Shields and Power "handedness"


Alamo

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Well wait a second...

I think it could work, it'd just require new claws and shields. If you choose this power combination, maybe it'd lock the normal "claws" and "shields" options in the costume section and replace it with "gauntlets" or something. Basically, Gauntlets would be shields with claws sticking out on each arm OR clawed gloves that had shields on the back of the hands. You probably couldn't customize the individual claws/shield parts but the weapon as a whole. Incidentally, I don't think that'd work with Spines or Dual Blades.
Well, with a primary and secondary being locked into pairing with each other it's almost more the basis for a new EAT. The small shields that would occasionally have blades or spikes attached were bucklers IIRC.

So the new Buck Buck AT starts out with a chicken costume and really badass looking Bladed Bucklers as their default outfit.


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Well wait a second...

I think it could work, it'd just require new claws and shields. If you choose this power combination, maybe it'd lock the normal "claws" and "shields" options in the costume section and replace it with "gauntlets" or something. Basically, Gauntlets would be shields with claws sticking out on each arm OR clawed gloves that had shields on the back of the hands. You probably couldn't customize the individual claws/shield parts but the weapon as a whole. Incidentally, I don't think that'd work with Spines or Dual Blades.
The problem with that is that you'd have to limit both weapon and shield selections depending on both the primary and the secondary, so that the "gauntlet" pieces appeared only when both Claws and Shield were chosen. That would probably require either an engine update or creating a new version of Claws and Shield Defense that only work with each other and have different weapons. Either would probably be too much work right now...


Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name

[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StrykerX View Post
The problem with that is that you'd have to limit both weapon and shield selections depending on both the primary and the secondary, so that the "gauntlet" pieces appeared only when both Claws and Shield were chosen. That would probably require either an engine update or creating a new version of Claws and Shield Defense that only work with each other and have different weapons. Either would probably be too much work right now...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schismatrix View Post
Well, with a primary and secondary being locked into pairing with each other it's almost more the basis for a new EAT. The small shields that would occasionally have blades or spikes attached were bucklers IIRC.

So the new Buck Buck AT starts out with a chicken costume and really badass looking Bladed Bucklers as their default outfit.
New EAT then? Eh? Eh?!

Magic Hate Ball's response to my suggestion: "Probably, but you suck"


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

Okay, #1:

There are attacks in all Melee sets that use both hands. The development of the Shield powerset required the creation of a NEW set of animations for each melee set that limited the attack to one hand. Thus, for instance, Energy Melee with the pink pom poms generates only one pom pom and uses only that fist when carrying a Shield. The Barrage attack, which normally uses both fists, will use only one fist, and change the animation so it takes the same amount of time, but doesn't strike twice. (Or it strikes twice with the same hand, I haven't tried the combo to know that)

What this means is that in theory there could be a combination of Claws with Shield, BUT THAT CLAW WOULD HAVE TO BE ON ONLY ONE HAND. Your claws would spring out of the right hand, not the left one. Likewise, Spines would have to spring out of your right arm and body, but your left arm would either have to be bare, or the spines would need to be adapted to avoid clipping with the sheild.

Now, #2:

In addition to the above, physical weapons attached to the wielder have to be attached at a node. The pink pom poms are not a physical weapon, they are an effect overlaid over the character model. Likewise, the sword summoned by Fire Sword is (I believe) not a true sword, it is simply a particle graphic. Weapons are separate entities with their own wireframe and texture that are "connected" to a player model at a "node".

So again, the Claws, if they were to be used with a Shield, would have to be attached to only one hand. Claws as a set, however, is designed around having TWO claws, each attached to a node. Dual Blades is the same. It could be possible to have Dual Blades essentially become Broadsword when a Shield is added, but that's probably not possible, because removing a weapon from a node is a much more difficult task than removing a graphic from one arm or the other. You wouldn't be able to make Claws or Dual Blades would with Sheilds without removing the blade from the left arm for ALL players.

Spines I'm not really sure about. It seems odd. In some ways it seems like a weapon, but in others it seems like a graphic. It was the only set that could not be customized as a weapon customization, but it doesn't seem to quite fit Power Customization. The "shard" fired by Spines attacks could be customized, but the color and "splash" of toxic goo that comes out with the spine couldn't. According to BaBs, this was because "you can either customize a power effect OR a weapon." So I'm guessing this means that Spines, even though it is customized as a power, is actually appearing as a weapon. Probably, like Stone Armor and the like, it is anchored to various nodes around the body.

What might be neat, though, is to have a option for Spines which puts a spiny "shield" on one or both arms in addition to the spine "blades". It wouldn't act like the Shield set, but it would give you an option that would look like a shield with spines, at least for role playing purposes.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon View Post
Okay, #1:

There are attacks in all Melee sets that use both hands. The development of the Shield powerset required the creation of a NEW set of animations for each melee set that limited the attack to one hand. Thus, for instance, Energy Melee with the pink pom poms generates only one pom pom and uses only that fist when carrying a Shield. The Barrage attack, which normally uses both fists, will use only one fist, and change the animation so it takes the same amount of time, but doesn't strike twice. (Or it strikes twice with the same hand, I haven't tried the combo to know that)

What this means is that in theory there could be a combination of Claws with Shield, BUT THAT CLAW WOULD HAVE TO BE ON ONLY ONE HAND. Your claws would spring out of the right hand, not the left one. Likewise, Spines would have to spring out of your right arm and body, but your left arm would either have to be bare, or the spines would need to be adapted to avoid clipping with the sheild.
Yes, the solution sounds simple, and I'm sure the devs have thought about it, because, let's face it, it's a pretty obvious solution. My assumption is, however, that weapon sets don't function the way other power sets do, rack it up to weapons customization changing the way it functions, but odds are the only way to do it would be to completely re-make the set a second time using just a single node to make it work. It still doesn't solve Dual Blades' issue.

Quote:
Now, #2:

In addition to the above, physical weapons attached to the wielder have to be attached at a node. The pink pom poms are not a physical weapon, they are an effect overlaid over the character model. Likewise, the sword summoned by Fire Sword is (I believe) not a true sword, it is simply a particle graphic. Weapons are separate entities with their own wireframe and texture that are "connected" to a player model at a "node".

So again, the Claws, if they were to be used with a Shield, would have to be attached to only one hand. Claws as a set, however, is designed around having TWO claws, each attached to a node. Dual Blades is the same. It could be possible to have Dual Blades essentially become Broadsword when a Shield is added, but that's probably not possible, because removing a weapon from a node is a much more difficult task than removing a graphic from one arm or the other. You wouldn't be able to make Claws or Dual Blades would with Sheilds without removing the blade from the left arm for ALL players.
ok, so here you're just saying what I just replied, so you're really countering your own argument, which makes my head hurt a bit.


No

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

I think you underestimate our fools, sir.

Why /duel is a bad idea

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyonico View Post
ok, so here you're just saying what I just replied, so you're really countering your own argument, which makes my head hurt a bit.
Yes, that was what I was saying. I was countering my own argument.

Basically, what I said was, "#1, here's why it wouldn't be like what you are thinking. It'd be Claw, not Claws. And #2, here's why that wouldn't work either."

Just clarification, really.