My quest for Darkness, what now ? The scraptroller dream...

Hey there,

I just came up to the conclusion i'd better make a post to have some fresh ideas since i'm stuck on Mid's for a while now and can't decide on what to roll next. As my sign shows and as some posters might have noticed through my other posts, i have a little problem: i'm addicted to darkness. And as a consequence, to scrapping as a whole.

Yeah, right, i just can't force myself to play anything but /dark characters. Sounds a bit laughable but, that's it, once upon a time i used to like defenders/controllers/blasters but as soon as i think about rolling i keep thinking i'll miss the mezz protection, damage, and feeling of a scrapper. So i move to the scrapper primary/secondary choices (for the 150th time) then i list them one by one and always realize i end up with a something/dark.

Why that ? I just like about everything from dark, the playstyle, the graphics, the versatility, and the fact /dark scrappers are fairly rare compared to the uber /shields and easy to play /willpowers, /sr or the old classic /regen. I swear on my server 90% of the scrappers i meet have these secondaries, so i like to stay "different".

Anyway, now that i'm stuck again with /dark, i was wondering which primary would fit for a new playstyle. I already have spines/dark as my main character and farmer, claws/dark as the old main farmer (now that AE is nerfed she doesn't get much love), katana/dark as the AV soloer and tf runner (but i just can't force myself to finish the build with the super expensive IOs even if she already does pretty good), a lvl 42 soon to be 50 and s/l/e/n softcapped DB/dark.

Dark melee is out of the way, as much as i love /dark, i HATE dark/... The animations and the single target aspect make it the primary i'll never do again (got a dark/dark tank to 50, she's now waiting for free respecs before i can finally delete her). That leaves elec, MA, fire and BS. I don't see much point to the last one, while i really liked the *smash* feeling on my old BS/shield, i think it just looks stupid to have a sword in right hand and nothing in left one. Meh.

Beyond the usual performance and build stuff, i was toying with the idea of the "scraptroller", especially with the presence pool AE fear stacked with my beloved Cloak of Fear. Sounds like it would be a fun and very uncommon playstyle, and at the same time be an innovative way to get more survivability without going for the softcap.

Invoke panic doesn't seem like such a bad power, GotA is a decent set, accuracy is easily solved with IOs (i don't go for +4 anyway, my typical setting is +2 x8), a recharge focused build will make it available often enough. I only worry about the end cost, so i'd rather be looking at an endurance efficient primary and build. However it seems a bit counterproductive to the AoE goodness i enjoy if i use it as a mitigation tool on its own.

Considering that, i have some questions:

-do the procs cause their own "chance to attack" for the feared mobs ? I was thinking of a damage proc in Invoke panic, and my usual damage procs in damage aura and AoE powers. Let's say the damage aura ticks and the proc goes off, will it give one chance or two chances (damage tick + proc) for the mob to retaliate ? If slotted in invoke panic, will the proc be taken into account before or right after the fear effect application ?

-my playstyle is fairly aggressive and as a good scrapper i tend to just jump in the middle of the pack, let the damage aura hit as many mobs as it can, then unload all my AoE and chains. I would just throw invoke panic before the AoE chain. Would it then give any real benefit, or be nullified by all the AoE going on ? The goal would be to buy me enough time to let the heal recharge and keep up (and since the heal does damage too, it doesn't help i guess). I have a mindset close to /regen with /dark anyway, i consider that a race between my heal recharge and the incoming dps so, i'd see Invoke Panic as a way to grab the precious seconds i need.

-a bit like the first question but, if going with MA or fire (or even elec) i'd be tempted to add fireball to the mix. I never tried it so far because of redraw but since i'll now try some sets with no redraw, it seems to fit. Would the dot component of the fire attacks count as their own damage source and force a chance to retaliate on the fear ?


Back to the primaries, i don't know much about them. Elec being a villain set for a long time i simply never played it or bothered to know anything about it, only the common knowledge on forums, so this is one of the few sets in this game where i'm totally lacking any experience with it. While i sure would enjoy Lightning rod, i fear i'll never bring it to fast enough recharge to overcome the fact none of the other powers seem very exciting. It has bonus points for a true scraptroller feeling though, with Lightning clap. CoF + invoke panic for soft control, then OG + lightning clap for emergency hard control. That's a mag 4 pbaoe fear and a mag 4 pbae stun with the knockback on top of it. But that's a lot of power picks and it would be a mess on the battle field (and on the endurance bar too), however, it sounds fun enough to be something to consider. Lightning clap seems like such a lifesaver to buy time between the heals when i'm left alone with a herd of mobs on me after a team wipe. Seems like i should take most of the primary powers too, which isn't a good thing as it will make it harder to get pools and epics.

