First thing I noticed is you'll want sting of the wasp at level 1, not gamblers cut. Its still really fast, and has a much higher DPA with still great DPS. As to the main part of your post, personally I'd avoid ET like the plague on this build. For the main starting point, is the redraw with katana will be just plain annoying. This build is VERY highly designed to be in the middle of the mob, and stay there, with RTTC, and divine avalanche. So you won't be, or shouldn't be jumping out of the mob that much to use ET anyways.
Also, with CJ, you'll want to have hurdle, not swift. Hurdle + CJ gives you much better combat mobility. And indomibitle will is WAAAAAAAAYYYY too late. Its your mez protection, you need that by at the very least before the 20s. 35 is far far far too late.
Also, katana is very good on endurance. Even with manuevers/tough/weave. With end reduction in your attacks, and both quick recovery and stamina, I can't imagine you'd need conserve power, and certainly not slots in it. Same as to build up, it only needs 2 slots. 2 50 common recharge IOs, versus 3, is only about a 3-6 second difference. When its recharging every 42ish seconds depending on your bonuses, thats really not worth the extra slot IMO.
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Actually, GC is better than SotW. SotW takes up more time in your attack string, thereby reducing the overall contributive DPS of SD and GD, which are your real money makers. SotW might have better DPA, but GC allows you to have better DPS with your attack string overall.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
First thing I noticed is you'll want sting of the wasp at level 1, not gamblers cut.
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| Also, katana is very good on endurance. |
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Except that Sting of the Wasp doesn't even have better DPA going for it. The in-game data gives a huge DPA advantage to Gambler's Cut:|
Originally Posted by Umbral
Actually, GC is better than SotW. SotW takes up more time in your attack string, thereby reducing the overall contributive DPS of SD and GD, which are your real money makers. SotW might have better DPA, but GC allows you to have better DPS with your attack string overall.
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Gambler's Cut = 78.44 DPA
Sting of the Wasp = 62.03 DPA
Mind you, the in-game DPA ignores Arcanatime, so I wouldn't trust it any farther than I can throw it. The difference is less stark if you define DPA as Damage Per Arcanatime second, but still favors Gambler's Cut:
Gambler's Cut = 52.55 * 110% / ((roundup(0.67/.132)+1)*.132) = 62.560 DPA
Sting of the Wasp = 72.57 * 110% / ((roundup(1.17/.132)+1)*.132) = 60.475 DPA
My other argument for sticking with Gambler's Cut at level 1 is that it recharges much faster. Recharge is an issue on a lowbie.
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Gah. >.< Remind me not to trust what numbers I remember off the top of my head. I did my internal DPA comparison based off of GC having an Arcanatime of 1.056, not .924 (bad Umbral). I keep forgetting just how insanely fast GC is (and I remember when all of the tier 1 attacks were that fast...).|
Originally Posted by Werner
Mind you, the in-game DPA ignores Arcanatime, so I wouldn't trust it any farther than I can throw it. The difference is less stark if you define DPA as Damage Per Arcanatime second, but still favors Gambler's Cut:
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Even so, it's still all the more reason to not even bother touching SotW. GC utterly destroys it on all counts (reminds me of how I'm always telling people off of Havok Punch in favor of Charged Brawl for the exact same reasons).
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If you use all powers willy nilly and don't utilize them sure. But if you utilize the cones and aoe to the best of your ability, things die a lot more cheaply end-wise.
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Originally Posted by Umbral
Actually, GC is better than SotW. SotW takes up more time in your attack string, thereby reducing the overall contributive DPS of SD and GD, which are your real money makers. SotW might have better DPA, but GC allows you to have better DPS with your attack string overall.
Since base DPE is a standard value, the only powerset that actually is "very good on endurance" is Claws/* specifically because it is designed to cost less and recharge faster than the other sets. Kat/* is just as hard on the blue bar as BS/* and every other set out there. |
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Don't forget to do build up chain comparisons. Which will ultimately matter how much recharge your build has as well to what you can fit in those 10 seconds. Personally, i like where SoTW fits in overall as well, (hence what i'm about to say also factoring into good end use) But its more damage than GC, meaning you use it when enemies will get hurt without over or undershotting. I have DA for the really low damage power (same as GC) I dont need another tiny attack to fit in there at all (regardless of DPA). If an enemy has the health where one SoTW will kill it, but it would take 2 GC's, then you are not saving endurance by using those 2 GC where you could use just one SoTW. Plus its a fun power overall, with still really good stats.
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Well, since you want it for concept, IMO, I'd just drop an attack for the new attack; ie Lotus Drops, Flashing Steel...or maybe Build Up if you are not one ot lose any attacks.
You could also drop Stamina and get the Performance shifter proc for Quick Recovery and a Miracle or Numi proc to help offset the lose of Stamina.
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Of course, I keep forgetting that if you have redundant powers and use all of them to the point of peak end efficiency, you'll get different efficiencies.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
If you use all powers willy nilly and don't utilize them sure. But if you utilize the cones and aoe to the best of your ability, things die a lot more cheaply end-wise.
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The difference you're attempting to make isn't nearly as substantial as you're attempting to make it seem, though. BS attacks cost more per activation but Kat makes more activations per time frame so the actual difference in endurance efficiency is incredibly small. You'd get more ground with the argument bringing up Fire's higher end efficiency since it actually has a mechanism that differentiates its dam/end consumption beyond the abstract of efficiency of use.
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| Don't forget to do build up chain comparisons. Which will ultimately matter how much recharge your build has as well to what you can fit in those 10 seconds. |
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| Personally, i like where SoTW fits in overall as well, (hence what i'm about to say also factoring into good end use) But its more damage than GC, meaning you use it when enemies will get hurt without over or undershotting. I have DA for the really low damage power (same as GC) I dont need another tiny attack to fit in there at all (regardless of DPA). If an enemy has the health where one SoTW will kill it, but it would take 2 GC's, then you are not saving endurance by using those 2 GC where you could use just one SoTW. Plus its a fun power overall, with still really good stats. |
Quit trying to act as if there were some modicum of intelligence in what is obviously bad advice. SotW is, by far, the worse attack compared to GC, no matter how you try to spin it.
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Ya, I'm kinda thinking I may have to drop one of the AOE's. So, it' either Flashing Steel, Super Jump or...??? I love Build Up and Stamina way too much to drop either. Although, if someone could demonstrate the change you are referring to in a build, I'd love to see it if it works. Still open to suggestions for what to drop or for the build in general. |
Originally Posted by dougnukem
Well, since you want it for concept, IMO, I'd just drop an attack for the new attack; ie Lotus Drops, Flashing Steel...or maybe Build Up if you are not one ot lose any attacks.
You could also drop Stamina and get the Performance shifter proc for Quick Recovery and a Miracle or Numi proc to help offset the lose of Stamina. |
I'm hoping to eventually have one build with Energy Torrent for concept and the second build for regular play.
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If you get the ninja pack, then you probably wouldn't miss super jump. Personally on my Claws/WP scrapper, I don't have CJ or SJ, and they aren't missed or needed. Also manuevers really shouldn't be needed either. If you get rid of anything, I would say those three, but that is just my humble opinion. I find that the WP powers coupled with Tough/Weave and Health/Stamina (and that lovely epic Physical Perfection) works just fine defense wise.
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Originally Posted by Fantomas
Ya, I'm kinda thinking I may have to drop one of the AOE's. So, it' either Flashing Steel, Super Jump or...??? I love Build Up and Stamina way too much to drop either. Although, if someone could demonstrate the change you are referring to in a build, I'd love to see it if it works. Still open to suggestions for what to drop or for the build in general.
I'm hoping to eventually have one build with Energy Torrent for concept and the second build for regular play. |
Just an idea. I did this on the fly, so power choices may not be optimal for levels taken, and you could probably switch out some of the attacks, and I realized too late I forgot to add in energy torrent, but I am lazy, so to get that, you could probably drop hasten, since the majority of your defenses are toggles or passives, and Katana attacks generally don't have long recharge times. With something like this and basic IOs, you can get 618% on your regen and 3.91 per sec on your recovery. Once you get into sets and badges and such, you can jack that number up higher. With a liberal application of divine avalanche, and the defense/resists, you should be able to stand up to some punishment.
Anyhow, not optimized by any means, done in a rush, but it should be playable. Would just need to rearrange the powers to get energy torrent (like I said, hasten shouldn't really be missed, and travel will be a pain unless you have the ninja pack, or some sort of temp travel power).
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
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Click this DataLink to open the build!
Kat/Will Scrapper: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Katana
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Gambler's Cut -- RechRdx-I(A), Dmg-I(40), Dmg-I(40), Dmg-I(40)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(3), Heal-I(3), ResDam-I(5), ResDam-I(5), ResDam-I(7)
Level 2: Flashing Steel -- RechRdx-I(A), Dmg-I(37), Dmg-I(37), Dmg-I(39)
Level 4: Mind Over Body -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(7), ResDam-I(9), ResDam-I(9)
Level 6: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 8: Divine Avalanche -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(34), Dmg-I(34), Dmg-I(37), Dmg-I(46)
Level 10: Fast Healing -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(11), Heal-I(11)
Level 12: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(13), DefBuff-I(13), DefBuff-I(15)
Level 14: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- EndRdx-I(A), Heal-I(17), Heal-I(17), Heal-I(27)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(19), Heal-I(19)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(23), EndMod-I(23)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 26: Soaring Dragon -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27), Dmg-I(31), Dmg-I(31), Dmg-I(43)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(29), DefBuff-I(29), DefBuff-I(31)
Level 30: Kick -- KBDist-I(A)
Level 32: Golden Dragonfly -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33), Dmg-I(33), Dmg-I(33), Dmg-I(43)
Level 35: The Lotus Drops -- RechRdx-I(A), Dmg-I(36), Dmg-I(36), Dmg-I(43)
Level 38: Strength of Will -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(39), ResDam-I(39)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A), ToHit-I(42), ToHit-I(42), ToHit-I(42)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(45), Heal-I(45), EndMod-I(45), EndMod-I(46), EndMod-I(46)
Level 47: Tough -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(48), ResDam-I(48), ResDam-I(48)
Level 49: Weave -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(50), DefBuff-I(50), DefBuff-I(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
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Originally Posted by Umbral
Of course, I keep forgetting that if you have redundant powers and use all of them to the point of peak end efficiency, you'll get different efficiencies.
The difference you're attempting to make isn't nearly as substantial as you're attempting to make it seem, though. BS attacks cost more per activation but Kat makes more activations per time frame so the actual difference in endurance efficiency is incredibly small. You'd get more ground with the argument bringing up Fire's higher end efficiency since it actually has a mechanism that differentiates its dam/end consumption beyond the abstract of efficiency of use. You'd be surprised how little the build up chains actually matter since the attack strings are already based upon getting the most out of the specific attacks. It's not a PvP build either, so it's not like there is a specific need to extract as much damage from the 10 second period as possible. So you're advocating taking the the worse of two powers specifically because it deals more damage per activation but deals less damage over time (which makes even less sense because SotW is just as likely to have wasted damage as GC is not have enough)? You're acting like wasting 3 points of endurance is some kind of cardinal sin. This is a Kat/WP IO build. Endurance is one of the last things you need to worry about since you're already packing Stamina and QR, along with end redux in all of your attacks. There is no need to make choices that purposefully decrease your top end performance to allow you to have some arbitrary ability to save a couple point of endurance that were going to be wasted anyway because you're already dancing around with infinite endurance sustainability. Quit trying to act as if there were some modicum of intelligence in what is obviously bad advice. SotW is, by far, the worse attack compared to GC, no matter how you try to spin it. |
Could also simply be that I find having the same stat powers boring and like more dynamics in my attack chain. Clicking a low damage but fast power can be fun in the early levels when you don't have enough attacks, but gets very annoying personally later in the game.
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Quote:
Yea, with the MA Booster, Ninja Run plus Sprint, Hurdle, or Swift works just fine for a travel in all honesty.
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Originally Posted by Fantomas
Ya, I'm kinda thinking I may have to drop one of the AOE's. So, it' either Flashing Steel, Super Jump or...??? I love Build Up and Stamina way too much to drop either. Although, if someone could demonstrate the change you are referring to in a build, I'd love to see it if it works. Still open to suggestions for what to drop or for the build in general.
I'm hoping to eventually have one build with Energy Torrent for concept and the second build for regular play. |
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NR + hurdle is, NR + swift/sprint is only like a little over 40 mph, but NR + hurdle is over 60MPH with a 50 common IO in hurdle, big difference.
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Originally Posted by dougnukem
Yea, with the MA Booster, Ninja Run plus Sprint, Hurdle, or Swift works just fine for a travel in all honesty.
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Then don't bring up poor design decisions that exist only to assuage your personal distaste for similar attacks as if they were, somehow, optimal choices. I honestly don't give a damn if you prefer SotW over GC. It doesn't makes a difference to me. I take offense at your inaccurate and false attempts to make it seem like SotW is actually a numerically superior choice.
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Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Could also simply be that I find having the same stat powers boring and like more dynamics in my attack chain. Clicking a low damage but fast power can be fun in the early levels when you don't have enough attacks, but gets very annoying personally later in the game.
