New at Controling and loving it!


Harkness

 

Posted

Hello everyone! I have been playing this game off and on for a while. (before issue 1 villain side, on an old account I lost. : ( ) I just signed up on the forums and I need some help. I'm kinda intrested in farming though not realy so this build is more for survivability/teaming. Please help me out a bit, it's only listing SO's Since The IO system scares me a bit. X.X'

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Sparkia: Level 50 Science Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char

  • (A) Accuracy
  • (3) Accuracy
  • (3) Endurance Reduction
  • (5) Endurance Reduction
  • (9) Hold Duration
  • (46) Hold Duration
Level 1: Transfusion
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (11) Accuracy
  • (11) Healing
  • (13) Healing
  • (13) Healing
  • (15) Recharge Reduction
Level 2: Fire Cages
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (5) Accuracy
  • (7) Endurance Reduction
  • (7) Endurance Reduction
  • (9) Immobilisation Duration
  • (43) Immobilisation Duration
Level 4: Siphon Power
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (15) Accuracy
  • (46) Recharge Reduction
Level 6: Hurdle
  • (A) Jumping
Level 8: Hot Feet
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
  • (17) Endurance Reduction
  • (17) Damage Increase
  • (19) Damage Increase
  • (19) Damage Increase
  • (21) Endurance Reduction
Level 10: Siphon Speed
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (21) Accuracy
  • (23) Recharge Reduction
Level 12: Flashfire
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (23) Accuracy
  • (25) Endurance Reduction
  • (25) Recharge Reduction
  • (27) Disorient Duration
  • (27) Disorient Duration
Level 14: Health
  • (A) Healing
  • (29) Healing
  • (29) Healing
Level 16: Increase Density
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
Level 18: Kick
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
Level 20: Speed Boost
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
Level 22: Tough
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
  • (31) Resist Damage
  • (31) Resist Damage
  • (31) Resist Damage
Level 24: Stamina
  • (A) Endurance Modification
  • (33) Endurance Modification
  • (33) Endurance Modification
Level 26: Weave
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
  • (33) Defense Buff
  • (34) Defense Buff
  • (42) Defense Buff
Level 28: Cinders
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (34) Accuracy
  • (34) Endurance Reduction
  • (36) Recharge Reduction
  • (36) Hold Duration
  • (36) Hold Duration
Level 30: Stealth
  • (A) Defense Buff
  • (43) Defense Buff
  • (43) Defense Buff
Level 32: Fire Imps
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (37) Accuracy
  • (37) Damage Increase
  • (37) Damage Increase
  • (39) Damage Increase
Level 35: Transference
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (39) Accuracy
  • (39) Endurance Modification
  • (40) Endurance Modification
  • (40) Endurance Modification
  • (40) Recharge Reduction
Level 38: Fulcrum Shift
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (50) Recharge Reduction
  • (50) Recharge Reduction
Level 41: Indomitable Will
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
  • (42) Defense Buff
  • (42) Defense Buff
  • (46) Defense Buff
Level 44: Mind Over Body
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
  • (45) Resist Damage
  • (45) Resist Damage
  • (45) Resist Damage
Level 47: Hover
  • (A) Flight Speed
  • (48) Defense Buff
  • (48) Defense Buff
  • (48) Defense Buff
Level 49: Fly
  • (A) Flight Speed
  • (50) Flight Speed
------------
Level 1: Brawl
  • (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint
  • (A) Empty
Level 2: Rest
  • (A) Empty
Level 1: Containment

If you have any suggestions or just wana say hi please feel free to!


 

Posted

Don't think you need 3 slots in health. Why so much focus on defense? That's a lot of powers/slots/toggles for a relatively minor ammount of defense. Meanwhile, you totally skip Smoke which has a 5% to hit debuff AND provides stealth to your team. It's really great when groups are close together and your team mates run the risk of pulling double agro. I'd say you're much more likely to make a difference by smoking a patrol here or there than by stacking defense.

At the very least, drop Stealth and pick up smoke.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime_Nighthawk View Post
Don't think you need 3 slots in health. Why so much focus on defense? That's a lot of powers/slots/toggles for a relatively minor ammount of defense. Meanwhile, you totally skip Smoke which has a 5% to hit debuff AND provides stealth to your team. It's really great when groups are close together and your team mates run the risk of pulling double agro. I'd say you're much more likely to make a difference by smoking a patrol here or there than by stacking defense.

At the very least, drop Stealth and pick up smoke.
I didn't think of the -perseption would be that much help. I will try out smoke tomorrow and report back on that. Anything else you would recommend? Since I'm trying to not be uber squishy, that's why I guess I built more defensively.


 

Posted

the -perception is actually really good. It has advantages over most stealth skills. First off, it's a low end skill that hits a huge area and is spamable. So it doesn't drain your end like some of the toggle stealths. And it isn't a pain for tanks like team buffs such as group invis, yet it provides a stealth effect for the whole team. I was on my blaster the other day, and the Illusion controller had hit the tank with group invis. Tank went to a spawn just as a patrol was coming around the corner. He didn't see them, they didn't see him. But they walked right into all the squishies.


And think about it. Smoke offers -5% to hit which is as good as the defense buffs from hover and stealth combined with only 2 extra slots as opposed to 4 used for defense enhancements... but offers it to the whole team.

Similarly, why not go with leadership? That provides offensive and defensive buffs to your whole team (imps included).


 

Posted

Fire/Kinetics is a somewhat unique build, not ideal for learning about controllers in general. It is very strong at dealing AoE damage, which is why it is viewed as being an ideal farming character. However, Kinetics offers very little protection, so a Fire/Kin tends to die more often than other controllers. The best use of a Fire/Kin is to kill lots of lower level foes quickly. Also, it does not really mature until late in the build -- after getting Fire Imps at 32, Transference at 35 and Fulcrum Shift at 38, and then getting them slotted up. Because of the damage focus, its main "defense" is a good "offense" -- killing stuff fast.

As a result, it is generally better to build and slot for damage and recharge rather than defense on a Fire/Kin. Your build doesn't really follow that principle. If you intend to play your Fire/Kin only or mostly on larger teams, you would build more for control and recharge, a little less for damage. If you expect to solo or be on smaller teams, you want damage and recharge -- by the time your controls wear off, the foes should mostly be dead.

There are a lot of suggested changes I would have for your build, most of them based on the above. I suggest you take a look at the Guides section for Controllers. My Illusion/Radiation Guide (linked in my signature) has a section in the beginning on some basics for controllers. Then look for the Fire/Kin guides. Those should give you a good idea of where to start.

In general, (a) Recharge is better than Defense for controllers. Why? If the foes are held/stunned/flopping/slowed/confused/sleeping, they can't shoot at you. Plus, you get double damage from your non-pet attacks from Containment if the foe is Held, Stunned, Slept or Immobilized. (b) Small amounts of Defense provided minimal benefits, so getting small amounts of Defense usually is not worth the effort. On the other hand, large amounts of Defense are wonderful, but a controller can't get large amounts of defense without an extensive (and usually expensive) IO build. For most controllers, Recharge provides more benefit than Defense.

I play a LOT of controllers -- the only primaries I have yet to take to 50 are Mind and Grav, and I'm working on them. I have never taken the Fighting Pool on a Controller. I take Leadership on very few. I focus on getting my control and buff/debuff powers, and usually take Hasten to get those control powers to recharge as quickly as possible.

You seem to have a lot of focus on EndRdx. Once you get Transferance at 35, you will not need most of that EndRdx. After level 35, you should be able to drop the EndRdx in most powers other than Hot Feet.

Standard base slotting for control powers is 2/2/2 -- two accuracy, 2 recharge, 2 whatever your mez is (Hold, Stun, etc.); look at that for Flashfire and Cinders. For a team build, you can do the same for Char, but for solo, I like getting some damage in it. Standard slotting for AoE Immob powers is 2 Acc, 1-2 EndRdx. No Immob needed since it recharges much faster than its duration. If you are mostly playing solo, consider taking Ring of Fire slotted as a damage power (1 Acc, 3 Dam) for those lower levels.

Hot Feet needs capped EndRdx, as much Damage as you can fit in and a little accuracy, and a little slow if you can fit it in -- IOs and "frankenslotting" (mixing sets) really helps here. With SOs, I'd go with 3 EndRdx, 1 Acc, 2 Dam.

Siphon Speed could use another Recharge or two.

No travel power until 49? Unless you plan on spending all your time in the AE and never doing missions outside of the building, you will need a travel power sooner than that. AE missions are not the best way to learn how to be a controller in my opinion. Some people get by on the temp travel powers, but there are some nice benefits to the real travel powers.
Drop the Fighting pool, add Hasten and a travel power earlier. Or, you could wait until 28 and take Inertial Reduction for travel.

Health doesn't need 3 slots since you have a heal power. 1 is enough unless you get some of those nice IO procs like the Miracle +Recovery or Numina's Regen/Recovery.