MA is straight forward enough that i see how it will work, just wondering if DT + fireball and damage aura will be enough to not feel anemic. It's often said to be the best scraptroller primary because of stuns, but i'll use fears instead and won't waste power picks or time to animate single target stuns. So it leaves DT as the gem of the set (this attack is beautiful, both for animation and effect i think) and a counterproductive single target KB. I think a fast recharging DT would provide a lot of mitigation through knockdown, too.

I've always been a fire hater but now with power customization i finally consider rolling one. FSC seems beautiful and having the highest damage all around gives it a spot in my scrapper heart. I'm just wondering if Fire breath is of any kind of value for a scrapper, it seems most skip it. I don't like the animation and the narrow cone but, i'm used to cones (so jumping in and out of melee to fire it wouldn't be an issue, though a bit annoying), and the damage/recharge are quite amazing on Mid's. I thought about frankenslotting it to max range enhancement as well, worthless, or could be viable ? Without fire breath that leaves only a single AoE, like MA. It seems like the less "scraptrollery" of the 3, but having good ST and AoE dps on top of the pbaoe fear controlling ? That's a win/win of course.

And here i am, stuck for days now pondering about that. So if you have any input or ideas on that, especially looking at the usual min/maxers hanging around there. It's a mix between a fun build, concept, yet i want it to be a decent powerhouse when it comes to ST and AoE damage. Won't be an AV soloer of course

Thanks in advance.

Well for what its worth, since I have not spent as much time playing as you have, my main Tanker is a Willpower/Fire and my main Scrapper is a Martial Arts. I personally love both these melee sets, but for different reasons.

Here is my take on Martial Arts; Its my favorite melee set because of the beautiful animations. I tried MA/DA once thinking the stacking stun possibilities would be cool, but dropped it because using cloak of darkness would pretty much negate the visceral fun I have watching the character fight. About the only thing I could do was add an aura and/or hasten to see him fighting. Its still quite a good combo, but I feel Martial Arts needs to be seen to be enjoyed.

I rolled and played a Dark/Fire tank for awhile and thats what made me settle on Fire Melee, although I switched to willpower because I needed the extra endurance recovery. Fire Melee is very good at AoE damage which I am sure you know, but everytime I play around in Mids with scrappers, I get jealous of their Fireball base damage compared to a tankers and wish I had rolled a Scrapper. But eh, he is still very fun.
I can imagine the blazing, firespitting scrapper who is a puff of smoke would be hellishly cool in battle. So, my personal thought is of the two, Fire/Dark would give you quite a unique experience. Heck, now I am getting interested in one.

As far as Fear, you probably know as much about it as I do on how the Ticks will reduce the mitigation you get from cloak of fear, but with how much endurance it would take to run both Fire Melee and Dark Armor, you may consider just taking Death Shroud along with your standard defensive toggles and skip both OG and CoF. Just my 2 cents.

Let us know what you decide. Both sound very fun.

P.S. I am with you as far as the Electric side of things, since it was originally villain-side. But looking at the Electric Melee and Defense, my personal tastes favor the Defense and not the Electric Melee. There are powers in the set I just Dont like at all, like Thunderstrike.

Well I gotta say, I perfectly understand you. My only scrapper at level 50 is a DM/DA. She was my second toon, my first one was a Mind/Emp troller, which I deeply love.

I loved the DM/DA playstyle! Haven't played her since I returned (so she's still slotted with only heal for Siphon Life) but hey, I had no Tough and didn't worry about damage types since /dark resisted almost all of them well and I had dark regen, SL and OG to ignore minions.

I had to pseudotank twice (again, no tough) with my DM/DA with TANKERS on the team, all the way through 2 extensive arcs. One arc was full of psionic damage (carnies) and the Fire/Fire tanker couldn't handle it, so he was minion-munching while I took on bosses and mezzes annoying lts / other bossses with Touch of Fear.

In the other arc, the (Neuron? It's been a long time) robot with rad blasts were tearing through the Ice/whatever Tanker's defense, so I went 'tanking' again. It was energy damage, our weakness, but I had OG to ignore minions, ToF to mez others and SL+DR to heal me.

I never took another scrap to 50 again. Claws/SR was too boring at 30ish (because of /SR not Claws) so I kinda abandoned her for now, took a Fire/Invul to 35 and I felt the same, great damage and a good taunt aura but I felt like something was missing.

I just returned and I'm trying a DB/Elec because I like Elec Armor, especially since I saw it was buffed (my 36 SM/Elec broot has aid self lol) and never tried DB.

But yeah, just to say I understand you and I think you won't find another secondary as diverse as Dark Armor.

So, as primaries, I have no firm opinion on MA (great animations, effects a bit to varied but the stuns can stack) since I played the set till level 20 or so.

Fire is all damage, no mitigation, even Fire Blast has some way to mitigate damage (Rain of Fire), but Fire Melee, nothing. Range helps on BoF but I didn't like the power, its arc is only 30 degress, while Shadow Maul/SoM is 45 which I find way more acceptable. But even with FSC alone, Fire has good AoE and is great for hard targets, and the good ST attack chains don't require much recharge (well maybe the TOP attack chain requires it, but from what I've read all FM attack chains, recharge intensive or not, are close enough if you worry about DPS).

Elec Melee.... I personally think it sucks. Cool powers, cool animations, great AoE, but you'll take forever to kill a hard target. I tested my ELM/stone brute AND my DM/DA scrapper on invincible Cimerora missions. The DM/DA was faster even killing one at a time. The ELM was so slow on bosses, I could drain them before killing them, and I wasn't using Granite Armor because i wanted to test ELM's effectiveness with no penalties - and my fury was high all the time. I'd only play ELM again on a Stalker (because of AS, plus I <3 Stalkers) or on an Shield scrapper if I had 2 billion and wanted a farm toon because of the double tele-nukes, elec/shield seems like the perfect 'lazy farmer', when I left the game I was tired with Fire/Kin farming because of all the clickyness, with a high-recharge Elec/Shield build it seems I could just bind shift+click to L.Rod, ctrl+click to Shield Charge and that's it lol.

Cloak of darkness used to be an issue for me as well but now thanks to power customization it can be "invisible" so, i don't mind anymore and it it was really the only bad thing about /dark for me.

I'm not an expert with the range stuff but, i thought capping range on the fire breath would make it wider too. I think i read somewhere range enhancements on cone boths improve the range and make them wider, so it would turn it into a 45°, 30 range cone. While nowhere as good or comfortable as a Throw spines i think it wouldn't be too hard to hit 5 targets or something like that. Now i have no idea if it's true or not.

How is elec melee ST dps compared to, Spines ?

Do yourself a favor

Roll a ma/da, take cobra strike, wait till lvl 35 to unlock OG and enjoy.

Nothings better than walkin into +2 X8 spawn, having all minions start stumbling around, slappin a boss with cobra strike and watching him reel.
Go to work on any LT's or troublesome minions with MA's awesome attack strings.

Ma/da is an awesome combo. Mines IO'd and sitting at 50. It was a test to get him there but well worth the journey. If "scraptrolling" is something your lookin for theres really no better combo for the job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dispari Yeah, I like Blasters too.

Nope, range enhancers are great on cones but it just improves the range, not the arc, therefore improving the final width at the end, think of a 1-meter cone and a 2-meters one with the same original angle, the 2-meter one will be wider at the end only because it is longer, but the original arc won't change. Well you should give it a try since leveling is so easy nowadays and you get BoF at level 8. I remember I deleted a dark/traps corr, when I got T. Tentacles I thought 'awesome power' (40 range, 40 degree cone) and when I got Nightfall I thought 'this sucks' (60 range, 20 degree cone). The DoT nature of Dark blast was the main reason I deleted the toon but my nerdrage over the 20 degree cone helped too.

As for ST DPS I'll leave it to the experts, but I really hated my ELM Brute as I said, I took him to 50 because it was a DXP weekend from 1-38 (Granite) and it was a breeze to 50 because everyone wanted him on ITFs to tank.

This isn't availble to scrappers, but conceptually, I've always liked how stone melee went with dark aura. Oppressive gloom stacking with the AoE stuns, plus knockdowns and a hold for further control. Both sets are very endurance heavy, though.