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I take offense at two things. One, that you make it seem like the difference is SO huge that GC trumps SOTW so unfavorably. And two, having a faster lower damaging attack having a higher DPA that its higher damage slower recharging brother-power. It does not follow the standardized rules. While being some-what unique in itself, good for GC, but very confusing.|
Originally Posted by Umbral
Then don't bring up poor design decisions that exist only to assuage your personal distaste for similar attacks as if they were, somehow, optimal choices. I honestly don't give a damn if you prefer SotW over GC. It doesn't makes a difference to me. I take offense at your inaccurate and false attempts to make it seem like SotW is actually a numerically superior choice.
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On the endurance question, using GC twice versus SoTW once, no its not going to impact much, but the situation is that you use GC multiple upon multiple times, they add up. Never said that a kat/wp would EVER have end probelms, was referring to katana in general. I just wish that Divine Avalanche had GC's animation and activation time
One can dream eh?
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Quote:
Well, considering that GC has a faster cycle time, better DPA (which is the only real valid metric of comparison because endurance costs are normalized by damage, which allows you to gauge EPS based on DPA), and better contribution from procs (thanks to animating faster), I would say that GC does trump SotW rather soundly. There isn't any sensible, numeric reason to take SotW over GC.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
I take offense at two things. One, that you make it seem like the difference is SO huge that GC trumps SOTW so unfavorably.
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| And two, having a faster lower damaging attack having a higher DPA that its higher damage slower recharging brother-power. It does not follow the standardized rules. While being some-what unique in itself, good for GC, but very confusing. |
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| On the endurance question, using GC twice versus SoTW once, no its not going to impact much, but the situation is that you use GC multiple upon multiple times, they add up. |
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| Never said that a kat/wp would EVER have end probelms, was referring to katana in general. |
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I just wish that Divine Avalanche had GC's animation and activation time One can dream eh?
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That's what divine avalanche is there for my good man.| Except that, for the exact same number of situations, SotW will waste endurance by requiring a second hit in the exact manner you describe GC requiring a second hit. GC is penalized no more than SotW, so you're bringing up a completely moot point and acting if it is a point in SotW's favor because you don't realize that the exact opposite is just as true. |
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| Which, as I've said, is just as untrue because DPE is a standardized value. The only differences in DPS are generate similar differences in EPS. The only sets that are actually more end efficient are Claws (because that's Claws' secondary effect) and Fire (because the DoT is free damage). Saying that Kat, in general, has fewer end woes than other sets is simply ignorant, especially since, at the top end, it actually costs more because it has a greater baseline DPS than most other sets. |
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I'm a total loss on this toon. My build is a bit of a wreck and I could really use some input. When I started him, I wasn't aware that I should be focusing on typed def vs. positional.
I really want to add Energy Torrent for conept reasons without sacrificing his playability. I usually team or solo PVE only and I don't have a ton of inf. I'm currently sitting on about 150 million.
I never use Conserve Power or Maneuvers so those two can be dropped...but I can't decide what else I can safely drop. Super Jump seems to be the obvious choice but I'd like to leave that in as well for concept reasons. Any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated!
Here's the current build:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Severend Current 1: Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Katana
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Gambler's Cut -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(3), Heal-I(9), ResDam-I(39), ResDam-I(39), ResDam-I(39)
Level 2: Flashing Steel -- Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(7), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(17), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(17), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(19)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(5), Heal-I(7)
Level 6: Mind Over Body -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(11), ResDam-I(19), ResDam-I(21)
Level 8: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 10: Divine Avalanche -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(13), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- EndRdx-I(A), Heal-I(25), Heal-I(25), Heal-I(27)
Level 18: The Lotus Drops -- C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(27), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(29), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(29), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(31), EndMod-I(33)
Level 22: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 24: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(46), Heal-I(50)
Level 26: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(34), EndMod-I(34)
Level 28: Soaring Dragon -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(36), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Mako-Dam%(37)
Level 30: Heightened Senses -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(37), DefBuff-I(42), DefBuff-I(46)
Level 32: Golden Dragonfly -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(40), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(40), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), Sciroc-Dam%(42)
Level 35: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Tough -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(42), ResDam-I(43), ResDam-I(43), ResDam-I(43)
Level 44: Weave -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(45), DefBuff-I(45), DefBuff-I(45), DefBuff-I(46)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(48), DefBuff-I(48), DefBuff-I(48)
Level 49: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit