Ill/Emp --build critique/help


Arkyaeon

 

Posted

Right so I was a bit confused at first, but I tried my best lol...Granted this is my first build for it...

-Tried to max recharge w/o making powers useless

-Got pretty close to Perma-PA, would like it all the way but I can live a with a little down time

-I'm worried about end - NOT ENOUGH POWER SLOTS I don't know if I should be or not...

-Epic pool; Its questionable, originally I went with psi, what good is a mez'd emp...but I like power boost. If you think I should switch back, please say why...


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Issue 24 PPM Calculator // The Great Makeover: The Vindicators

 

Posted

There a few things that I would suggest.

Drop Absorb Pain and pick up Spectral Wounds. Given how quickly your Fortitude recharges (and you can power boost it), you should be able to keep most of the squishies on their feet with little healing. There are very few situations that will require more spot healing than you can provide with Heal Other. Also, you can pick up an extra 1.5% recharge by slotting Decimation in Spectral Wounds.

When you need to Fly it's generally outside of combat so slotting for endurance generally doesn't contribute much. Drop one of those slots and slot it with two generic Fly IO's. That extra slot can go into Blind, which is in need of some improvement.

With 5 slots in Blind, I find this slotting works well. Ghost Widow: Acc/Recharge/Hold, GotB: End/Recharge/Hold, GotB: Acc/End/Recharge/Hold, GotB: Acc/Recharge, and GotB: Acc/Hold. That'll give you about 10% acc/recharge/hold beyond SO levels and a small endurance reduction.

Other than that, I wouldn't make too many changes. Also I wouldn't be too concerned about your endurance. You'll have Recovery Aura up nearly 2/3 of the time, and you wont need your toggles most of the time. When Recovery Aura is down you can fill the gap with Conserve Power. You may have to slow down occasionally, but I doubt it will disrupt you beyond regular gaps between mobs.

I'm a big fan of Powerboost and I can see it working well with this. It'll help out the few controls you have in Illusion and up your buffs. A powerboosted Fortitude is a thing of beauty especially if you layer more defense from Group Invisibility and Maneuvers (which I would take over Superior Invisibility). Then you've got your heals. You could crank Heal Other out 4 times within the duration of Powerboost for around 3100 hp over 15 secs. As long as you target mezzers with Deceive before hand and let PA take the aggro getting hit with a mez shouldn't happen often so I would stay with the EPP you've chosen.


 

Posted

I agree with Ketch that skipping Spectral Wounds is a huge mistake -- unless you want to gank your ability to do damage. Find some way to fit it in, as it is a fast damage power that really does a lot of damage if you learn to maximize the benefit of the Spectral Damage. Also, do you really need both SI and GI?

Take a look at my Illusion/Radiation guide for a lot of suggestions on slotting your Illusion powers, plus some strategy tips on how to play those illusion powers. The slotting of Phantom Army in my guide is better than yours -- you are giving up too much damage. I would suggest 4 Expediant Reinforcement (leaving out Dam/End and the Resistance Proc), and then add either the two triples from Call to Arms or Dam/Rech and Chance for Build Up from Soulbound Allegence. Also, Phantasm cam be improved with the same 4 Expediant Reinforcement and an Acc/Dam Hami-O, and use one less slot.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

YAY! ... Thanks for the information

so few things I was thinking...

Fly was sloted like so because I do in fact fight with fly on, yes I do understand why NOT to use in combat, but I do it anyways -most- of the time. However, for changing it up I'll make the adjustments...

GI and SI -- I hate SI (end) and GI helps me and team! I plan on using GI, and SI was taken as just a filler for 7.5 rech (remember I like rech)

SI for maneuvers? -- haha thats like here's your sign... Changed

By force of habit I slot CallTArms because it has more 'useful' set bonuses -- yeah I kind of bit my tongue when I put those in there. I've basically, if not the same, made the changes suggested to the pets, and I -think- I am happy with the results.

------------
Hmm... I don't know, absorb pain always seems handy to me... Though thats probably just because of the numbers it puts out. Its full of bad things -- horrible range, can't heal yourself because of it, etc. It does give me rech and heal bonus atm which is nice. But that is probably the 1 power I would consider first... That said:

I still don't know about SpecW. I've heard it was nice, I've used it at low levels and it was meh (couldn't really tell). The numbers don't do it justice though, I'd be more interesed in taking say Power Blast for idealy better damage -- granted SpecW is psi, but it heals >_> (target isn't going to live anyways)



Issue 24 PPM Calculator // The Great Makeover: The Vindicators

 

Posted

The first thing that immediately jumps out at me is the lack of Stamina. While achieving Stamina will cost you some power picks, it will also open up some slots, because neither Hurdle nor Health will need any.

I know you said you liked to Fly, but I'd think over carefully how much you really need it. I would consider dropping both Hover and Fly and relying on Hurdle + Ninja Run. This will buy you back two slots. As a Controller, getting out of range isn't as critical as with some other squishies. If you run into a specific scenario where it's an issue, use a Raptor Pack.

I personally would consider swapping out of the Primal epic, exchanging it for Ice, Fire, or Earth. Going with Ice lets you slot a Luck of the Gambler +Recharge in the armor and gets you Hibernate, which allows you to hide in safety while pets take care of enemies or waiting for Phantom Army to recharge. Fire is all about the damage, great for a Illusionist because it kills things before they can heal back illusionary damage. Earth also has a defense based armor for LotG slotting, and has some controls that make up for some of what Illusion lacks. I think Power Boost is great on some Controllers, but Illusion doesn't have the big AoE controls that some sets do, and so it doesn't benefit as much IMO.

I also notice you don't have any real attacks. It's a choice, but a tough one if you ever want to solo or contribute to a small team. In this vein, try to spec into the single target APP blast, multi target APP blast, and Spectral Wounds, in that order of importance if not necessarily order of power choices. I'd also change my slotting on Blind from slotting for hold to slotting for damage, and use Deceive as my main single target mezz.

Speaking of Deceive, if you can find one more slot to sneak in here, you can gain +5% to ranged defense by slotting the sixth purple confuse IO. Normally, I wouldn't bother using a whole slot just for a set bonus, but that particular one gives a very large, noticeable boost, and since you already have 5 slots dedicated to the power, it's an easy grab.

Also, I think (but am not sure) you can pull a lot of slots out of some of the auras and Adrenaline Boost. These powers need Recharge, but a Recovery rate of +1224%, as you currently have in AB, is overkill.

I hope that's helpful.


 

Posted

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Limu: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Empathy
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blind -- UbrkCons-Hold(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(3), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(3), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(9), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(9), FtnHyp-Plct%(45)
Level 1: Healing Aura -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Dct'dW-Heal(13), Dct'dW-Rchg(15), Mrcl-Rcvry+(15)
Level 2: Heal Other -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(17), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Dct'dW-Heal(23)
Level 4: Deceive -- CoPers-Conf(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(5), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(5), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(7), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(7)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Superior Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43), HO:Cyto(43), EndRdx-I(43)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 12: Recall Friend -- Range-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 16: Clear Mind -- Range-I(A)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- C'Arms-Acc/Rchg(A), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), C'Arms-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(19), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg(21), S'bndAl-Dmg/Rchg(21), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(23)
Level 20: Fortitude -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(34), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(37), HO:Membr(37), HO:Membr(40), GftotA-Run+(40)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 24: Spectral Wounds -- Apoc-Dmg(A), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(48), Apoc-Dam%(50)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- Abys-Acc/Rchg(A), Abys-EndRdx/Fear(27), Abys-Acc/EndRdx(27), Abys-Fear/Rng(29), Abys-Acc/Fear/Rchg(29)
Level 28: Recovery Aura -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(A), Efficacy-EndMod(31), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(31), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(31), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(34), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(48)
Level 30: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Phantasm -- C'Arms-Acc/Dmg(A), C'Arms-Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), C'Arms-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Regeneration Aura -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(36), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Dct'dW-Heal(36), Dct'dW-Rchg(37)
Level 38: Adrenalin Boost -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(39), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Dct'dW-Heal(39), Dct'dW-Rchg(40), EndMod-I(45)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Power Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(46), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Resurrect -- RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 4: Ninja Run

No Stamina is fine, especially with a high recharge build that can alternate RA and CP. Power boost is awesome just for the benefits it provides on the EMP side and it's ideal for a support oriented ill/emp. Don't worry about stacking defense bonuses, this build doesn't need it. Also, I don't like fly for an emp, when you need to be mobile to provide the support your team needs, fly doesn't cut it.


 

Posted

Generally, I agree with advice that you give OT, but this is a case where we'll disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
The first thing that immediately jumps out at me is the lack of Stamina. While achieving Stamina will cost you some power picks, it will also open up some slots, because neither Hurdle nor Health will need any.
Stamina may be helpful on a leveling build here, but I don't think it's necessary in the final build given the recharge of Recovery Aura and Conserve Power. Alternating between the two will give little time in which the OP isn't covered by one or the other.