Again, not available for scaps...but my main brute is a Energy Melee/Darm armor brute, my 'SMASHtroller.' Every single attack can stun, two always wil, one will most of the time, and little damage is sacrificed, as your big-hitters are stuns.

So yeah...eight stuns in the primary, add in a toggle fear and a toggle stun, with a mag 50 stun rez. It's fun to smash dizzy, cowering things. I have no trouble keeping 3 bosses stunned indefinitely.

It does make me wonder if the rebalanced energy melee will make it to scraps.

There's a third choice, something like "no impulsion" or something, i don't remember. Anyway, it works well and i choose it for ALL my dark characters It's only for CoD so it won't be in the whole powerset menu. The option is there for Obsidian shield too but i never noticed an effect.

Ok from someone who tested the presence pool with tof and cof it was many issues ago but not much has changed in the presence pool it is lack luster and you will wonder if it did anything more times than not

If you want something different as a scraptroller and you will hardly see go MA/Dark

As mentioned Cobra strike + OG, then add in Dragon Tail with aoe knock down add Air Superiority as another knock down in your attack chain.


Then go with the Dark Epic hold Petrifying Gaze it is better than anything in the presence pool and if you want you can add Torrent for knock down or Dark Blast for damage and if you so desire you can also think about adding TT with the immobilize

Those are better option than the presence pool imo

Celidya, I know you say you've played a DA/DM tank but I would still strongly recommend DM/DA. DM/DA is far stronger as a scrapper than it is as a tanker. After years of playing DM/DA I was eager to play DA/DM as a tanker. Needless to say I was very disappointed with the combo tanker side.

I agree with Hejtmane in that Presence is lack luster at best. TF + CoF is considerably superior to anything Presence pool might offer.


Combined with Dark Armor, DM/DA becomes a rather impressive AoE machine. I never understood why folks considered DM such a single target set until I played it with something other than Dark Armor. Simply put, Soul Drain + Deathshroud adds to to an impressive amount of damage.

For aggressive, spawn diving scrappers, DM/DA is a fantastic choice.

I made a MA/dark but i just can't get into it for now at lvl 6. Damn, i forgot how i hated the low levels. I think it even feels worse with fast attacks since i spend most of my time waiting for them to recharge on top of having no combat flow at all.

For DM/DA, i can hardly imagine it being decent AoE at least on my criterias. But then i'm used to Spines. I tend to prefer fast recharging attacks that i can spam very often rather than long ones and playing my DA/DM tank i felt i was always waiting for the interesting attacks. Though i could probably get away with the anims using a fire blast/SL/fire blast/MG chain (i HATE the punching) and it would even be an interesting concept for a melee character, i know i'll just miss a spamable pbaoe attack. And i don't really like the Shadow Maul animation too anyway.

By the looks of it, i'll make everything and just stick with the one i'll enjoy the most in the low levels,

I understand Des, DM/DA is not lacking on AoE damage, I just think that there is at least one contender that does great ST DMG like DM and has better AoE, which is Fire Melee. I can't really comment on MA because I haven't played it far. But I like DM far more than FM because FM is all damage and nothing else. Haven't taken my new DB far yet (since I returned I'm only playeing lowbies to get a feeling of 'freshness' from the game, I'm afraid I'll get burned out quickly if I get my permadom or some other IO'ed toon and go run STFs, RSfs and ITFs, but it seems like DB could be a contender for good ST and good AoE too. I didn't mention Spines on my other post because Spines is lacking in ST and I wanted to compare the sets that also do good ST (FM and probaby MA, well Claws too but Claws/Dark is the OP's main scrapper).

As for Tankers... Yeah never liked them. I kinda liked the damage output on my Ice/Fire because of dmg aura + Aoes (FSC, Combustion) + decent ST damage, plus being a defensive set on Tankers, the survivability is great in your 30s, but even so I didn't take him to 50 (but I saw Ice/Fires with very good damage in the game, especially with Fireblast and Fireball added).

got an electric/dark to level 9...
hopin that it be the combo to finally have a dark at 50

Is the question now the optimum build for a /da scrapper? As in which primary offers the best balance between ST and AoE damage?

If so id say katana.

Id think elec is in the same boat as spines for ST damage. Ive never played spines to any serious lvl, soo my judgement might be skeued(?). And dm IS too single target oriented.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dispari Yeah, I like Blasters too.