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If you're looking for the values that each "combo" has assigned to it, check out City of Data. You'll most likely need to learn to read the entries, but, once you figure out how to do that, it's incredibly useful. To determine the values of each combo, you simply go to the power entry of the final power of a combo and check the entry until you find a value with "if Dual Blade XXXXXX Mode 2". The value that this phrase is after is part of that combo.|
Originally Posted by Allstar_Guard
I am leveling a DB/WP Scrapper atm, first DB and the attack Chains is something I'm really wanting to get a look at before I go much further, so I know which attacks to pick up. Is there some where that shows the numbers for the Empower,Weaken, Sweep and atack Vitals combo's?
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For example, Typhoon's Edge, the end power of both the Weaken and Sweep combo (for Scrappers, Tankers, and Brutes; the combos are different for Stalkers). Check out the power entry and, after that barrage of mode resets (which are present in all DB powers because of a necessity in how the combo system works), you'll see the effects of the two combos:
Defense -0.075 for 20s If Dual Blade Debuff Mode 2
ToHit -7.5% for 20s If Dual Blade Debuff Mode 2
35.66 Lethal damage If Dual Blade AoE Mode 2
+0.67 Knockback If Dual Blade AoE Mode 2
Dual Blade Debuff is the mechanical name for the Weaken combo, and Dual Blade AoE is the mechanical name for the Sweep combo. The number after is simply the number of powers in the combo, you've already used (1 would be having already used the first power, 2 would be already having used the second).
In general, consensus has arrived at the conclusion that the only combos worth doing are the Sweep and Attack Vitals combos. Empower and Weaken just aren't worth it either because of the low damage of the powers within the combo itself or the pitiful contributive value of combo itself.
To my understanding the weaken and empower combos are better for the early lvls as they provide some much needed debuffing.
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Well, first off, Empower doesn't debuff anything. All it does is increase the buff value of Blinding feint by a third at the cost of requiring Nimble Slash (a bad attack). In a low level build, since both Empower and Weaken require Nimble Slash, it might work but, once you get to the point in which you're using Sweep and Attack Vitals, Nimble Slash becomes a complete waste.
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Originally Posted by cp2_4eva
To my understanding the weaken and empower combos are better for the early lvls as they provide some much needed debuffing.
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In my opinion, that is correct. Weaken is extremely useful at lower levels, making it easier to hit foes thanks to the AoE def debuff and giving you a slight boost in survivability thanks to the -tohit. Empower is less useful but still handy due to the increased +tohit it gives over the default BF.| To my understanding the weaken and empower combos are better for the early lvls as they provide some much needed debuffing. |
And lets face it, it's not like you've got much else to do with your attacks so you might as well make the most of them.
At higher levels, once you open Attack Vitals and, even later, Sweep they become a lot less useful. Chaining Attack Vitals does more damage than chaining Empower and Sweep is better mitigation than Weaken. What I recommend doing is taking Nimble Slash at character creation and skipping (if you have to) Power Slice. Then respec into out of NS and into Power Slice around 32 or whenever you decide to take take 1kCuts.
I just got my db/wp scrapper to 32 the other night and have been utilizing the following:
BF, Attack Vitals Combo, Sweep Combo
It really is nice for AoE, and 1KCuts is a perfect attack for a huge golden robot named Gilded Guillotine.
However, I've also been wondering if it's worth it.
Specifically, I'm wondering if I'd be better of cranking up my recharge so that my single target chain is nothing but BF, Attack Vitals and my AoE chain is nothing but BF, Attack Vitals, 1kCuts.
To figure that out, I'm going to have to do the following:
Determine average damage output of BF, AV, Swe, repeat including damage from the combos firing off.
Determine average damage output of BF, AV, 1KC, repeat including damage from combo firing
Finally, check to see if using Only BF, AV, repeat beats both of the above for AoE damage output and live with a scrapper that only uses 4 attacks.
Working that up now.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Determine average damage output of BF, AV, Swe, repeat including damage from the combos firing off.
