Tri-form/Human Peacbringer or Warshade?

I just rolled my first 50 hero. I've heard various different things in-game compared to the forums. I'm curious to know what is better for each archetype because I plan to make both, and send my warshade to villains once Going Rogue comes around.

What is better for a peacebringer: Human or Tri-Form?

What is better for a warshade: Human or Tri-Form?

I'm only interested in Human and triform builds, not dual form (unless you've got a significantly good reason for it, but I would like to be able to play all 3 on one of them and go human on the other)

When you give an opinion, please give a reason to support it, and even provide a build if you can. Any softcaps or builds able to solo in each form are welcome obviously.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Hey! Welcome to the Kheldian forums.

If you are rolling your first Kheldian, then my recommendation is to roll a tri-form Peacebringer to start out... The reasoning behind this is that Warshades are notoriously more difficult for Kheldian first-timers, not only because several of their powers require both live and dead bodies, but also because their performance is "momentum-based." Ever hear the story of the turtle and the rabbit racing? It's sort of like the Peacebringer/Warshade match-up. A Peacebringer has a more rock-steady continuous-flow-more-reliable performance, whereas the Warshade can build up crazy momentum/carnage, and suddenly drop off on performance when there are no more bodies on the ground.

Once you've mastered a tri-form Peacebringer, I'd suggest going human-only on your Peacebringer's second build for a highly-surviveable "blapper-style" play. After that, make a tri-form Warshade and master that. Then on the Warshade's second build, attempt to master a human-only Warshade.

If you try playing Kheldians in this order, it will really smooth over the learning curve with Kheldian play and powers, and you'll have a much more enjoyable experience overall... If you try those steps out of order, you'll just get frustrated, as trying a human-only Warshade before anything else (for example) proves to be much too difficult and frustrating for most CoH players.

"Alien"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

Thanks for the info. I'll revisit this thread after I've played around with some Khelds for awhile.

I did it sort of backwards from what AlienOne said. My first kheldian was a TriFormShade, but I knew what I was getting into. I did a lot of reading, specifically Plasma's Guide (which is amazing). I learned all the binds I'd need and jumped into the dancing shade. After getting that to fifty, I jumped into a human form PB and played it like a /regen blapper. It leaves me with less capability than a triform PB, but I get more out of the powers I have. It hasn't been easy, but regardless, it's been a fun ride.

The reason a Tri-form peacebringer is a little easier to play than the TriFormShade is the way they operate. A PB typically wants to stay in the form it's in, whereas a shade wants to be switching forms all the time. Warshades have clicky buffs that keep through forms and really require a lot of attention. A shade may have higher highs than a PB, but there is a cost. Your timing has to be dead on. I have found that indecision and distraction are my greatest enemies.

I'm not trying to debunk anything AlienOne said, because if you want to ease into Kheldians, that's surely the way to do it. I jumped in head first and almost drowned, but I was looking for the challenge. If you're prepared for it, you can jump into warshades, however I highly recommend starting with a Tri-form PB. That will get you used to shifting forms to the situation without the dire need to be hyper-attentive.

Dechs, do you have a link to Plasma's guide that I can look at and cross reference it to Alienone's little tidbit he posted here? All this info is valuable, I've been spending some time reading up binds for switching etc.

I did the same thing as Dechs, though not quite. I picked a Warshade because purple > white and then I did all the reading up So although I knew what I was getting into by level 2, I didn't right at the start.

If you are one of those that plays games on 'master' difficulty without playing through on 'normal' first then you can probably get away with reading up and jumping straight into tri-form Warshades, if not then as AlienOne says, getting into PB's is a good introduction to all the form shifting that a Warshade will require, without making it quite as important as it would be to a Warshade.

Ultimately however I think PB's work to the human only build better, and Warshades lend themselves to tri-form better, but there are many people that have jumped in the deep end with Warshades, not liked it and given up.

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Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

Not a fan of Human only builds ... thats like playing at a 3rd of what the toon is capable of doing!! However -- if you must, do a human Peacebringer

The PB tri form is like a jack of all trades kind of thing -- best at none, capable of all.

The WS tri form is ... boom boom boom dead baddies kind of play style IMO. It requries lots of attention and focus to get the most of it, but when you are successful at this you are an ultimate alien death bringer. They also require a lot of money to slot -- that is if you want it to be 'uber' at what it does best


For first kheld...I'd try the PB first triform -- try all the powers you are interested in as they are similar in both AT and forms. Then you can move on to trying different things.

If you want an end-game character of destruction - WS


as stated above ... Khelds have a stricter learning curve so be ready

I also recommend PB before WS.

Of course, just to be fair, I was completely bored by my Peacebringer, but I love my Warshade, which is why my WS is at 46 and my PB is at 12.

I would say to at least get a Peacebringer to level 20 before starting a Warshade. The reason for this is because the powers in all 3 Peacebringer forms are easier at the beginning, in my opinion, and allow you to learn more about how and when to bounce back and forth between forms.

Each form has its own strengths and weaknesses, and swapping between the three will allow you a wide number of options in combat. Staying in one form is also fine, but cool stuff awaits those who swap forms creatively. Here are a few random tips:

- Each Transformation to Dwarf or Nova takes about 4 seconds. That's 4 seconds of you being under enemy fire without the chance to fire back. See what you can do to minimize the risk you undertake when transforming in a fight so that you don't get killed before firing off a shot. Dropping to Human form is instant, though, so if you're in danger of taking some damage as a Nova or unable to escape as a Dwarf and there's no time to transform, drop back into Human form.

- Know when to transform. I know it's fun to go all 'splodey (I got kicked from a team once because I spammed the animation when Kheldians just came out), and I know that the AoE on your Nova Form just recharged and you want to use it because your Human Form's attacks are still recharging, but there are times when you should just settle down and stay in the shape you're currently in.

- Don't feel like you have to fully slot all the powers in your forms. Kheldians get a lot of powers, and slots are more precious than gold. If you never use a power, then don't slot it. Also, try to slot efficiently with Human Form powers, be it focusing on one power at a time or putting in just enough for them all to work, then fleshing them out later. I've seen people go either way, and both can work.

Personally, I made a Peacebringer before I made a Warshade, and played it to SO level, and although I agree that it's a less complicated AT, my Peacebringer ultimately languished in the mid-20s while my Warshade swiftly leveled to 50.

I think Warshades are much more engaging to play; the complexity of the AT and the quirkiness of the playstyle are more than paid off by its sheer power and versatility once you get the hang of it.

If you're a person who is already fairly familiar with game mechanics, or one who learns and adapts quickly, you might just as well go ahead with the Warshade. Sure, it's a steeper learning curve and there are a lot of nuances to pick up along the way, but it isn't like it's brain surgery either.

Just don't think that you can coast to 50 on the coattails of teammates or get powerleveled and still be able to play a kheld well. Flatly you cannot, if it's your first time. There's no faking it. Some things you have to learn how to use for them to be effective, and the kheld powersets (especially Warshades) are full of those kinds of things.

Either one you chooose, I suggest you try tri-form first, so you'll gain a first-hand appreciation of the versatility of the AT and the many things that it can do, before you try a human-only build.

Another factor to consider is how often you're going to be playing your new kheld. If you're a casual player with long breaks between playing sessions, and/or if you're prone to altitis and might switch to another toon or three for a few weeks then you might stick with Peacebringers. Every frickin' time I leave the game for the real world for longer than a week, it seems I forget everything I ever learned about my Warshade, while my Peacebringer took no readjustment at all.

Now that may just be my spotty memory at work, but it's something to consider.

EDIT - having said that, let me just say however that my lv 40 so'd Warshade - once I've gotten familiar with him again - tears through +2x4 spawns as fast or faster than my IO'd lv 50 PB tackles his standard +2x1. 'Least, that's how it feels.

I rolled a PB and WS , and got tired of both MAINLY cause I didn't really understand them or the need to switch forms at the correct time etc etc . But I have Altitis , so at some point I'll roll a PB or WS so thanks for the info guys , it's got me thinking of doing one soon .

I wondered about this myself when I started my first Kheldian, and decided eventually to make one of each. I found the Tri-Form Peacebringer to be a bit easier to handle than the Tri-Form Warshade, and the Human Form Warshade better than the Human Form Peacebringer. However, that was likely because the "better" combinations in both cases were on teams, whereas the other two I mainly soloed because I had no SG on that server.

The Warshades never really hit their stride until 20. Stygian Circle made all the difference. I did enjoy the boost to my damage output in Human Form, as long as my teammates were watching my back, but I found the Black Dwarf form to be a better fighter than Human form. Although the blasts were okay, Warshade Human form lacked the heavy melee attacks of the Peacebringer. So I was using Dwarf for my semi-Scrapper form, and using Human form for sneaking around and using the utility powers.

With my Tri-Form Peacebringer, as others have said, I felt more consistent. I didn't have the damage the Warshade was capable of in Dwarf Form, but was able to make up for it by shifting to Human and using Incandescent Strike. I had to shift forms more often, but found it a lot easier going prior to 20.

My Human Form Peacebringer I don't seem to have a lot of luck with. I feel really weak, and die a lot. However, as he's the one that is levelling slowly, he's the one I have spent the least time with, so he's only level 10. I suspect it'll get better as he gets higher level, and can pick up Incandescent Strike and the multiple heals my Tri-Form uses. I am thinking of waiting until Power Customization comes around for Kheldians, and making that a new version of my main, an FF/Rad Defender. Hopefully I will be more comfortable with the character and will be able to get him to a level where he's stronger.

My Warshades I will probably bring to redside and make them Nictus's, bringing the two together by using a dual build to copy each's build over to the other. I like the way the Human Warshade plays, but he doesn't quite fit the original concept I had in mind, and I will probably make the second build a Dwarf/Human, or keep both forms with weak slotting, to try and help with some of the problems pure Human form seems to run into.

Personally, I've found the opposite problem to a lot of the other (experienced) Kheld posters here. I find the Warshade to be more intuitively obvious to grasp (how to use, when to shift, etc.) than my Peacebringer. I even found it easier to work up a build for WS than my PB ... mainly because with the Warshade, the forms a pretty distinct, meaning there's not a whole lot of overlap in capability between the forms.

Human form is more of a controller-ish and utility function, Nova is the gunship, and Dwarf is the melee/anti-mezz monster which can also "refuel" itself by siphoning green bar for self healing. There isn't a whole lot of overlap between these functions, or playstyles, which makes them each distinct and unique enough that you can easily develop a "sense" from the flow of battle what is necessary at any given time. That hasn't been the case for me with my Peacebringer, where the lack of differential in utility/capability in the attacks/powers between the three forms has actually made it harder for me to decide what to slot, why, how much and how soon. The Peacebringer human form is far more focused on straightup DAMAGE dealing with almost everything, and consequently doesn't have the wider range of control powers available to Warshades that makes their human forms distinctly unique. There are even restrictions on the human for PB attacks, such as the stomp being a ground(ed) only attack, meaning you can't use it while hovering or flying (both inherent PB powers) which seem to restrict things beyond what I'd consider absolutely necessary.

Needless to say, I had remarkably little problem levelling my WS past level 22 (Stygian Circle) as every level just seemed to be bringing greater and greater power ... all the way on up through level 50 where everything reached a unified completion. This hasn't been my experience with my PB, who lacks the very control options which allowed my WS to "deal" with such a wide variety of situations. The powers of the PB just *feel* so much more limited in scope than the WS powers, in part because the PB powers are so oriented around DAMAGE and KNOCKDOWN ... via click powers nearly to exclusion ... and almost nothing else. Contrast this with the toggles and mezz controls and PBAoE damage and built in steath and TP Foe capabilities ... and on and on and on ... of the WS, which allowed me to respond to almost any situation with the "right tool for the job at hand" and it's no wonder that I often feel like my PB is sadly lacking in capabilites beyond "mere damage" output.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...