Stamina could be moved to 20. Speed Boost should have an EndMod in it, not an EndRdx.

On Stealth: I wouldn't take it. If you want stealth or even invis, you can add a Stealth IO to travel powers or a Sprint power. If you want full invis, you can combine Super Speed with a Stealth IO. Another option is Smoke. (I have Smoke on my Fire/Kin, but not on my Fire/Rad -- it is OK, but skippable. I mostly use it because I have it, and not because I feel it does a lot of good. But I think it provides more benefit than Stealth, since it is helps the team if you are on a team, and even keeps the foes from seeing your Imps a little while longer if you are solo.)

Standard IO slotting for Transferance is 2 Acc, 2 EndMod, 2 Rech. For Fulcrum Shift, 2 Acc, 3 Rech.

I have the Earth APP on my Fire/Kin. I think it provides the best combo of benefits . . . a short-range AoE that has a chance to Stun, which will stack with the Stun in Flashfire. A very strong Single-target melee attack, something that Fire/Kin needs for tough foes. Defense based S/L armor, and a huge HP buff/heal.

But if you want to stick with the Psi APP set, you need to slot Indomidible Will with 3 Recharge. The main benefit of the Psi pool is IW's mez protection, so you want it up as much as possible. Also, Psi Tornado is a decent AoE damage power with knock up. (I have the Psi APP on my Fire/Rad.)


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime_Nighthawk View Post
And think about it. Smoke offers -5% to hit which is as good as the defense buffs from hover and stealth combined with only 2 extra slots as opposed to 4 used for defense enhancements... but offers it to the whole team.
It can be dangerous to rely upon to-hit debuffs to function exactly the same as Def since they don't.

I think Smoke is nifty power if you like it, but my fire/kin never needed to use it, so I respecced out of it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valon View Post
I'm kinda intrested in farming though not realy so this build is more for survivability/teaming. Please help me out a bit, it's only listing SO's Since The IO system scares me a bit.
I'm not sure whether that's an invite to suggest IO set builds or whether you'd rather stick to basic IOs.

Your datalink isn't working for me, so I'm just scanning your list. In general, I think you need more Recharge Reduction IOs in there and less triple-slotting of the same type of IO (not that triple-slotting is always bad, but you're hitting ED hard, and you need more recharge).

My advice on Fire/Kin builds depends largely upon the APP:

Fire/Kin/Stone can softcap S/L Def (even with regular IOs), and so it's an incredibly popular combination. Add in the huge HP bonus from Earth's Embrace, and it's probably the most survivable choice.

Fire/Kin/Fire can output the most damage with the almighty Fire Ball, and RotP is a very nice self-rez.

A nice debate thread between those two: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=191137

I'd only go with Fire/Kin/Psi if the goal is keep IW up permanently, which is impossible on a regular-IO build. It's far from a bad option, but I think you'd get more mileage out of the Fire or Stone APP if you're uncomfortable with IO set builds.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harkness View Post
It can be dangerous to rely upon to-hit debuffs to function exactly the same as Def since they don't.

I think Smoke is nifty power if you like it, but my fire/kin never needed to use it, so I respecced out of it.
it's very similar though. I believe the formula is something like

NetToHit = (InherentAttackAccuracy) * (1 + AccuracyEnhancement) * [ BaseToHit + ToHitBuffs - ToHitDebuffs - (Defense - DefenseDebuffs) ]

based on this formula, mathematically a defense buff and to hit debuff have the exact same overall effect.

What's your take? Regardless, I can't see any argument for taking the power pool stealth and slotting for defense when you can take Smoke and get better benefits for your whole team.


 

Posted

In the age of Ninja Run I feel less and less that a travel power is necessary, especially for Kinetics, so I agree with your decision to skip it. I've found that, overall, a team-heavy character that wants to increase travel speed benefits more from Recall Friend than any of the personal travel powers, because the team only moves as quickly as it's slower members. The exception power is Super Speed, not because it lets you move quickly, but because of the visibility and threat reduction. Super Speed is a useful power for farming, though.

One weird thing about Fire/Kinetics to look out for is the decreasing recharge rate of Fulcrum Shift. Fulcrum Shift on a pack of enemies increases your damage so much that any damage slotting you've got goes over the cap. Very high recharge farming builds eliminate damage slotting from all powers and replace them with procs, extra accuracy, etc. This isn't possible until after Fulcrum Shift is able to recharge very quickly.


