You might want to consider taking Taunt. The main weakness of Willpower on a Tank is that it has an extremely weak taunt component compared to most Tanker primaries. Without Taunt you may have trouble holding aggro.
Even with the Taunt sets slotted in the powers?
I'm by no means an expert but I had my attacks with a slot dedicated to taunt and promptly changed it once I realized that since they'll be in melee range of your aura anyway it's not really necessary and neither is taunt for that matter but if it came down to the two I would prefer having a ranged power that can taunt 5 foes at once.
Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
You definitely do NOT want to slot your attacks solely with Taunt IOs. All Tanker secondary attacks already have an inherent taunt component, but even worse, as is they are completely unslotted for damage and end reduction, and underslotted for accuracy. A tank's primary job is to manage aggro, but doing damage is important too! The same goes for the Stun and KB sets, they simply do not slot attacks adequately by themselves. In addition, the KB enhancement in Shatter and CC will change the knockdown in those attacks to knock*back*, which believe me, is in most circumstances A Very Bad Thing.
I agree that taking Taunt is a good idea for ranged aggro control, and to supplement Gauntlet and RttCs taunt. To make room for it I'd personally drop the rez like a hot potato, but dropping either Pulverize or Jawbreaker is also an option.
Willpower does not need KB protection, IW takes care of that, so that -KB IO in HPT is completely unnecessary.
I really can't tell if you are working toward a specific bonus type other than regen, or if you are, what it is. Your slotting is all over the place, some powers are vastly overslotted (MoB, QR, Stamina) and some are very underslotted (HPT, HS). For resistance or defense powers, you should try to enhance the def or res to around 56%. A few percentage points off is fine, but currently HPT and HS are way, way off.
In general, your power choice and order is fine, though I would pick up Taunt and try to work HS in earlier in the build. It's mostly slotting that's a problem, so if you could let us know what sort of bonuses you're looking for you could get more specific advice. But at the very least, correct your attack slotting!
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Also, I would suggest reading Heraclea's guide to managing aggro as a WP tanker
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=127125
Regarding Rise to the Challenge... any reason you're waiting until 26 to take it? Since it is your taunt aura I would highly suggest taking it sooner. Also you may want to slot it for taunt, Heraclea's guide explains the reason for this very well.
A lot of people comment on WPs weaker aggro control... I read that guide a few times before teaming with my WP/SS tank and have yet to have any aggro issues.
Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
Quote:
Heh, I didn't even notice that but as Finduilas said that isn't really very good slotting. The problem that you run into without Taunt is that the duration on RttC is extremely low. For most taunt auras the duration is 16+ seconds. So when you and an enemy move apart (irregardless of wherever you moved away or they got knocked back) the taunt effect remains one them for some time allowing time for them to come back in range. With RTTC the duration is 1.25s which is sufficient for keeping them taunted while in close range but means that the effect will be lost almost immediately if they move outside the aura. If that happens to an enemy that you had recently attacked then they will probably come back but if you hadn't punched them recently then they may go after someone else at which point you have the choice of either running after them (and potentially losing aggro on someone else) or letting them run free.
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Originally Posted by Mortimer_NA
Even with the Taunt sets slotted in the powers?
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Quote:
Which takes us back to "slotting CC and Shatter with KB sets=Very Bad Idea". |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Heh, I didn't even notice that but as Finduilas said that isn't really very good slotting. The problem that you run into without Taunt is that the duration on RttC is extremely low. For most taunt auras the duration is 16+ seconds. So when you and an enemy move apart (irregardless of wherever you moved away or they got knocked back) the taunt effect remains one them for some time allowing time for them to come back in range. With RTTC the duration is 1.25s which is sufficient for keeping them taunted while in close range but means that the effect will be lost almost immediately if they move outside the aura. If that happens to an enemy that you had recently attacked then they will probably come back but if you hadn't punched them recently then they may go after someone else at which point you have the choice of either running after them (and potentially losing aggro on someone else) or letting them run free.
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Slotting Taunt Duration IOs in RttC, however, is a Very GOOD Idea.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mortimer_NA
Even with the Taunt sets slotted in the powers?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
The problem that you run into without Taunt is that the duration on RttC is extremely low. For most taunt auras the duration is 16+ seconds. So when you and an enemy move apart (irregardless of wherever you moved away or they got knocked back) the taunt effect remains one them for some time allowing time for them to come back in range. With RTTC the duration is 1.25s which is sufficient for keeping them taunted while in close range but means that the effect will be lost almost immediately if they move outside the aura.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Thanks a lot guys. I am really new to tanking so I had no idea what I was doing. I appreciate all the suggestions. Only other set bonus I was really going for was recharge. Not sure if thats necessary though. I will try reworking build and post it for further scrutiny. Keep the great ideas coming. Oh and thanks for the guide you posted(I forget who did that right now...but thanks lol) As this is my first foray into tanking I dont wanna screw up TOO badly haha.
Here's hoping I didn't miss the point.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Earth Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(5), Numna-Heal/Rchg(7), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Mrcl-Rcvry+(37), Mrcl-Heal(37)
Level 1: Bash -- P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(3), P'ngS'Fest-Stun%(42)
Level 2: Pulverize -- P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(3), P'ngS'Fest-Stun%(40)
Level 4: Mind Over Body -- ImpArm-ResDam(A), ImpArm-ResPsi(5), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(7), S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(17), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(36), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(36)
Level 6: Jawbreaker -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(15), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(34), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(9), Taunt-I(9), Taunt-I(11), Taunt-I(11), DarkWD-Slow%(13)
Level 10: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(15), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(34), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(50)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(19), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(19), Numna-Heal/Rchg(31)
Level 20: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(21), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(21), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(23)
Level 22: Quick Recovery -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(25), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(25), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(27)
Level 24: Fast Healing -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(27), Numna-Heal/Rchg(29), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 26: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(29), LkGmblr-Def(36), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 28: Whirling Mace -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(33), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(33), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), Taunt-I(34)
Level 30: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Strength of Will -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 35: Shatter -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(42), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(42)
Level 41: Salt Crystals -- CSndmn-Acc/Rchg(A), CSndmn-EndRdx/Sleep(43), CSndmn-Sleep/Rng(43), CSndmn-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(45), CSndmn-Acc/EndRdx(46)
Level 44: Quick Sand -- P'ngTtl-Acc/Slow(A), P'ngTtl-Dmg/Slow(45), P'ngTtl-Rng/Slow(45), P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(46), P'ngTtl--Rchg%(46)
Level 47: Stalagmites -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Resurgence -- RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
It's better in some ways, but in others, not so much.
For instance, your power selection was much better in the first build. You absolutely do *not* want to skip Clobber, the highest damaging, guaranteed stun, Mac Daddy attack of War Mace. Drop Pulverize or Jawbreaker instead. You also need Heightened Senses, it provides all the available defense in WP. I'd strongly recommend that you drop Resurgence instead, or one of the epic powers.
Indomitable Will is your mez protection and should be taken by level 10, and Fast Healing should also be taken much sooner. QR actually provides more recovery than Stamina, so I'd take it at 12 and move the Fitness pool into the 20s so you have room for IW, QR and FH earlier. I like taking Taunt at 10, but if necessary it can be delayed so you can fit your critical primary powers in early.
For attack slotting, I think you should allocate enough slots so that every attack is at least 5-slotted. You can get away with 4 slots in a seldom used or Tier 1 attack if you really need the slots elsewhere, but 5 is a good rule of thumb. So in this build I recommend that you find 4 or 5 slots additional slots for your attacks--that's especially true if you are going to use IOs like the Pounding Slugfest Disorient, since they don't provide any of the usual acc/dam/end red/rchg enhancement.
I see that I wasn't clear enough when I said that HPT was underslotted; it provides regen and resistance, and it was underslotted for the resistance portion. Slotting the SP +def there was fine; it just need more resistance slotting. I'd drop the two Miracles and the Numina Triple and replace it with the SP and two other resist IOs--even common IOs would do.
Mind over Body is still very overslotted. Toggles of that sort that have one main purpose that needs to be enhanced--in this case, S/L/Psi resistance--almost never need more than 4 slots. The 4 Imperv Armors will be more than sufficient, and that will free up two slots for your attacks. (IMO the Psi resist IO is a waste since WP has plenty of other Psi damage mitigation. I'd use the Imperv Res/End/Rchg instead.)
Rise to the Challenge is WP's taunt aura, but it also provides significant amounts of regen, and should be slotted accordingly. 3 or 4 Healing set IOs and 1 or 2 Taunt durations is the way to go. Procs aren't usually recommended for toggles, since the proc only has a chance to go off every 10 seconds; I'd skip the Dark Watcher's proc.
Health, Stamina, QR and FH are all reasonably slotted, so power order is the only issue there. Indomitable Will's defense slotting just increases your Psi defense, so if you need slots pulling a couple from IW is an option.
After that, I'd throw another slot in Shatter and be done!
Oh, I'd recommend a power order something like this; it's your picks but with the two selection changes I suggested:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 48 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Earth Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Bash -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Fast Healing -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Jawbreaker -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Indomitable Will -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Taunt -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Super Speed -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Mind Over Body -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Clobber -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Heightened Senses -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Whirling Mace -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Build Up -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Shatter -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Strength of Will -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Salt Crystals -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Quick Sand -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Stalagmites -- Empty(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
A few more comments on slotting.
As Finduilas said you want to take Heightened Senses for the defense. It's typed defense rather than positional so you should also look at sets that build on that. In particular 4-slotting Kinetic Combats in a few of your single target attacks will give you a nice chunk of S/L Defense. You probably don't want to rely on Defense to much, you can't easily softcap it and Willpower doesn't have DDR, but even a small amount of defense can make a noticeable difference especially when it's layered with other forms of mitigation.
In Stalagmites you should replace the Dam/Range with the Proc. Positron's Blast is over-slotted for damage, and range doesn't really matter so putting in the proc will increase the damage that you deal with Stalagmites without costing you the set bonuses.
Finally remember the Rule of Five. If you click on "View Active Sets" in Mid's you'll notice that you've got to many 10% Regen Bonuses and 9% Accuracy Bonuses. Sometimes it makes sense to go over the cap to get a better set bonus but in this case you can easily change your slotting to get a useable set bonus without impacting anything else so you might as well do it.
So I have been messing around with MIDS and came up with this build. This is my first tank and I dont know if this will play as well as the numbers lead me to believe. Feel free to tear this apart and make it work. THanks all.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(5), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Numna-Heal(25), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(25), S'fstPrt-ResKB(27)
Level 1: Bash -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(3), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(13), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(36), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(36)
Level 2: Pulverize -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(3), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(11), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(17), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(36)
Level 4: Mind Over Body -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(5), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg(7), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), ImpArm-ResDam(29), ImpArm-ResPsi(29)
Level 6: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(9), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 8: Jawbreaker -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(9), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(11), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(17), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(37), Zinger-Dam%(48)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 12: Fast Healing -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(13), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Numna-Heal(15), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(37)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Winter-ResSlow(A), Winter-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng(19)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- RgnTis-Regen+(A), Numna-Heal(19), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(33), Numna-Heal/Rchg(37), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(21), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(21), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(43), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(45), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(45)
Level 22: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(23), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(23), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(43), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(43), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(45)
Level 24: Clobber -- Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(A), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(34), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(50)
Level 26: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(31), Numna-Heal/Rchg(31), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 28: Whirling Mace -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(33), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(34), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34)
Level 30: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Shatter -- KinCrsh-Dmg/KB(A), KinCrsh-Acc/KB(39), KinCrsh-Rchg/KB(39), KinCrsh-Rechg/EndRdx(42), KinCrsh-Dmg/EndRdx/KB(42), KinCrsh-Acc/Dmg/KB(46)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- FrcFbk-Dmg/KB(A), FrcFbk-Acc/KB(39), FrcFbk-Rchg/KB(40), FrcFbk-Dmg/EndRdx/KB(40), FrcFbk-Rechg%(40)
Level 41: Strength of Will -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(46), ResDam-I(46)
Level 44: Resurgence -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Focused Accuracy -- ToHit-I(A)
Level 49: Physical Perfection -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(50), Numna-Heal/Rchg(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet