Re-look at all power set IO recipe availability
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2010-05-20 06:01 in Suggestions and Ideas
Personally, I think the Targetted AOE and PBAOE could use a few more recipe sets rather then access to other sets.
But if something like this goes forward, some things would have to make sense like some powers in energy blast should be ranged and KB, but shouldn't have access to hold or immob since they do not have that as part of that particular power.
All in all, I wouldn't mind the increased variety.
Powers within powersets only take IO sets that match the effects in the powers. In Martial Arts, you can place Melee, PBAoE, KB, stuns, slows and immobile sets, depending on the power. In other sets, you can typically only place one kind of extraneous set. For Energy Blast, for example, all of the powers take KB sets and the respective damage sets, but nothing else.
Super Strength can take a mixture of Hold, KB, and Stun enhancements as well, and is an older set. Ice Melee can take Slows, Holds, Sleeps, and KB. Fire Melee is probably the most restrictive of the sets, since it can only take the damage sets. However, depending on the AT, the sets can take Taunt sets as well.
However, even if the sets were re-examined, I don't think that the devs are just going to allow sets to be slotted for things that the powers won't do. Basically, you'd need to add or replace effects on existing powers before they would be able to accept any different IO sets.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Quote:
Fully agree with you Aett, that is why I suggested that perhaps the powers themselves may need to be re-looked at as well and expanded to have minor debuff or what not effects so they could rightfully take advantage of the IOs|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Powers within powersets only take IO sets that match the effects in the powers. In Martial Arts, you can place Melee, PBAoE, KB, stuns, slows and immobile sets, depending on the power. In other sets, you can typically only place one kind of extraneous set. For Energy Blast, for example, all of the powers take KB sets and the respective damage sets, but nothing else.
Super Strength can take a mixture of Hold, KB, and Stun enhancements as well, and is an older set. Ice Melee can take Slows, Holds, Sleeps, and KB. Fire Melee is probably the most restrictive of the sets, since it can only take the damage sets. However, depending on the AT, the sets can take Taunt sets as well. However, even if the sets were re-examined, I don't think that the devs are just going to allow sets to be slotted for things that the powers won't do. Basically, you'd need to add or replace effects on existing powers before they would be able to accept any different IO sets. |
Sue
Quote:
This would only work if the powersets that you think need looking at were somehow buffed, while the other sets got nothing. If the powersets are in balance now, then a buff would throw them off.|
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
Fully agree with you Aett, that is why I suggested that perhaps the powers themselves may need to be re-looked at as well and expanded to have minor debuff or what not effects so they could rightfully take advantage of the IOs
Sue |
Which powersets do you think need these buffs?
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Mmm...
I agree with the over all concern are the original power sets, say pre-I3, are balanced in effectiveness with the power sets as new as I17?
The first question to ponder is: What is balance?
That to me is really a very hard or nearly impossible question to answer, for performance effectiveness can be viewed from so many perspectives.
Frankly, I tend to believe that power versatility in the secondary effect department has not been a main consideration when releasing new power sets due to work loads on the developer side; in other words "I need to get this new wow-zhabang power out" and thus the new powers were built taking advantage of all the new effects, IOs structure, status effect and buff/debuff architecture with out consideration that senior citizen powers did not take advantage or as much of the new effects architecture. I concur that current power sets are really very nice, with many side effects built in to them, very flexible enhancement slotting wise, really well done.
The pre-I17 especially pre-I3 powers when built were not designed with all these great bells and whistles because when they were created these new game effect abilities simply did not exist, at least in an architecture as we have today. Thus Martial Arts stuck to the classic configuration of melee and Knock-back, because at the time Knock-back was your main side effect for melee and the other side effects were not as well structured as they are today, similar statement could easily apply to an energy blaster.
So I felt it would be nice to re-look at these classic power sets from the pre-I3 era specially, and kinda bring them up to date as needed, some powers were actually so well made they were ahead of their time, but others were not. So perphaps thunder kick, for instance, could be more than just melee and knock back, perhaps it could be upgraded so the main power instead of hitting you and knocking you, may have a tiny stun, or defense debuff, or what not; really it would be a power to power evaluation to what new abilities would make sense and then how effective. In the case of Thunder Kick, I would dare say, the victim had been kicked so hard they are stunned or numbed in such a way they loose defense (thus defense debuff) for a short period of time, if so then stun or defense debuff IOs could be utilized with Thunder Kick. Note that these durations does not need to be nearly as long as a power truly intended to stun by its use for instance.
This also may be an opportunity to re-tune some of the defensive sets, such as tanker fire aura, at the time they were designed the use of status effects, specifically immobilizations were not as rampant as they are today, tying the immobilization break free for fire tankers to burn was ok in an environment where status effects were not used as much; but now status effects are much more like spam, and the use of burn as a means to be protected against immobilizations is really not appropriate. This is a sample case where a power was very good at one time, but as the game architecture evolved, that power became increasibly less effective.
Hugs
Stormy
Okay, I think you really need to take a look at all of the sets, and see that very few of them are one-trick ponies like you point out.
Most of them, even the old ones, can be slotted for multiple things. Even Martial Arts, as I pointed out in my first response, can be slotted for multiple things, not just melee and KB. There are attacks in the set that can be slotted for Stun, Immob, and Slow, in addition to KB and Melee.
So take a look through the powersets, and come up with a list of sets that you think can't be slotted well enough.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Quote:
Aett, you are right on your observation, but I did not meant the power set as a whole being a one trick pony, but each individual power within the set being one trick ponies. The concept is for each power that there may be more than just 2 possible IO slotting recipe type choices, would like to see powers be set up to have 3 or 4 alternate IO type choices, perhaps the wishful thinking may extend beyond those pre I3 as well.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Okay, I think you really need to take a look at all of the sets, and see that very few of them are one-trick ponies like you point out.
Most of them, even the old ones, can be slotted for multiple things. Even Martial Arts, as I pointed out in my first response, can be slotted for multiple things, not just melee and KB. There are attacks in the set that can be slotted for Stun, Immob, and Slow, in addition to KB and Melee. So take a look through the powersets, and come up with a list of sets that you think can't be slotted well enough. |
hugs
Stormy
I'm not sure such a review is really needed, I am not sure if the powers themselves are unbalanced at all with regards to abilities and recipe compatibility.
On the other hand, in the process of trying to achieve certain capabilities such as recharge, hit points, endurance recovery, defense, resistance and what not; it would be helpful if the various powers had more IO recipe choices, normally the great majority of the powers can only accept two IO types (melee, ranged, confuse, etc), it would be great if the powers could be set to have about 4 IO recpe types; I understand that perhaps the powers themselves may have to be modified to make sense for the new IO recipe choices, but on the other hand it would make the power themselves more versatile and thus make the game more fun.
Smokefire
Quote:
Except, again, this means adding effects to the powers so that they all have two secondary effects. And if you do that, you either increase player power, or you have to take something from another area of the power (decrease damage, increase endurance cost, decrease the other effects, etc) to maintain the current balance level.|
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
Aett, you are right on your observation, but I did not meant the power set as a whole being a one trick pony, but each individual power within the set being one trick ponies. The concept is for each power that there may be more than just 2 possible IO slotting recipe type choices, would like to see powers be set up to have 3 or 4 alternate IO type choices, perhaps the wishful thinking may extend beyond those pre I3 as well.
hugs Stormy |
I'd much rather have more sets made for the current areas to increase flexibility than have to jury-rig a system together to add effects to powers that don't make sense.
Edit -> And, again, I don't think that the newer sets are any better at doing this than the older sets. Most of the Broadsword and Katana powers, for instance, can take Melee, Defense Debuff, and Accurate Defense Debuff. So that is three sets per power.
Meanwhile, Scrapper Fire Melee (a newer set for them) can only take Melee sets. Electrical Melee can take Melee, Sleeps, and EndMods. Some of the Dual Blade attacks (arguably the 'newest' set for Scrappers) can only take Melee sets as well, though some can take a few secondary sets as well.
And even after ALL of that, you're not going to see much variety in the builds still, since slotting for a number of secondary effects and their sets means that you don't slot as much for damage and Acc, so you end up with a worse power. Slotting would likely stay the same, with only a single IO difference depending on taste, since you'd want to get a decent amount of Acc, Damage, EndRed, and RecRed on the powers.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
[QUOTE=Aett_Thorn;2884525]
I'd much rather have more sets made for the current areas to increase flexibility than have to jury-rig a system together to add effects to powers that don't make sense.
QUOTE]
I think Aett truly has the best suggestion here, I was seeking more ways to get effects for the various ALTs, and frankly Aett is right, why not have more recipies with more different properties?
Thank you Aett, you hit the ball ouf of da park!
Stormy
Hi:
With the degradation of Blessing of the Zephir (not commenting if good or not) I started to redo my various ALT architectures; as I used MIDS' to redesign my alts I noticed that the classic power sets, say Martial Arts, their choices of what kind of IOs you can place in them are very classical and lacks severely in variety. Normally you are limited in MA to melee and knock back in most cases; while the newer combat power sets tend to allow you a much greater suite of choices such as melee, knockback, defense debuff, enhanced defense debuff, etc.
It would be nice, if some of these old sets could be "modernized" to accept more sets of IO choices. It may result with these old sets getting a bump in ability such as besides "just" having knockback having minor defense or resistance debuff as well, so that the powers could have access to more choices.
I am sure some of the "old" guard ranged powers such as energy for blasters could be re-looked at as well, for instance.
All I am asking is to relook at the various ATs power sets, and see if they could be made a bit more versatile or flexible with regards to IO choices for enhancing.
It would be great if many of the Target PBAOE or PBAOE powers would have a greater variety of choice on what IO enhancements types they could use, at the moment they strike me as a bit narrow.
Hugs
Stormy