76 would be correct. 10 primaries (with Kinetic Melee) * 8 secondaries = 80. Remove the 4 that are precluded by Shield Defense, and you're left with 76.
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That is assuming that Kinetic melee goes with Shields |
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
76 would be correct. 10 primaries (with Kinetic Melee) * 8 secondaries = 80. Remove the 4 that are precluded by Shield Defense, and you're left with 76.
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I have yet to see the Devs say it will go with Shields and looking at the video it is using two hands a stuff and looks like it would be a problem if pair with Shields.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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Ya know, I almost typed out that exact disclaimer in my post... I think it is pretty safe to assume though, as the only sets that are precluded from using Shield Defense are 'weapon' sets that use the shield arm. I don't see any possible for Kinetic Melee to fall into that category.
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Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
That is assuming that Kinetic melee goes with Shields
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Other sets use two-handed animations just fine with Shields. Fire Melee, Super Strength, Energy, Electrical & Dark Melee all have two-handed animations. I think as long as there is not an 'object' in the shield hand, it'll work perfectly fine with Shields.
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Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
I have yet to see the Devs say it will go with Shields and looking at the video it is using two hands a stuff and looks like it would be a problem if pair with Shields.
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All of that attacks look fine till The attack at 22s. If you don't want to look the toon is spinning his hands in front of him. With a shield on his arm he would be hitting himself with the shield over and over again. Now they could use a different animations for this power but till they say other wise I'm going to think you can not pair it with shields.
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Other sets use two-handed animations just fine with Shields. Fire Melee, Super Strength, Energy, Electrical & Dark Melee all have two-handed animations. I think as long as there is not an 'object' in the shield hand, it'll work perfectly fine with Shields.
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"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
The shield is actually attached to the forearm, a little less than halfway up (towards the elbow), so the shield wouldn't actually be flailing around wildly when doing the twirly-wrist animations. It would only flop whenever the forearm did, if ever.
+1 vote for km/shield
~Upon further review:
Maybe alternate animations for /shield... some of those would totally hit him in the face, or come damn close to it.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
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Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
That is assuming that Kinetic melee goes with Shields
I have yet to see the Devs say it will go with Shields and looking at the video it is using two hands a stuff and looks like it would be a problem if pair with Shields. |
...ok.
Since I am an optimist, and believe in the business acumen of the Devs, let's just assume that it works with Shields. SD is very popular and a very fun set, I can't think of any reason to disallow the shiny new melee set from the crowd favorite.
Making that (hopefully safe) assumption, how many of those 76 flavors of scrappers do you see around? Are there any that are disproportionately common? Any that are exceptionally rare?
If so, why so?
Here's a common one: I have not seen a fighting pool-free scrapper in ages. Does that mean the fighting pool is too good for scrappers? Do the less taken pools (like presence) need a boost for scrappers?
How about some of the odder combos out there, like claws/fire? I don't remember ever seeing a claw/fire scrapper, and yet that combo should be RIDICULOUS for damage.
Why aren't they out there more?
Just curious, is all.
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The most commons are WP and Shield, while for primary, i pretty much see them all equaly. But i'm sure i've seen any combo possible (excluding APP/pools). The reason why some are less frequent? Because they aren't as good in a min/max way, or less intuitive to find a concept for. |
Originally Posted by mauk2
...ok.
Since I am an optimist, and believe in the business acumen of the Devs, let's just assume that it works with Shields. SD is very popular and a very fun set, I can't think of any reason to disallow the shiny new melee set from the crowd favorite. Making that (hopefully safe) assumption, how many of those 76 flavors of scrappers do you see around? Are there any that are disproportionately common? Any that are exceptionally rare? If so, why so? Here's a common one: I have not seen a fighting pool-free scrapper in ages. Does that mean the fighting pool is too good for scrappers? Do the less taken pools (like presence) need a boost for scrappers? How about some of the odder combos out there, like claws/fire? I don't remember ever seeing a claw/fire scrapper, and yet that combo should be RIDICULOUS for damage. Why aren't they out there more? Just curious, is all. |
You don't see much claws/fire because shield gives a lot more damage then /fire and fire or elec gives more damage then claws (i think... there's no clear way to decide best aoe damage)
Fighting is a lot commun for scrapper, because it boost one of there two fonctions. Damage, we already have enough and the pools pretty much don't help for that. (assault beeing the exception but costing lots of endurance for little.) On the other hand, protection can be easily gained and scrappers are far from the cap for msot part. And the closer you get to the cap, the bigger the effect. (s/l from 50% top 70% for exemple makes you last 66% longer for a 20% bonus, from 40% to 45% def, you last 100% longer, for a 5% bonus)
I don't see it being a problem. The pools cover very different roles (travel, protection, support, mitgation, healing, less downtime). Some things are a lot less in demand, but are still taken. If we wanted to make them more popular, we'd need to boost them too much, wich would cause problems with the ATs it's actually used a lot or would be just ridiculous.
For exemple, the traval pools are less taken now that there is ninja run. One way to make them popular again, would be to make the travel powers even faster! But it would be ridiculous if SS' max speed got boosted X3-4 just to make a bigger difference with ninja run.
For scrappers, there's no bad combo, just some that are less seen. =)
"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX
Hmm, Claws/Fire... Sounds interesting. I'm going to have a play around on Mids and see what I can come up with.
Contact me in-game: @CheeseSlicer
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The more I watch that video the more I'm convinced that KM is going to suck for DPS.
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Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
All of that attacks look fine till The attack at 22s. If you don't want to look the toon is spinning his hands in front of him. With a shield on his arm he would be hitting himself with the shield over and over again. Now they could use a different animations for this power but till they say other wise I'm going to think you can not pair it with shields.
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Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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It might have a lower DPS if it's as pseudo-ranged as it appears.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
The more I watch that video the more I'm convinced that KM is going to suck for DPS.
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The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
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Originally Posted by SpikyShane
Hmm, Claws/Fire... Sounds interesting. I'm going to have a play around on Mids and see what I can come up with.
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It's....crazy.
Permastacked focus on top of fiery embrace means spin and blazing aura are just doing insane things, and followup adds ranged knockdown while healing flames is popping back up like, all the time.
The boards have been so enamored of shields for so long, I suspect the REAL damage machines have been completely missed.
Which is another reason why I started looking over 'The Magnificent 76' to see what has been neglected.
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Oh good grief, jump the gun much? |
Originally Posted by Santorican
The more I watch that video the more I'm convinced that KM is going to suck for DPS.
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It's not even in open beta and you're forming your opinions? How about we get to play with it a bit first?
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So far as DPS goes, I think Claws/Fire would resemble Dual Blades/Electric, in that both are using a follow up power to boost a damage aura. I'd put Claws at about 10 DPS under Dual Blades at the top end, though. So off hand, let's say Claws/Fire is capable of something in the 250s with a dedicated DPS build. That's very good, and you also don't need fuel to do it the way you do with Shield Defense. But it's also not going to set any DPS records, and you're going to have a lot of trouble getting the survivability out of it if you're going for max DPS.|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Permastacked focus on top of fiery embrace means spin and blazing aura are just doing insane things, and followup adds ranged knockdown while healing flames is popping back up like, all the time.
The boards have been so enamored of shields for so long, I suspect the REAL damage machines have been completely missed. |
I haven't paid close attention to AoE, so can't comment there. Seems like it would be very good. I doubt it would be on top, but that's just a guess.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Fully disagree with this. |
Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
~~ if it's as pseudo-ranged as it appears.
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There is one obvious ranged blast (second to last one), the rest don't look like they have more than the typical 7' range anyway (excluding the PBAoE and cone, those may be different).
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
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According to Castle
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Originally Posted by Elegost
Fully disagree with this.
There is one obvious ranged blast (second to last one), the rest don't look like they have more than the typical 7' range anyway (excluding the PBAoE and cone, those may be different). |
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| Most of it's attacks are standard melee range. |
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
I was poking about in mids, and got to wondering:
How many "flavors" of scrappers are there?
I mean, how many primary/secondary combo's are there if we include the new Kinetic melee(KM)?
I thinkered around a bit, and assuming I can do math (not a good assumption) I came up with 76 different combos.
Here's a list:
Adding in power pools and epic pools raises that number to...ridiculous levels.
So here's my question: How many flavors of scrappers, out of the 76 basic combos and the 'work well' pools, are widely played?
Why do you think that is?
Is there any imbalance here?