Determine average damage output of BF, AV, 1KC, repeat including damage from combo firing Finally, check to see if using Only BF, AV, repeat beats both of the above for AoE damage output and live with a scrapper that only uses 4 attacks. |
I am extremely interested in seeing your results. My intuition is that BF -> Sweep -> Sweeping Strike is the best AoE, but I honestly have no way or inclination to back it up with proof.
Quick answer in a best case scenario hitting max targets for each AoE:
When cruising for AoE damage output, you're better off with BF/AttVit/1KC than you are with BF/AttVit/Sweep
Going with some arbitrary averages on numbers of enemies hit, say... 4 for SS, 6 for 1KC and 7 for TE, it's still true but by a smaller gap.
I'll look later to see if there's a better single target attack chain than BF/AttVit, but I seriously doubt it.
Checking BF/Sweep/SS and BF/Sweep now...
EDIT: As far as I can tell, when hitting the max targets for each AoE, BF/AttVit/1KCuts is the best for dishing out AoE. Typhoon's edge sucks on DPA.
Some points: I am dealing with max# targets hit.
I want to check damage numbers in game. CoD is rather out of date these days and may not be accurate.
EDIT2: Oops, it appears, at least going off of CoD, that the extra damage from combos IS affected by buffs, but not criticals. I'll have to figure that in, but I doubt anything will change. Also means that brute db is probably greater than scrapper db.
Be well, people of CoH.
I've experimented quite a bit during the AE defendable objects craze, and BF -> TE -> 1KC -> TE -> SS was the best AoE chain for me. I suspect it'd be the best during normal gameplay as well, getting 7 or more targets in the 7" 90° cone without losing a millisecond for 1KC to be competitive with TE is pretty much impossible there, and SS being capped at 5 is always below TE.
That most assuredly beats the ones I've done so far, but I'm showing you need at least 313% recharge in TE to do that chain, making it as near impossible to do as the mythical followup, slash, focus, repeat chain.
Be well, people of CoH.
The best single target attack chain seems to be BF - AS - SS - AS to me. However, the +recharge needed is hard to get and currently I don't see a way to do it without sacrificing AoE and/or defense.
Btw, even with BF-AS-SS-AS fully slotted (including both -res procs) the dps wasn't enough to bring a monster down (tried it on Eochai in PI during the Halloween event... with a Shivan it was easy).
I'm using the BF - Attack Vitals combo on my DB/WP and that's enough to solo (most) AVs and Pylons (my Pylon time is slightly over 10 minutes, didn't build her for max damage, though).
Can't really say much about AoE chains, except give anecdotal input.
I'm typically using BF - SS - Sweep (my SS is slotted with the -res proc), which seems to be very good. Plus the AoE knockdown in Sweep adds some mitigation that's sometimes useful (i.e. double RWZ challenge with multiple AM buffs on the bosses).
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That "without sacrificing defense" part is important, because most things except AV/GM wont live long. In a build inspired by shred monkey, my db/sr has 206.25 global recharge that uses BF - SS - AS - [repeat]. With inspirations filling wholes in defense only, I can make dents in GM that dont do well to leathal dam like Stratophoria/Thorn, but cant sustain damage due to end. The "dent" did last a tick of healing, but I'm pretty sure without at least the 2x -dam stacking its futile. I should mention BF has the gausian proc and heca proc, AB has achille's heel, and SS has Fury of Gladiator (that was expensive), assult, and set-damage of 20.5%.|
Originally Posted by Myriad
The best single target attack chain seems to be BF - AS - SS - AS to me. However, the +recharge needed is hard to get and currently I don't see a way to do it without sacrificing AoE and/or defense.
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(Wish1: enough recharge to perma conserve power...
; wish2: BaB takes care of redraw for fireball to be used in Billz calculatoins)Correction: under "perfect conditions" (no misses and all -dam procs firing, Gaus helpful but not required), I got a Thorn dented that healed in 1.3 (?) ticks of GM regen. I would like to see a pupled out db/elec try to see its max DoT with dam aura.
Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
I am leveling a DB/WP Scrapper atm, first DB and the attack Chains is something I'm really wanting to get a look at before I go much further, so I know which attacks to pick up. Is there some where that shows the numbers for the Empower,Weaken, Sweep and atack Vitals combo's?