Quote:
I know you said you liked to Fly, but I'd think over carefully how much you really need it. I would consider dropping both Hover and Fly and relying on Hurdle + Ninja Run. This will buy you back two slots. As a Controller, getting out of range isn't as critical as with some other squishies. If you run into a specific scenario where it's an issue, use a Raptor Pack.
With travel suppression, I find Fly a little sluggish in combat and a drain on endurance. However, Ninja Run has the same endurance drain as an unslotted Fly. The OP might want to a speed-on-demand bind that would alternate between Fly and Hover while moving or staying still. I've tried them myself, but found they changed states on me too often.

Quote:
I personally would consider swapping out of the Primal epic, exchanging it for Ice, Fire, or Earth. Going with Ice lets you slot a Luck of the Gambler +Recharge in the armor and gets you Hibernate, which allows you to hide in safety while pets take care of enemies or waiting for Phantom Army to recharge. Fire is all about the damage, great for a Illusionist because it kills things before they can heal back illusionary damage. Earth also has a defense based armor for LotG slotting, and has some controls that make up for some of what Illusion lacks. I think Power Boost is great on some Controllers, but Illusion doesn't have the big AoE controls that some sets do, and so it doesn't benefit as much IMO.
Powerboost and Empathy do a few particular things very well. Powerboosted Fortitude is quite handy for most of the game. On the STF there are two reasons I'd like to have PB and Empathy. Five applications of PB'ed Clear Mind will keep the tank free of Ghost Widow's monster hold. (Also, good against Reichsman's ridiculous stun.) The second is the pure amount of healing required to stand up against Recluse during the initial strike.

Quote:
I also notice you don't have any real attacks. It's a choice, but a tough one if you ever want to solo or contribute to a small team. In this vein, try to spec into the single target APP blast, multi target APP blast, and Spectral Wounds, in that order of importance if not necessarily order of power choices. I'd also change my slotting on Blind from slotting for hold to slotting for damage, and use Deceive as my main single target mezz.
I agree. Spectral Wounds is a key power of Illusion because it fills the gap between controlling, healing, and buffing. While damage is a strength of Illusion, it need not be played to always. I see the OP's build as a less aggressive, team oriented approach. If they wished to play Empath and Blast then it can be done just as well with a Defender. The appeal here is the ability to shed aggro while playing an Empath.

Quote:
Speaking of Deceive, if you can find one more slot to sneak in here, you can gain +5% to ranged defense by slotting the sixth purple confuse IO. Normally, I wouldn't bother using a whole slot just for a set bonus, but that particular one gives a very large, noticeable boost, and since you already have 5 slots dedicated to the power, it's an easy grab.
With so little personal defense, I don't see 5% making a difference here. I generally avoid the last slot of Coercive Persuasion unless I am specifically building for defense. In this case, it only adds 4 seconds to an already very long mez and brings ranged defense up to a grand total of 6.3%.

Quote:
Also, I think (but am not sure) you can pull a lot of slots out of some of the auras and Adrenaline Boost. These powers need Recharge, but a Recovery rate of +1224%, as you currently have in AB, is overkill.
As it's slotted, it's just enough recovery for a blaster to immediately begin recovering from a nuke or for someone using EMP Pulse or EMP Arrow to do so without a loss of recovery.

One thing thing Tex's suggestions made me consider was a change in the APP picks. You could possibly change Temp. Invulnerability to Energy Torrent. This would all you to slot the chance for recharge proc and knock enemies away from squishy teammates.


 

Posted

Hmm. Obviously I need to learn a little more about Empathy. It's the one secondary I really have no direct experience with, so I may have overstepped my bounds.

I didn't think about Power Boost + Fortitude. That is a good combination. I'm not sure I'd go with Power Boost just for that, though.

Personally, I absolutely hate Conserve Power. I can see how it would be useful to an Empath though, and how it could get you around Stamina.

As for slotting the sixth slot in Deceive with the purple, +5% ranged defense at the cost of just one power slot is still impressive to me, stacked or not. I think that as a whole we Controllers have been seduced into thinking of ourselves like Tankers or Scrappers or even Blasters, who have to deal with a barrage of incoming damage. For those ATs it's appropriate to think of Defense as an average and not a single, discrete roll. An Illusion Controller however is much more likely to be dealing with one or two pot-shots instead of a stready stream of attacks. Small increases in defense mean much more to a character expecting to deal with these "one off" attacks, especially since those one or two shots can can result in death. I can see the argument for skipping the slot, but I personally grab it on every character who can take it, since the bonus is better than what even some actual powers give you, and actually better than what a maxed out -ToHit toggle placed on an AV would do.

With Adrenaline Boost, I didn't think about it getting around nuke crashes. Very interesting. I may have to roll an Empath one day.


 

Posted

Deceive doesn't draw aggro, the CP proc does if it fires. I wouldn't trade aggro free control for 5% ranged defense, unless I already have tons of ranged defense to stack on top.

Anyway between GI, SF and PA you don't really need to build for defense. Deceive also works well for those few that break off and chase you.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemu_ View Post
Deceive doesn't draw aggro, the CP proc does if it fires. I wouldn't trade aggro free control for 5% ranged defense, unless I already have tons of ranged defense to stack on top.
If you're referring to the Coercive Persuasion: Contagious Confusion then you are mistaken. The proc doesn't drag aggro from either the target of your Deceive or the surrounding mobs struck by the contagious confusion.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemu_ View Post
Deceive doesn't draw aggro, the CP proc does if it fires. I wouldn't trade aggro free control for 5% ranged defense, unless I already have tons of ranged defense to stack on top.

Anyway between GI, SF and PA you don't really need to build for defense. Deceive also works well for those few that break off and chase you.
Ketch is correct. I have that Contagious Confusion proc from the purple Coercive Persuasion set on all 3 of my Illusion Controllers at level 50. That proc does not draw aggro.

You might be thinking of the damage proc from Malaise -- that one can sometimes draw aggro, so it is better to skip it in Deceive or Mind's Confuse.

The main thing to build for with an Illusion Controller is Recharge . . . you want Phantom Army up as much as possible. Defense isn't as important when the attention of the foes is on the Phantom Army.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Local_Man View Post
Ketch is correct. I have that Contagious Confusion proc from the purple Coercive Persuasion set on all 3 of my Illusion Controllers at level 50. That proc does not draw aggro.

You might be thinking of the damage proc from Malaise -- that one can sometimes draw aggro, so it is better to skip it in Deceive or Mind's Confuse.

The main thing to build for with an Illusion Controller is Recharge . . . you want Phantom Army up as much as possible. Defense isn't as important when the attention of the foes is on the Phantom Army.

As usual I agree with you. I want to continue my (somewhat off topic) diatribe about Defense, though.

The point of grabbing the +5% Defense in the purple confuse set is that it the opportunity cost is low. At the cost of a slot, you buy more Ranged defense than many actual powers will give you. A lot of people will tell you it's not worth getting any Defense unless you can softcap it. IMO this is due to differing views on what Defense means for a character who has the ability to avoid enemy fire. I'll explain my reasoning below.

When talking about the Defense of a Tanker or Scrapper it's appropriate to consider attack rolls as an average. On average, 45% defense is twice as good as 40%, because twice as many attacks miss. But this is an abstraction. Attack rolls are not really an "average," they are discrete events. An attack either hits or it misses; you are never struck by "95% of an attack." The reason its safe to examine attacks as averages for melee ATs is that these characters will be under a constant barrage, which results (in theory) in the pattern normalizing.

But gaps in the pattern sometimes appear. Imagine a power capable of doing 1 million points of damage that only happens once, say at the beginning of a big boss fight. A character with 45% defense gets hit less often on average but this has little bearing on whether s/he is hit in fact after the attack roll has resolved. The character with 45% defense who is hit anyway is in the exact same position as the character with 40% defense who was also hit. The character with 45% defense certainly did not take "half as much damage" as most models of Defense will predict.

Now it's unusual for a Tanker to run into situations where a single attack roll decides whether he lives or dies. But on a team an AT that is frequently in that situation is the Controller. That's because the AT has a combination of low HP (i.e. vulnerable to the nuke attack above), the ability to shut down attack rolls before they happen, and a bevy of meat shields to keep enemies distracted. On the few occasions when the Controller has to roll the die, s/he is not doing it like a Tanker or Scrapper but as a one-off or two-off character who will hopefully soon shut down future attacks before they happen. The character doesn't live or die "on average."

Investing in +Defense is subject to an opportunity cost. My rule is you shouldn't do it unless you can grab a decent amount at a low price. IMO, one power slot for +5 Defense is fantastic. Then you factor in that some other teammates will likely have auras or -ToHit and it really starts to add up for a team heavy, aggro-avoiding character.


 

Posted

That's good to know about the CP proc. I stand corrected, thanks for the info.