 

Posted

Wow thank you all for so much input! I just got 32 last night, I'm impressed with fire imps out of the box let alone when I get to 38! I have read over the replys and I'm going to give smoke a shot today thanks to the duel build thing so I don't have to use my respec yet. Does this seem any better? I didn't take Inertial Reduction since I didn't have the spot for it, and my travel power is ninja run+sprint+hurdle+siphon speed. Let alone any temp powers I pick up. for me, I get to places fast enough to not worry and surprisingly even with no "real" travel power the few groups I go with still seem to have people slower then me. I have read a lot of guides(a lot have conflicting opinions on some things.) So with that in mind How does this revised build look? Some of the slot levels are off since I was messing around trying to get everything slotted up in different ways. I know it sounds odd though with the fire/kin is just more fun with me, and a little chalange never hurt. I'm not too comfortable with so little end reduction in the build since part of me has the nagging feeling of "Transference may be nice though it will miss at the worst times." I guess a compromise of holding blues in my tank will have to do as a plan B.

*Edit* I want to get my build down before I even begin to think about IO's According to the loading screen they didn't make the game harder to make up for them so I'm more concerned about a build rather then dedicating Xfunds to get Ystuff.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Sparkia: Level 50 Science Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char

  • (A) Accuracy
  • (3) Accuracy
  • (3) Hold Duration
  • (5) Hold Duration
  • (5) Damage Increase
  • (17) Endurance Reduction
Level 1: Transfusion
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (7) Accuracy
  • (7) Healing
  • (9) Healing
  • (9) Healing
  • (11) Recharge Reduction
Level 2: Fire Cages
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (11) Accuracy
  • (13) Damage Increase
  • (13) Damage Increase
  • (15) Endurance Reduction
  • (15) Recharge Reduction
Level 4: Siphon Power
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (17) Recharge Reduction
  • (19) Recharge Reduction
Level 6: Smoke
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (19) To Hit Debuff
  • (21) To Hit Debuff
  • (21) To Hit Debuff
  • (27) Endurance Reduction
Level 8: Hot Feet
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
  • (23) Endurance Reduction
  • (23) Endurance Reduction
  • (25) Accuracy
  • (25) Damage Increase
  • (27) Damage Increase
Level 10: Siphon Speed
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (29) Recharge Reduction
  • (29) Recharge Reduction
  • (31) Recharge Reduction
Level 12: Flashfire
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (31) Accuracy
  • (31) Recharge Reduction
  • (33) Recharge Reduction
  • (33) Disorient Duration
  • (33) Disorient Duration
Level 14: Hurdle
  • (A) Jumping
Level 16: Health
  • (A) Healing
Level 18: Cinders
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (34) Accuracy
  • (34) Recharge Reduction
  • (34) Endurance Reduction
  • (36) Hold Duration
  • (36) Hold Duration
Level 20: Stamina
  • (A) Endurance Modification
Level 22: Speed Boost
  • (A) Endurance Modification
Level 24: Increase Density
  • (A) Resist Damage
Level 26: Maneuvers
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
  • (37) Defense Buff
  • (37) Defense Buff
  • (39) Defense Buff
Level 28: Assault
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
Level 30: Tactics
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
  • (39) To Hit Buff
  • (39) To Hit Buff
  • (40) To Hit Buff
Level 32: Fire Imps
  • (A) Damage Increase
  • (40) Damage Increase
  • (40) Damage Increase
  • (42) Recharge Reduction
  • (42) Accuracy
Level 35: Transference
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (36) Accuracy
  • (37) Recharge Reduction
  • (42) Recharge Reduction
  • (46) Endurance Modification
  • (46) Endurance Modification
Level 38: Fulcrum Shift
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (43) Accuracy
  • (43) Recharge Reduction
  • (45) Recharge Reduction
  • (46) Recharge Reduction
Level 41: Hasten
  • (A) Recharge Reduction
  • (43) Recharge Reduction
Level 44: Indomitable Will
  • (A) Recharge Reduction
  • (45) Recharge Reduction
  • (45) Recharge Reduction
Level 47: Mind Over Body
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
  • (48) Resist Damage
  • (48) Resist Damage
  • (48) Resist Damage
Level 49: Psionic Tornado
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (50) Damage Increase
  • (50) Damage Increase
  • (50) Recharge Reduction
------------
Level 1: Brawl
  • (A) Accuracy
Level 1: Sprint
  • (A) Run Speed
Level 2: Rest
  • (A) Recharge Reduction
Level 1: Containment



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime_Nighthawk View Post
it's very similar though. I believe the formula is something like

NetToHit = (InherentAttackAccuracy) * (1 + AccuracyEnhancement) * [ BaseToHit + ToHitBuffs - ToHitDebuffs - (Defense - DefenseDebuffs) ]

based on this formula, mathematically a defense buff and to hit debuff have the exact same overall effect.

What's your take? Regardless, I can't see any argument for taking the power pool stealth and slotting for defense when you can take Smoke and get better benefits for your whole team.
It's really dependent on what you're fighting. If you choose to fight at -1/x8 then you'll find smoke fairs very well. However, fighting at +5/x1 the debuff of Smoke will only be 30% as effective due to level scaling. Stealth's defense bonus will remain the same effectiveness until facing +6 enemies where they gain an additional +5% tohit. As for team effectiveness, if you faced off against +4 enemies an unslotted smoke would yield similar results as an unslotted maneuvers, albeit with a much smaller endurance cost.

On some Fire builds I could see taking Smoke for its defensive capabilities and tactical options, fire/kins tend to roll over things though and find less time to use it. It's a good power, but perhaps overshadowed by the combination of fire control and kinetics.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime_Nighthawk View Post
it's very similar though. I believe the formula is something like

NetToHit = (InherentAttackAccuracy) * (1 + AccuracyEnhancement) * [ BaseToHit + ToHitBuffs - ToHitDebuffs - (Defense - DefenseDebuffs) ]

based on this formula, mathematically a defense buff and to hit debuff have the exact same overall effect.

What's your take? Regardless, I can't see any argument for taking the power pool stealth and slotting for defense when you can take Smoke and get better benefits for your whole team.
As Ketch points out, a to-hit debuff scales depending upon your opponent, and Def doesn't. Since I play Radiation Emission and Dark Miasma quite a lot, the difference is noticeable to me

I'd agree with taking it over Stealth, but then I usually only take the Stealth power pool if I'm looking to slot a lot of LotGs

I don't dislike smoke, but playing a S/L softcapped Fire/kin/stone, I don't ever have time to cast Smoke. I'm too busy killing.


 

Posted

Here are my suggestions in light of your comments:

Char: replace one of the holds with a Damage.

Transfusion: Try 2 Acc, 2 Heal, 2 Rech. Don't forget that this is your -Regen for AVs, too, so being able to use it more often is good.

Fire Cages: change the Recharge to EndRdx -- this is one place where the EndRdx is needed. It already recharges quickly.

Siphon Power: I like 2 Acc, 1 Rech. But with Tactics, 1 Acc might be enough -- but I don't use Tactic on my Fire/Kin.

Smoke: It is autohit in PvE, and only needs Accuracy in PvP -- the Accuracy is wasted. Do you use it often enough to need EndRdx? It will generally be used before the fight starts. I would go with 1-3 ToHit Debuffs and that's it.

Siphon Speed: I prefer 2 Acc, 2-3 Rech. Granted, with Tactics, one Acc might be enough.

Stamina: I would three-slot it even with Transferance, assuming you have the slots (and you do if you take two out of Smoke). You can never have too much endurance.

Since you have so little defense, do you really need Maneuvers? I like having Bonfire as a kind of "panic button" and control power, and it only really needs 1 Recharge.

I put 2 EndRdx in Assault usually. It has a continual drain on your endurance.

Psi Tornado: Once you have it, you can decide if you like the Recharge there or would get more benefit from a third Damage.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harkness View Post
As Ketch points out, a to-hit debuff scales depending upon your opponent, and Def doesn't. Since I play Radiation Emission and Dark Miasma quite a lot, the difference is noticeable to me

I'd agree with taking it over Stealth, but then I usually only take the Stealth power pool if I'm looking to slot a lot of LotGs

I don't dislike smoke, but playing a S/L softcapped Fire/kin/stone, I don't ever have time to cast Smoke. I'm too busy killing.
That may be true, but the only info I can find says differently.

http://blog.swagvault.com/2008/10/31...ense-v110beta/


According to that, there is a rank bonus and a level modifier.

Bounded[ (InherentAttackAccuracy) * (RankBuff) * (LevelBuff) * Bounded[ (BaseToHit + ToHitBuffs - ToHitDebuffs - Defense + DefenseDebuffs) ] ]

According to this, even with taking into account levels and ranks, to-hit debuffs and defense are both factored in the same way. If this is wrong or outdated, maybe you can point me in the right direction. I'd be interested in seeing how it really works.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime_Nighthawk View Post
That may be true, but the only info I can find says differently.

http://blog.swagvault.com/2008/10/31...ense-v110beta/


According to that, there is a rank bonus and a level modifier.

Bounded[ (InherentAttackAccuracy) * (RankBuff) * (LevelBuff) * Bounded[ (BaseToHit + ToHitBuffs - ToHitDebuffs - Defense + DefenseDebuffs) ] ]

According to this, even with taking into account levels and ranks, to-hit debuffs and defense are both factored in the same way. If this is wrong or outdated, maybe you can point me in the right direction. I'd be interested in seeing how it really works.
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Purple_Patch
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics

The site you linked is accurate in its description of the attack mechanics. The part that you're missing is the effectiveness of tohit debuffs due to level scaling. You'll find that described in the wiki's entry on the Purple Patch. Essentially, the debuff is resisted before that number even goes into the attack formula.


 

Posted

I don't want to interrupt the argument over smoke since that is actualy verry helpful. I have noticed +1/6 spawn smoke has made a realy big difrence. Sometimes when there are two groups fused into this legion like mass I can drop a smoke in the front, then the back (front so I can get close enough) Then just deal with the front or make sure I have a purple or two. I find it helpful, and I'm enjoying the fact it shows up on the mobs so clearly. Since I was worried it would be hard to see on the darker uniformed guys like the malta/arach.

I'm thinking of just holding blue like they are my lover till 35. It's only 3 levels so I'm going to stick with it till then. On a completely unrelated not though, trap of the hunter is a very cheap set apparently since some one helped me with IO's a bit on my server and I can see why people love them so much!

*Note to Local Man!* Your ill/rad guide is very solid, when I buy more hero slots I'm making one just cause of that guide.


 

Posted

I haven't used Smoke a lot, but I was under the impression that because it is uncontested the -ToHit doesn't scale. I thought that if your base -ToHit was 5% or whatever that it was -5% regardless of the level or any resistances the enemy might have. I'm pretty sure it works that way with AV resistances at least. Maybe the Purple Patch/level based resistance is different?

EDIT: Nevermind. I see someone already addressed this. Maybe next time I should read all the posts before commenting.

RE-EDIT: Nevermind again. I don't think the linked material addresses the special mechanics of uncontested powers. Someone more resourceful than me want to search for the mechanics of Smoke's sister power Flash Arrow. Someone explained how that worked a while back.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
I haven't used Smoke a lot, but I was under the impression that because it is uncontested the -ToHit doesn't scale. I thought that if your base -ToHit was 5% or whatever that it was -5% regardless of the level or any resistances the enemy might have. I'm pretty sure it works that way with AV resistances at least. Maybe the Purple Patch/level based resistance is different?

EDIT: Nevermind. I see someone already addressed this. Maybe next time I should read all the posts before commenting.

RE-EDIT: Nevermind again. I don't think the linked material addresses the special mechanics of uncontested powers. Someone more resourceful than me want to search for the mechanics of Smoke's sister power Flash Arrow. Someone explained how that worked a while back.
City of Data reports Flash Arrow as Unresistable. Smoke, however, isn't flagged the same. This could be an error or not. I haven't used either power extensively to be sure.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ketch View Post
City of Data reports Flash Arrow as Unresistable. Smoke, however, isn't flagged the same. This could be an error or not. I haven't used either power extensively to be sure.
Weird.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valon View Post
I don't want to interrupt the argument over smoke since that is actualy verry helpful. I have noticed +1/6 spawn smoke has made a realy big difrence. Sometimes when there are two groups fused into this legion like mass I can drop a smoke in the front, then the back (front so I can get close enough) Then just deal with the front or make sure I have a purple or two. I find it helpful, and I'm enjoying the fact it shows up on the mobs so clearly. Since I was worried it would be hard to see on the darker uniformed guys like the malta/arach.

I'm thinking of just holding blue like they are my lover till 35. It's only 3 levels so I'm going to stick with it till then. On a completely unrelated not though, trap of the hunter is a very cheap set apparently since some one helped me with IO's a bit on my server and I can see why people love them so much!

*Note to Local Man!* Your ill/rad guide is very solid, when I buy more hero slots I'm making one just cause of that guide.
Exactly. It can also work wonders on patroling mobs. Smoke may not make much of a difference on your average pull, but on occasion it makes a HUGE difference-- like wipe saving difference. So I think it's almost worth it even without the to-hit debuff. And even at severely reduced effectiveness, -5% to hit his competitive with the defense buffs you will find in skills like Maneuvers, Stealth, and Hover. Even Weave.