it very survivable in the 20s - 30s solo ( missions set at +1, and set for two or three players) without set defense bonuses?
I don't have practical experience to answer the question, as this character is part of a pre-set team and has never played solo. I would guess a state of "very survivable" wouldn't be the case in the 20s, but in the 30s, with Imps, OSA and EMP, then "very" becomes an apt term.


Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollsfire View Post
Thank you for the info. I did not know about the issues with the fire imps. I may still make one but it is good to have the feedback. I appreciate the response.
My experience with TA is with my Illusion/TA. I also have a couple of Fire/Rads, a Fire/Kin and a Fire/Cold, so I have some experience with the Fire set, too.

I normally send in Phantom Army, then stand back to shoot my debuff arrows. If I choose to use Oil Slick Arrow while the PA are out, then they go running as soon as the slick lights. This is somewhat ironic, since the PA are invulnerable and supposed to be figments of imagination, but it is what it is. Phantom Army, fortunately, have ranged attacks as well as melee attacks; once they overcome the fear, they turn around and begin to attack from range. Once the Oil Slick is extinguished, then they can go back into melee. (It used to be that once an oil slick had been lit, the area became off limits even after the oil slick was gone.) My other pet, Phantasm, normally attacks from range, so the Slick isn't much of a problem with him. (Except that he has knockback, so he will sometimes knock foes out of the area.)

If the Imps would continue attacking while the Oil Slick was burning, then Fire/TA would put out some pretty awesome damage. Sadly, that doesn't work.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Is the flaming oil slick/pet problem a bug or working as intended?


 

Posted

Its been around forever, so its either WAI or its too complicated for them to fix.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila_NA View Post
Its been around forever, so its either WAI or its too complicated for them to fix.
It was partially fixed. Previously, after a slick had been lit on fire, the pets would never come back to that spot even long after the fire was out. For a Fire/TA, that meant that your Imps would not attack any foe standing in the are where an oil slick had burned.

It was later changed. Now the pets run away from the oil slick, but will come back after the burn has ended. Either it's a bug the Dev's can't fix, or it is working as intended. My guess is that it is NOW working as intended.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Local_Man View Post
It was partially fixed. Previously, after a slick had been lit on fire, the pets would never come back to that spot even long after the fire was out. For a Fire/TA, that meant that your Imps would not attack any foe standing in the are where an oil slick had burned.

It was later changed. Now the pets run away from the oil slick, but will come back after the burn has ended. Either it's a bug the Dev's can't fix, or it is working as intended. My guess is that it is NOW working as intended.
Well that makes me less than happy to hear. The potential build I was doing in MIDS made pretty good use of these two(er, 3 counting the "ignition" power) powers. I'll still make the toon but I am going to have to re-think my strategy a little bit. Still looks like it will be a fun toon though.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Local_Man View Post
It was partially fixed. Previously, after a slick had been lit on fire, the pets would never come back to that spot even long after the fire was out.
It was actually far worse than that. The imps, once they fled from the lit slick, could not attack anyone inside or outside the slick, even after the slick was gone. They were effectively dead imps not-walking. Worse than that, even after the slick was gone, subsequent summonings of new imps on the same map usually left them still brain dead and unable to act. You had to leave the map and go to a new mission for them to work again.

Through several attempts to fix it they finally got it to where it is now. It is irritating and mainly affects imps, but at least they can attack other stuff and can come back into the area once its totally gone.

However, I seem to recall that the current state is still bugged, but the behavior of pets in this circumstance is tied into something else they can't change. So, not working as intended, but best they can do. The pets that have ranged attacks (all other pets) are barely affected at all, and I guess some pets even perform better. Isn't PA's damage more with their ranged attacks?

Lewis


Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan