Well, i don't know CC very well, but i DO know about TK.
1) It has a 5 target max. This isn't an issue if you're trying to grab containment on a single or a few targets.
2) It pushes foes away, and unless you have a CORNER or you like to keep moving, simply pining them to a wall won't do because the foes will scatter sideways and eventually be unheld
3) Its base recharge is 60 seconds. It would be best to use Tk to clump foes, hit your AoE and terrify, then let go, THEN hit Mass hypnosis and hit your AoE again. It might just be better to use mass hyp along with Mass Confusion so that you don't get agro'd on when the foes wake up.
I don't know much about CC so i can't definitely recommend it over TK, but it it would seem to be the better power in this case.
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
That's a weird nut to crack. TK can be a situationally-awesome power, but CC draws a lot of benefit from the diverse set of IOs available. Since Mind/ has tools that make melee less threatening, and /rad sometimes likes to be in melee, I'd say go with the Cloud. I love it on my Ice/Rad and my Rad/Rad; my Rad/Rad has it slotted:
Lockdown - EndRechHold
Lockdown - Hold%
UnbreakableConstraint - Hold
UnbreakableConstraint - HoldEnd
GhostWidowEmbrace - HoldEnd
EssenceOfCurare - HoldEnd
That gets something like 103% Hold duration enhancement, and 95% Endurance reduction. While the proc is nice, the Hold Duration enhancement % is the key; usually things are held so long off a single Cloud tick that I get two more ticks to stack it, plus more chances for the proc to fire off and stack with that - end result is usually a lot of minions and Lt's coughing and doing nothing as I whittle away at the boss.
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I know them both . . . Take a look at my Ill/Rad guide for a discussion about Choking Cloud and its mechanics. I have tried CC on several characters, and the only ones I would keep Choking Cloud on are Fire/Rad and Ice/Rad -- great on those. Maybe Plant/Rad, but you really don't need it. Mind/Rad just doesn't have the combo of powers to make Choking Cloud effective, even with good slotting. The problem is that CC requires some kind of power to implement an initial control to give it time for the pulses to hit, and then something else to work on the foes once they are held. Fire has Flashfire and Hotfeet. Ice has Ice Slick and Arctic Air. Mind doesn't really have anything that quite compares.|
Originally Posted by Biospark
Hello folks,
I am playing a Mind/Rad quite frequently these days and have one quandry that will need to be answered eventually. My build will have room for one of these two powers to assist in setting up containment more regularly. After reading guides and veteran opinions, there seems to be a few good reasons to take either of these two powers. Telekinesis: Auto-Hit, huge cost. My strategy would be burst usage to hold and clump a group follow-up with Terrify+Fireball, drop TK and wait for Terrify to recyle. This rotation seems like it would be slow, but reliable in setting contain. But would require surfaces to get good "clumps". Not to mention expertise. Team-friendly it may not be, since most teams would be too impatient. Chocking Cloud: reliable versus Minions and Lts with setup time. RI would help alot and confusion to clump things up. More passive and potentially more group friendly, but would it "cost" more endurance than short bursts of TK. Also CC would be awesome with the Lockdown proc. Actually, IO options are much better with this power, since TK cannot be slotted with IO sets at all. Any opinions regarding which would help MC set containment better is welcome, and thanks in advance.  |
Telekinesis is also a situational power. In those Situations, it can be quite effective, but I consider it to be the single most skippable power in the Mind primary.
Of the two, I would take TK over CC. But for a Mind/Rad, I suggest skipping both, plus Fallout and Mutation to fit in your 2 travel powers, fitness and Hasten.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Thanks for the replies Folks,
Steele, I did not know there was a 5 mob limit on TK. Thats a pretty serious drawback considering its cost.
Guero, Sounds like you are thinking along the same lines that I am, and I am definitely leaning towards CC at the moment.
Local, Thanks for your reply, I have actually read your guides several times. Lots of info there. I kinda do want one of these two powers, because even though I could alternate, Mass Dom, Mass Hypno, and EMP to set contain, I am trying to get something more along the recharge time of Terrify other than Mass Hypnosis. Additionally, I think Radiation plays pretty well in melee range, so CC would synergize well with Mass Confusion clumping and running RI+EF.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Quote:
If you take Choking Cloud, I recommend first that you max slot for Hold and EndRdx. Then, if you were able to get if fully slotted for these attributes by Frankenslotting, try to put the Lockdown +2 Mag in Choking Cloud -- due to the mechanics of the power and how it stacks mag, that proc is particularly useful. Then, if you have room (probably at level 50 with a Purple Hold/EndRdx), you can try to fit in a damage proc.
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Originally Posted by Biospark
Thanks for the replies Folks,
Steele, I did not know there was a 5 mob limit on TK. Thats a pretty serious drawback considering its cost. Guero, Sounds like you are thinking along the same lines that I am, and I am definitely leaning towards CC at the moment. Local, Thanks for your reply, I have actually read your guides several times. Lots of info there. I kinda do want one of these two powers, because even though I could alternate, Mass Dom, Mass Hypno, and EMP to set contain, I am trying to get something more along the recharge time of Terrify other than Mass Hypnosis. Additionally, I think Radiation plays pretty well in melee range, so CC would synergize well with Mass Confusion clumping and running RI+EF. |
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I have a mind/rad which uses choking cloud and I find it quite useful. Naturally, it falls behind the many other control options you have, but there are cases where I find it useful. Using Mass Hypnosis then wading into the crowd gives CC a chance to work while you use your other controls on active spawns. It's not a tactic I use in all cases, but for the few mobs with Confuse protection it does help.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
If you take Choking Cloud, I recommend first that you max slot for Hold and EndRdx. Then, if you were able to get if fully slotted for these attributes by Frankenslotting, try to put the Lockdown +2 Mag in Choking Cloud -- due to the mechanics of the power and how it stacks mag, that proc is particularly useful. Then, if you have room (probably at level 50 with a Purple Hold/EndRdx), you can try to fit in a damage proc.
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Yeah the build I am currently toying with has it 6-slotted and even running all my toggles (and near perma-AM 121sec), I would have excess 2eps over the toggles costs (RI, EF, CC, Epic Shield, Hover). This looks good on paper.
If I went with TK, 2-4 of those slots could be reclaimed for other powers.
Losing set bonuses would be a wash in that case if the slots were put to good use in other powers. But the big sticking point would be which of the 2 powers would have greater overall usefullness for setting contain (both Solo and Teamed).
For Teams, I assume that both will be less able to be leveraged. CC would take more time to develop, while TK requires good control and technique.
Solo, both seem just as viable, with CC being easier to manage since no repel effect to deal with.
I guess its just try em both and see.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Hello folks,
I am playing a Mind/Rad quite frequently these days and have one quandry that will need to be answered eventually. My build will have room for one of these two powers to assist in setting up containment more regularly. After reading guides and veteran opinions, there seems to be a few good reasons to take either of these two powers.
Telekinesis: Auto-Hit, huge cost. My strategy would be burst usage to hold and clump a group follow-up with Terrify+Fireball, drop TK and wait for Terrify to recyle. This rotation seems like it would be slow, but reliable in setting contain. But would require surfaces to get good "clumps". Not to mention expertise. Team-friendly it may not be, since most teams would be too impatient.
Chocking Cloud: reliable versus Minions and Lts with setup time. RI would help alot and confusion to clump things up. More passive and potentially more group friendly, but would it "cost" more endurance than short bursts of TK. Also CC would be awesome with the Lockdown proc. Actually, IO options are much better with this power, since TK cannot be slotted with IO sets at all.
Any opinions regarding which would help MC set containment better is welcome, and thanks in advance.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF