I17 bugs -- screwed up graphics effects and audio
By
Back_Blast,
Posted on: 2010-05-06 14:12 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
Have you upgraded your video and sound drivers to latest? That might help.
It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
Quote:
may not. x800 would be a Shader Model 2 card. The line-up was continued from support back in March 2009. The last "stable" driver main-line release was the 9-3 driver.|
Originally Posted by Back_Blast
Have you upgraded your video and sound drivers to latest? That might help.
|
ATi/AMD still rolls the legacy driver up as part of a quarterly package, but outside of making sure the quarterly legacy package accounts for Windows API changes, little else is done to the driver.
***
Sound I suspect may be a separate issue. An x800 would have been before ATi started putting an Azelia audio class sound chip on their GPU's, so my bet is you'd have to be using either an add in card or onboard sound. We'd need to know more about your actual hardware to solve a sound issue.
It's onboard sound. I'll try to dig up the specs on the mobo when I get back home.
I'll check the GFX card's drivers when I get back as well, but for some reason I want to say they're in the 9-ish range.
It would help if you could post the results of these two programs:
- CoH Helper - it will show us basic computer settings and your CoH configuration.
- HijackThis - it will show us what's running on your computer concurrently with CoH. Click on "Do a system Scan and save a logfile." It will automatically open up Notepad and put the info there. Make sure Wordwrap is off in Notepad (Format > Wordwrap unchecked) before you cut and paste here.
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I'm starting to get the feeling that I17 has CPU utilization issues related to the new UM code. Even for folks who may not be running UM features. This would be behind the issues with ATI hotkey, Vent, Skype, sound loops, various crashes and the like.
I'm particularly struck by one poster who said that his drop-out problem with either Vent or Skype went away after he raised the priority of the process, and The Television's response to this pronouncement.
Just throwing this out there for consideration. Not all graphics processing happens in the GPU. CPU, RAM and the video bus all play their roles as well.
Update: The conversation referenced above occurred in this thread.
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Or... it seems that it is more GPU related especially with users with Intel graphics who try to play the game when the Intel GPU is below minimum specs, never meant for 3D gaming, includes horrendous bugs, not maintained with current drivers by Intel, further hampered by 3rd party laptop manufactures who force users to use their own version of those poorly maintain drivers and don't bother to update their own proprietary versions themselves. This is the situation of a good chunk of those who've come to the boards looking for help. The rest mostly needed to update their drivers. And then there's a small percentage with perniciously difficult-to-track-down problems.|
Originally Posted by Starjammer
I'm starting to get the feeling that I17 has CPU utilization issues related to the new UM code. Even for folks who may not be running UM features. This would be behind the issues with ATI hotkey, Vent, Skype, sound loops, various crashes and the like.
I'm particularly struck by one poster who said that his drop-out problem with either Vent or Skype went away after he raised the priority of the process, and The Television's response to this pronouncement. Just throwing this out there for consideration. Not all graphics processing happens in the GPU. CPU, RAM and the video bus all play their roles as well. Update: The conversation referenced above occurred in this thread. |
We've already been told by The Television that the CoH graphics engine got some wide-ranging overhauling to accommodate Ultra Mode, and that overhaul included tweaks to help low-end machines. That kind of work will produce bugs on their end. But it doesn't help when Intel and the 3rd party manufacturers that use Intel don't keep up the drivers on their end.
If CoH introduced major bugs to the graphics engine, we'd all be seeing it. But the numbers that have come to the boards for help is way lower than what we saw after CoV was introduced. The overwhelming majority of users aren't having problems, else they'd be here swamping the boards. That would indicate the majority of problems are not at the CoH end, but at the end of systems with outdated or unusual configurations.
There are memory leaks for sure, but they existed before UM was introduced.
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I'm having so much trouble playing now. The game is crashing constantly. Going into bases is pretty much impossible, and I'm stuck using an Intel card unless I buy a new laptop.
I made sure my drivers were up to date, I lowered the resolution, the graphics are all set to minimum. I didn't have nearly as many problems on test.
CoH Ran fine before. I don't know why it's so problematic now...
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because the engine changed. |
Originally Posted by NightErrant
I'm having so much trouble playing now. The game is crashing constantly. Going into bases is pretty much impossible, and I'm stuck using an Intel card unless I buy a new laptop.
I made sure my drivers were up to date, I lowered the resolution, the graphics are all set to minimum. I didn't have nearly as many problems on test. CoH Ran fine before. I don't know why it's so problematic now... |
See this post: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...73&postcount=6
Hi all...well, without going into too much detail yet on my end, we have 2 totally different PC's here at the house...both running Windows 7. Both are having the same lagging issues ONLY since I17 was released. We started service back up 2 days before the release date and everything was working fine. As soon as the servers came back up from the i17 maintenance we both saw immediate changes in the lag.
Graphically, there is no lag at all, it appears all incoming networking related...ie: pressing number keys to activate powers during my lag, is visible and audible on the other computer while it isn't experiencing the lag issue...and vice-versa. The pedestrians and vehicles on the street are skipping as well, every few seconds.
Aside from lag I noticed only 1 other error after the upgrade to i17. When logging in, and loading between zones you hear a loud sound loop play one time at max volume...usually the sound of a vehicle driving down the road. I tried all the basic TS...and got nothing...then I starting thinking outside the box...and I have only found one...I mean ONE solution that visibly stops the problem. When I run in Windowed mode, I have the same issues of course...however whether I am in Windowed mode or Fullscreen mode...whenever switch (alt-tab or other) out of the game and leave it running (hover over the little aero preview screen...or windowed mode click on the taskbar and leave the game running on the whole screen but actually NOT BE FOCUSSED or TARGETED on the game window)...the game runs PERFECTLY SMOOTH. The only two things really happening are the lack of Window's focus on the game....really doesn't make sense how that's related...but the other thing that happens in both instances is that the game's SOUND is temporarily disabled so you can work on the system in peaceful silence. Apparently only when the sound isn't running whatsoever will the game run smoothly.
I just got back just now from testing to make sure. YEP! It's definately the sound card drivers...at least on both of our seperate pc's. I just went to device manager and disabled the sound card on both. Ran the game for 15 minutes, and not ONE skip, pop or lag. I will post further if I find updated drivers that fix it...until then try that fix yourselves to test it, then spread the word!!!
Good luck everyone!
I can confirm this as well. Running in windowed mode, better performance when focus is shifted out and the sound off. Return the focus and the sound comes back and the performance drops. It's dramatic as well, halves my FPS. Unfortunately, it's not something I can resolve with drivers. I've the most recent already. And to be honest, this doesn't seem like a driver issue to me. This is a bug, plain and simple.
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Just to clarify, I'm not accusing the programming team of introducing new bugs, per se. I'm perfectly sure that many problems are due to new coding vs. old drivers. |
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Or... it seems that it is more GPU related especially with users with Intel graphics who try to play the game when the Intel GPU is below minimum specs, never meant for 3D gaming, includes horrendous bugs, not maintained with current drivers by Intel, further hampered by 3rd party laptop manufactures who force users to use their own version of those poorly maintain drivers and don't bother to update their own proprietary versions themselves. This is the situation of a good chunk of those who've come to the boards looking for help. The rest mostly needed to update their drivers. And then there's a small percentage with perniciously difficult-to-track-down problems.
We've already been told by The Television that the CoH graphics engine got some wide-ranging overhauling to accommodate Ultra Mode, and that overhaul included tweaks to help low-end machines. That kind of work will produce bugs on their end. But it doesn't help when Intel and the 3rd party manufacturers that use Intel don't keep up the drivers on their end. If CoH introduced major bugs to the graphics engine, we'd all be seeing it. But the numbers that have come to the boards for help is way lower than what we saw after CoV was introduced. The overwhelming majority of users aren't having problems, else they'd be here swamping the boards. That would indicate the majority of problems are not at the CoH end, but at the end of systems with outdated or unusual configurations. There are memory leaks for sure, but they existed before UM was introduced. |
I'm just pointing out that a lot of I17 complaints are things that seem to be related to CPU-utilization and that a lot of folks who aren't complaining of outright bugs are complaining of reduced performance even without enabling UM or using bugged drivers. It's not a huge stretch of the imagination to look at whether or not the new graphics engine is using more CPU ticks than the previous model.
And even if it does, that's not an indictment of the programming team. It uses what it uses and if that's as good as can be got, then it needs what it needs. But I don't think it's a bad thing to suggest looking in that direction after doing the driver update boogie.
I've got a lot of experience with IT from both the Tech Support and back-end departments. You look for end-user problems first because 99% of the time, that's what it is. That's given. But I've also seen the times when the tap-dance is done to buy time for the engineers to fix the real problem on the provider side.
I don't think it's a good thing to ignore a possibility that has a lot of weight behind it because we don't like it when the game looks the worse for it. If the new coding needs better optimization, say so. If the game's minimum system requirements have grown, say so. If you're still trying to work out which it is, say so.
If some people can get better results by reducing background processes and services or tweaking CPU prioritization, then let's get that happening sooner rather than later. Looks better all around.
Some will nerdrage because some always do. I'm not, because I'm a grown-up who lives in a world where sometimes things don't work perfectly. I'm hoping that further optimization will fix the problems. If not, well, I've been looking for upgrade reasons anyway. I'd just like the heads-up on which it is going to be.
And yeah, I realize that I'm stringing together a conclusion from a lot of second-hand anecdotes. But I've been well-paid and highly commended for that particular skill-set in the past and I'm pretty good at it. I'm not afraid to be proven wrong. It's often for the better if I am. Let's wait and see.
Yeah, I confirmed...I downgraded to previous drivers from vista, and it didn't fix the problem...but completely disabling the sound card then running the game full screen works...but it blows playing the game with no sound.
It is truely a bug on CoX's end...I only hate how hard it is to get noticed when you narrow down the problem and figure it out...you have to scream your head off in 30 different forum posts until you get noticed, and I really don't want to be "THAT" person. I only hope a dev comes along, reads what I wrote, and says "TADA...that lowly peon figured out the root of the problem"...or "TADA...we already knew that but weren't broadcasting it because...honestly, why would be be broadcasting our WEAKNESSES! HA HA HA"
Regardless, it's depressing to be paying for a service that doesn't work...trust me, I know. I work in the same kind of industry where people freak out when the service stops working for even 20 minutes.
So, I have an older rig. Never had a problem with COH. Until I17, that is.
My rig's about 5 years old (but then, the game is 6 years old...). For graphics, I'm running an ATI Sapphire Radeon X800 SE card. I had the input lag problem (also introduced with I17...) and disabled the hotkey puller. No more input lag. Great.
Trouble is, now a lot of the effects simply don't work properly. For example, Ring of Fire used to actually produce a ring of fire around the target. Now it looks like four blobs around the target, and just on the floor.
Laser sights on the Tactical Pistol w/Laser now flicker FAR more than they used to and are barely visible.
I suspect that aura abilities are going to be problematic as well although I haven't been logged in long with any of my heroes who are levels 30+.
Anyone have any idea what the heck this could be about?
As a separate issue, sound has SERIOUSLY degraded in quality. A lot of sounds loop randomly now, and the sound quality is far muddier than it used to be.
I've never had an issue for COH/COV actually degrade performance. Very disappointing.