Help me live in teams? (Spine/WP)


BrandX

 

Posted

Having a bit of trouble with my Spine/WP (currently 26) and could use advice; Solo I rip things up great. In larger teams though, I faceplant A LOT. I have a sneaking suspicion that the cause is RttC; my theory is that without it, I just don't have the regen or defenses to hang, but with it I pull extra aggro that overcomes my regen. I have the entire secondary to this point, Swift, Health, no Stamina yet; Kick but no Tough yet; RTTC has 3 Heal, resist toggle is is 1 end,1 res; the level 1 auto is 1 heal as is quick heal.
Is there any technique I can use to help my survivability in bigger teams, change in slotting, or something that I should make sure to pick up asap? Or is it just something I should learn to live with?


A no attack "Group-Friendly" Defender is like a "Team Friendly" basketball player who won't dribble, run, or shoot, under any circumstances. "I'm a PASSER."

 

Posted

First, let me observe that if Willpower has one weakness, it's burst damage, which is to say, a large sum of damage dealt to you on an alpha strike. By the time you begin to drop the more dangerous foes and thin out the incoming damage, it's too late; your regen gets smaller as each foe drops, and it's not enough to bring you back from the brink. Only enough to delay the inevitable, because you took too much damage in the first few seconds of battle.

Now, other sets which rely on defense can often come through these alpha stikes unscathed, and sets with self-heals can replenish their health with a "burst" heal that can offset the burst damage taken.

But Willpower is vulnerable to burst damage, and to some extent you'll have to live with that.

However, there are some things to look into which may help.

1) Strength of Will: your Tier 9 does not have a catastrophic crash like some others. Nor is it a true godmode, but if you use it in anticipation of burst damage (i.e. before you take it, not afterward), it can and usually will reduce that burst damage to the point where your regen tank will hold and not be broken during the battle. If you plan on taking this at 32, be sure to take Stamina between now and then; with both Stamina and QR, the endurance crash should not be an issue, even if it happens in the thick of battle.

2) Slot up HPT for heal (which will give you maxHP) and then for dmg resistance. Also Tough and Weave will help. Another reason to go ahead and get Stamina.

3) Defense from other sources: Willpower gives you decent exotic defenses; you can dovetail this with smashing/lethal defense from IO sets. There are a lot of such bonuses to be had; look to sets like Reactive Armor, Kinetic Combat, and Obliteration. And there are others, too--find them. If those I mentioned are too expensive for you right now, look instead at Titanium Coating, Smashing Haymaker, and Multi-Strike. Then, having added some S/L defense, boost all your typed defenses with Combat Jumping, the Steadfast Protection unique, and maybe even Maneuvers. Try to get all your typed defenses to at least 25%, preferably higher. Defense is the best way to deal with burst damage; it's damage teflon. Most of the bigrednumbers just don't happen in the first place.

4) Tactics. Burst damage is your biggest vulnerability, so try to space out the incoming damage a bit. Throw spines, then pop behind a column, stalagmite, corner, into a cubicle, or whatever. Stuff will come running at you, and then by the time they have a clear shot, they're already fueling your regen. This way, the whole group won't spike you at once.

5) Inspiration use. On my WP toons, I like green and purple inspirations. I push myself suicidally and always take on way more than I should, but it's chilly cause I know how to rake the skittles. You get hurt, you go right ahead and pop a green AND A PURPLE. See? Not just a green, but a green AND A PURPLE. This works great on WP. It gives your native regen and damres a lot more leeway to keep you alive. If you don't have a purple, two oranges yield a similar effect. Burn reds to kill stuff faster. Combine blues, breakfrees, wakies and yellows to make stuff you can actually use (might wanna keep a couple yellows depending on the enemy faction). And never, ever, EVER faceplant with a full tray.

Hope those tips help.


 

Posted

Yep, quite a bit, thanks.
Any tips when it's not alpha damage, but more that when I do run in, I pull enough aggro that the beta damage overwhelms me?
I often end up in teams with a lot of regen and SR scrappers and no tanker for whatever reason, and as such I tend to be the only taunt aura in the place, even if i'm not taking alpha. One of the coalition types who tosses together a lot of teams I can get in just happens to have that kind of team composition when they're on, it seems like.


A no attack "Group-Friendly" Defender is like a "Team Friendly" basketball player who won't dribble, run, or shoot, under any circumstances. "I'm a PASSER."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticeZero View Post
I have the entire secondary to this point, Swift, Health, no Stamina yet; Kick but no Tough yet; RTTC has 3 Heal, resist toggle is is 1 end,1 res; the level 1 auto is 1 heal as is quick heal.
Is there any technique I can use to help my survivability in bigger teams, change in slotting, or something that I should make sure to pick up asap? Or is it just something I should learn to live with?
Spine/WP is nigh godly, but it does take a while before it blooms. It's pretty slot hungry early on, so until you get to the mid 30s, you just won't have enough slots to get both your damage *and* your survivability up. Also, WP as a secondary is a bit slower to bloom, because it gets it's key powers much later than a tank would having it as a primary.

The biggest thing I see that you have underslotted is Mind Over Body. This is your single most important power to mitigate incoming damage early on. I would definitely put 2 more slots into it ASAP (like, if you plan on respecing before 27, then during the respec. If not, put your 27 slots into it as soon as you get them). Putting two more resists into it will significantly decrease the amount of damage that comes at you.

Your next step would be to put at least 2 more slots into HPT, for heal enhancements. +HP in general acts as a pseudo +res buff, but with WP it not only has that effect, but it also increases the amount of HP you heal back per regen tick directly, further increasing your survivability.

At 28 you should should get Heightened Senses. This will fill the hole you have against non-S/L damage types. But it will even help against S/L occasionally, because of the way defense works. If an incoming attack has both a smashing or lethal component *and* a fire/cold/energy/neg energy component, it'll check against your defense first, meaning you may avoid the attack completely.

Once you can spare a couple more slots, put 1-2 more into HPT for resistances. HPT doesn't give a huge amount of resistance, but it does give some to non-s/l types, so those attacks that do get through HS will be reduced a little bit, giving you more time to regen back that damage.

Strength of Will is a great tool to mitigate alphas, but don't expect it to save you once the damage has come in. As said earlier, it is best used preemptively.

As far as Spines goes, it does tend to be a little light on hard mitigation tools, opting instead to kill faster with its AoEs and slow down tougher enemies who live through the initial onslaught. That said, make liberal use of Ripper. It's chance to knockdown, in a smallish melee cone, no less, is pretty valuable. Unfortunately there is no way to increase that chance of it actually knocking foes down, but as intermittent mitigation, it can really make a difference in the long run.

Another thing a lot of people overlook is the fact that Impale has an immob built in. If you get in over your head, use Impale to stop an LT from following you as you run. Small help, but can make the difference between getting away in time and dieing as you run.

Beyond that, just focus on killing as fast as you can. That's what Spines are good for, so take advantage of it!

~WP


Just my opinion, feel free to disregard...

 

Posted

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Code Sanguine: Level 27 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Spines
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Lunge Acc(A), EndRdx(3), RechRdx(5), Dmg(7), Dmg(15), Dmg(25)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance Heal(A)
Level 2: Spine Burst Acc(A), RechRdx(3), RechRdx(5), Dmg(7), Dmg(11), Dmg(23)
Level 4: Fast Healing Heal(A)
Level 6: Swift Run(A)
Level 8: Impale Acc(A), EndRdx(9), RechRdx(9), Dmg(11), Dmg(15), Dmg(23)
Level 10: Indomitable Will EndRdx(A)
Level 12: Build Up RechRdx(A), RechRdx(13), RechRdx(13)
Level 14: Mind Over Body EndRdx(A), ResDam(25)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge Heal(A), Heal(17), Heal(17)
Level 18: Quills Acc(A), Dmg(19), Dmg(19), Dmg(21)
Level 20: Quick Recovery EndMod(A), EndMod(21)
Level 22: Health RgnTis-Regen+(A)
Level 24: Kick Empty(A)
Level 26: Ripper Acc(A)
Level 28: [Empty]
Level 30: [Empty]
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Run(A)
Level 2: Rest RechRdx(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit



| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1021;467;934;HEX;|
|78DAA592CB4EDB40148667B08313622738211010156CD978C D4502899B8444A4701|
|1B4A56D64C21046B2C691ED40E98A07E01510B46A1F02F5E1 DC733C2716446C5047|
|F2F7CFFC3E3779DCFABE6D3376B7C178652BF0E3B873D48DF C7E5F44C5D620F1131|
|92A672BBC108B47BEEA0DA4121663AC318CE9B44420847730 904110CFE5EEB6B814|
|2A16DE29D8FDF04644EE9EBA1291508937DCD8ED300CBC5D9 92811C70E1D7A57895|
|4BDB23E057874B3FD9EBA96B13C97814C6E6B3B7DD9F53603 FF87E8B4FC3811D16D|
|13465A82E71167CB565AC8C434D898A5D574B58E1B5A2BA44 DD2138CE3592E6313D|
|A7BB2C8827A7C58CF7DBBDE04E934E947C835A89E41F50AE0 15C82BD4B5F70B3C8B|
|7A58D4A3483317DDD7B52B233D3E415C89EA9528E7276859D 71B2B53BE3DA2A710E|
|3E83CEE505EB3A6F5339CAB9C67F9559A7B72447F438CAB7B 182ECD5C335EEB14E9|
|19C4D6A9577D9CDE915AF0AE41F337D661F321BBAE195D9AC DA4B0D81F7066C999A|
|566E97BD6BC99FF152CCB64FB2F1DBA87B699DF35E3F49D16 CCFC9FF8AFF56C0FFB|
|950EF1131E23DA8813C417C457C437848F38477411E9DF3CB BBA8C03AD2056116B8|
|87B08E2165E7919C06DDC39880AA28A9844D411D38839C403 22FD075C23E0EE|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|


A no attack "Group-Friendly" Defender is like a "Team Friendly" basketball player who won't dribble, run, or shoot, under any circumstances. "I'm a PASSER."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticeZero View Post
Yep, quite a bit, thanks.
Any tips when it's not alpha damage, but more that when I do run in, I pull enough aggro that the beta damage overwhelms me?
I often end up in teams with a lot of regen and SR scrappers and no tanker for whatever reason, and as such I tend to be the only taunt aura in the place, even if i'm not taking alpha. One of the coalition types who tosses together a lot of teams I can get in just happens to have that kind of team composition when they're on, it seems like.
I think you answered your own question.
Turn off the damage aura when you are on a team that doesn't have a Tanker with Taunt.
That damage aura has a good slow in it, so it might be valuable to turn it on once the team whittles down the mob to a solo boss.

If you start getting hurt too much, fall back aka run a bit. This does three things; 1) strings out the enemy, 2) forces the enemy to use ranged attacks which you generally should have a higher def/res against, 3) give you time to heal.

I vary my play style depending on how the other players on the team are operating. If you fall, hang back in the next fight and see what's going on.
I'm not saying not to fight, but hang back with the squishes and protect them and/or don't be the first character rushing in. See what the other players are doing and then operate in a fashion that will help to augment the team as a whole.

Scrappers are fringe fighters, so don't dive into a pile - skirt the edge and pick of stragglers instead.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic View Post
Scrappers are fringe fighters, so don't dive into a pile - skirt the edge and pick of stragglers instead.
We're fringe fighters? Don't dive into the pile? I thought pile diving was what we were known for!

But OK, yeah, if pile diving is getting you killed, better to hold off until your defenses come together more.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic View Post
I think you answered your own question.
Turn off the damage aura when you are on a team that doesn't have a Tanker with Taunt. stragglers instead.
So are you saying I should turn off Rise to the Challenge in that sort of teams, too?


A no attack "Group-Friendly" Defender is like a "Team Friendly" basketball player who won't dribble, run, or shoot, under any circumstances. "I'm a PASSER."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticeZero View Post
So are you saying I should turn off Rise to the Challenge in that sort of teams, too?
Try it without Quills first. I assumed that was what you were talking about when you said you were pulling too much agro.
If Rise to the Challenge is the only agro field that you are generating, then try skirting the edges instead of diving in and see what kind of result you have with that. Remember the first opponent you engage in melee with with Rise to the Challenge on is the one that gives you the biggest bonuses.

And, um yeah, some scrappers do just dive strait into the pile -> really a job for Tankers - but then many Tankers don't have Taunt, so go figure.

My first 50 was/is a Katana/Regen Scrapper and I was very much a fringe/tactics fighter. That character was a stalker before there were stalkers. I was always intentionally very sneaky. Lured off those that I could and trimmed my way into the masses by "peeling the apple".

I have several spines/x characters. Quills gets me into more trouble than anything else, so if you have that - try turning it off.

Also, looking at your build, Quills only does minor damage. I think you would be better off replacing one if not two of those Dam's with Slow's - aka snares. Also, I would put Slow's in some of your other attack powers. By not slotting up the Slow potential of your powers you are ignoring the SFX of your power set. That is to say, it is the equivalent of not slotting up def-debuffs or to-hit debuffs. Slowing an opponent or opponents down mean that they can attack less often and regen less often. That extra time can give you a chance to heal while also allowing you time take them out before they can recover.


 

Posted

My simple but humble advice, use inspirations liberally.

Oranges and Purples will skyrocket your survivability on teams and will make it so you have no more problems. Leveling both of my /WP toons, I always stayed stocked with purples and greens for when things looked bad, and I barely died.


@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.

 

Posted

Yeah, I turned off quills, but I still faceplanted a lot. Go figure. Slow enhancers only increase movement slow, not attack speed debuff, so I wasn't slotting for it.


A no attack "Group-Friendly" Defender is like a "Team Friendly" basketball player who won't dribble, run, or shoot, under any circumstances. "I'm a PASSER."

 

Posted

It gets better once you have tough/weave.
Burst still hurts but between insps and SoW you should be safe.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticeZero View Post
Yeah, I turned off quills, but I still faceplanted a lot. Go figure. Slow enhancers only increase movement slow, not attack speed debuff, so I wasn't slotting for it.
Yeah, I always forget that the slow tends to be for just moment in some sets. Some sets it does affect recharge rate.

It looks like from your character's build that you haven't slotted up your def or res much. So I'd switch around stuff for that. I tend to try to slot up equally between Primary and Secondary so that I have a balance between attack and defense. Watch carefully what powers give you def/res bonuses vs what damage types. You may very well be over looking some defense/res powers + slotting that could keep your character on its feet.

It appears that your character is built for burst damage.

I agree with _Mojo_. I often take it for granted that players eat their candy. I know that I do. I don't tend to use the orange and purples for scrappers, but I can see how they could be very useful on a build that has slotted up def/res more than you have yours set up currently. I'd go with greens and learn to run a lot more.

Learning when to fall back is critical to survival as far as I'm concerned. So maybe a bit more practice on figuring out when to run would help.
Start by running before you think you need to (maybe half health). Enemies are sure to follow. Then you can stop and determine if you can handle the group that is still with you or not - take a shot, and fall back again.
If you are getting too many chasing you then you are in-too deep/agro-ing too many when you engage. So stay back a bit further on the next group and let the others rush in. Attack, fall back, and re-engage the enemies that follow.
Watch out for the agro radius that you are generating when you are moving into combat.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic View Post
Turn off the damage aura when you are on a team that doesn't have a Tanker with Taunt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic View Post
try skirting the edges instead of diving in
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic View Post
And, um yeah, some scrappers do just dive strait into the pile -> really a job for Tankers
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic View Post
I'd... learn to run a lot more. Learning when to fall back is critical to survival
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic View Post
If you are getting too many chasing you then you are in-too deep/agro-ing too many when you engage. So stay back a bit further on the next group and let the others rush in.
This is all reasonable advice. These are all skills that you should develop, tactics you should consider. These may solve your survivability problem.

HOWEVER...

You're a scrapper. You're an AoE scrapper. You're an AoE scrapper with a taunt aura and a regeneration rate that is significantly buffed by being surrounted. You eventually SHOULD be smack dab in the middle of the spawn, Quills pounding away, spamming your attacks, jumping out briefly for Throw Spines, and then diving right back in. Turning off Quills, skirting the edges and running are a SERIOUS waste of your damage-dealing capabilities, even if you find them necessary for you at the moment.

So you're looking to boost your survivability from here on in. You haven't really done anything wrong - low level scrappers usually focus on attacks first, because at a low level, the best defense is a good offense. And don't delay Throw Spines (it's too amazing), and do slot it. But other than that, it's time to start cranking your survivability. I think I'd take Tough at 28, Weave at 30, Throw Spines at 32, and Heightened Senses at 35.

All those toggles are going to cause an endurance problem if you don't have one already. You could take Stamina at 28, then resume with the powers it would power. What I would do instead is frankenslot the attacks with significant endurance reduction.

Here's an example of what I might do to extend your build up through level 37 with no respec. It's not enough to turn you into a survivability powerhouse by that level, but you should see steady improvement. I don't know if this is the best approach, but it should be decent. The frankenslotted IOs are just an example. Don't specifically go after these IOs at that level, or even target the same enhancement percentages. Buy what's available, at the levels that are available, and just focus on what you need - good endurance reduction, good damage, decent accuracy and decent recharge.

Let's see, as for differences with what others have suggested... W Peace said to take Heightened Senses at 28. That's certainly viable as well. I concentrated on your strength (smashing/lethal resistance) and on getting to Weave ASAP. Nothing wrong with instead filling in your weakness. No big deal either way there. A couple people talk about slotting High Pain Tolerance for damage resistance. Also a good idea, and in this case, I just hadn't gotten to it on my level 37 example. In this case, again I was concentrating on your strength rather than filling in your weakness. If you'd rather fill in your weakness first, then probably slot High Pain Tolerance before Tough.

And yes, as others say, take your inspirations. I recommend purples as your inspiration of choice, followed by oranges, followed by greens. I'm not saying don't take a green if you're about to die. I'm just saying that if you'd taken a purple, you wouldn't be about to die. But really, if the team is moving quickly, chug what drops as it drops, and just hang onto a few purples, oranges and greens for when things go south, or even better, for when you anticipate things going south.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Code Sanguine: Level 37 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Spines
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lunge -- S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx:30(3), S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg:30(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:30(15), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:30(25)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Heal(A), Heal(29), Heal(31)
Level 2: Spine Burst -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:30(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(3), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:25(5), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:30(7), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg:30(11), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg:30(23)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Heal(A)
Level 6: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 8: Impale -- Mael'Fry-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(A), T'pst-Dmg/EndRdx:30(9), Ruin-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:30(9), Ruin-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(11), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:30(15), Mael'Fry-Dmg/EndRdx:30(23)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx(A)
Level 12: Build Up -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(13), RechRdx(13)
Level 14: Mind Over Body -- EndRdx(A), ResDam(25), ResDam(27), ResDam(27)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Heal(A), Heal(17), Heal(17)
Level 18: Quills -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:30(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:30(19), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx:30(19), Dmg(21)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- EndMod(A), EndMod(21), EndMod(31)
Level 22: Health -- RgnTis-Regen+:30(A)
Level 24: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Ripper -- Acc(A)
Level 28: Tough -- EndRdx(A), ResDam(29), ResDam(34), ResDam(37)
Level 30: Weave -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(31), DefBuff(36), DefBuff(36)
Level 32: Throw Spines -- Det'tn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:35(A), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rng:35(33), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:35(33), AirB'st-Dmg/Rchg:35(33), AirB'st-Dmg/EndRdx:35(34), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg:35(34)
Level 35: Heightened Senses -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(36), DefBuff(37), DefBuff(37)
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit

Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1021;467;934;HEX;|
|78DAA592CB4EDB40148667B08313622738211010156CD978CD4502899B8444A4701|
|1B4A56D64C21046B2C691ED40E98A07E01510B46A1F02F5E1DC733C2716446C5047|
|F2F7CFFC3E3779DCFABE6D3376B7C178652BF0E3B873D48DFC7E5F44C5D620F1131|
|92A672BBC108B47BEEA0DA4121663AC318CE9B44420847730904110CFE5EEB6B814|
|2A16DE29D8FDF04644EE9EBA1291508937DCD8ED300CBC5D992811C70E1D7A57895|
|4BDB23E057874B3FD9EBA96B13C97814C6E6B3B7DD9F53603FF87E8B4FC3811D16D|
|13465A82E71167CB565AC8C434D898A5D574B58E1B5A2BA44DD2138CE3592E6313D|
|A7BB2C8827A7C58CF7DBBDE04E934E947C835A89E41F50AE015C82BD4B5F70B3C8B|
|7A58D4A3483317DDD7B52B233D3E415C89EA9528E7276859D71B2B53BE3DA2A710E|
|3E83CEE505EB3A6F5339CAB9C67F9559A7B72447F438CAB7B182ECD5C335EEB14E9|
|19C4D6A9577D9CDE915AF0AE41F337D661F321BBAE195D9ACDA4B0D81F7066C999A|
|566E97BD6BC99FF152CCB64FB2F1DBA87B699DF35E3F49D16CCFC9FF8AFF56C0FFB|
|950EF1131E23DA8813C417C457C437848F38477411E9DF3CBBBA8C03AD2056116B8|
|87B08E2165E7919C06DDC39880AA28A9844D411D38839C40322FD075C23E0EE|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
This is all reasonable advice. These are all skills that you should develop, tactics you should consider. These may solve your survivability problem.

HOWEVER...

You're a scrapper. You're an AoE scrapper. You're an AoE scrapper with a taunt aura and a regeneration rate that is significantly buffed by being surrounted. You eventually SHOULD be smack dab in the middle of the spawn, Quills pounding away, spamming your attacks, jumping out briefly for Throw Spines, and then diving right back in. Turning off Quills, skirting the edges and running are a SERIOUS waste of your damage-dealing capabilities, even if you find them necessary for you at the moment.
Thanks.

I would say the same thing to a blaster in regards to AoE.
If you can't take the agro, don't AoE.
If you are in a position where you can go for it and you have some cover, then AoE away.

The goal, I think, was survival.
I agree with your points on dealing damage.


 

Posted

Not sure what you plan on taking with your epic pool picks but if you take body mastery try to lead off with energy torrent. The knockdown from this will prevent an alpha strike and help your survivability a ton.


 

Posted

I was actually looking at device. My other 50 scrap has body mastery, and Caltrops seems like it would be a good tool to bunch up enemies with, among others (by stringing them along and letting th caltrops delay the early arrivals)


A no attack "Group-Friendly" Defender is like a "Team Friendly" basketball player who won't dribble, run, or shoot, under any circumstances. "I'm a PASSER."

 

Posted

I think a better way to get them close together would be to herd them behind a corner/wall


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
We're fringe fighters? Don't dive into the pile? I thought pile diving was what we were known for!

But OK, yeah, if pile diving is getting you killed, better to hold off until your defenses come together more.
At level 20... fighting on large teams... yeah... scrappers are fringe fighters. A katana (or broadsword) scrapper might be able to stand longer then most with Divine avalanche (or parry) assuming you're using it to it's full potential... but yeah... scrappers don't pile dive at level 20.. in fact, tanks don't really pile dive at that level yet either.

I'd say the best advice I can give for that level on teams is to pay attention to your teamates... don't kill the defender's anchor, attack fringe guys that are chasing down the squishies (because the squishies may be keeping you alive), let the tank lead.. you may even need to split spawns using pulling techniques and various control powers (not you, the controllers).

It's actually a fun way to play the game... a lot of MMORPGs become more difficult, requiring more teamwork and strategy like this at high levels, CoH is the opposite... as players level, they can become more reckless and ingore strategy. Unfortunately the majority of players in CoH will quit a team at any level that can't just blindly wade into any spawn it faces. Some even quit a team because it's not moving through the spawns fast enough. But that's CoH... it's the niche they've cornered in the MORPG market. I don't see it changing. Best solution I can offer is to find reagular teams who are willing to play a careful controlled game (and AE missions do offer that level of challenge for any team at high levels if you want). OR do like a lot of people do and sidekick up to a higher level team and just ride their coat tails until you're one of the high level toons.


Anyway, i'm getting off topic. As you level up... look for ways to increase your defenses. Weave, combat jumping, and maneuvers are options... I like adding IOs with typed defenses to willpower because it synergizes well with the +defense power in your secondary. And one thing you can be happy about, being a scrapper.. you can solo fast at any level if you can't find a team to your liking.


I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.

 

Posted

One other thing I noticed on my Spines/WP. Caltrops is golden, and makes a better "o fhit" button than SoW does. Caltrops will keep the mobs distracted; they will stop attacking momentarily while they slowly try to run, then turn again while Quills pulses and it is good for reducing incoming damage.

I slotted procs for -recharge. One in Quills, one in Caltrops (Pacing of the Turtles) and one in RttC (Dark Watcher's Despair). These seem to help, especially since they add up and stack, and add the functional equivalent of defense: you get hit less often.

As Spines, you are going to have a lot of aggro, so build to tank. Take Tough and Weave. Chase defense bonuses within your budget: Multi-Strike is good, and you have several places to put them. I also mix Cleaving Blow and Eradications. I did, and my Spines/WP can tank just about anything in the game, and is my preferred tank for Lady Gray and anything in the Shadow Shard.



<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

Posted

Some thoughts...you have one unique IO in the build, get another...a Steadfast Protection: +3% Defense.

Not knowing if you have any perticular powers you want to take or don't want...for concept or just not liking them...I really can't say much more than that.

For instance, grabbing Combat Jumping is always useful for WP as it adds more defense to take on to the defense WP gives you.

Tough/Weave...mandatory imo if you want the survival WP is known for.

Which is something I think people forget.

They make a shield tanker/scrapper or WP tanker/scrapper, and don't do as well as they see others do. Yes, IOs make them even more godlike, but part of it is taking Tough/Weave (okay shields can probably pull off softcapped defenses without Weave, but not as easily, and if they grab tough, might as well grab Weave.

The Steadfast isn't all that expensive buying it with merits. 125 merits (which is cheap imo...for what it does), and it goes so well with WP (slot it in HPT).

4 slot tough and Mind Over Body, put some cheap Reactive Armors in, for even more Defense (Res/End, Res/Rch, Res/End/Rch, & Res)...I'd even suggest going that route with Strength of Will when you get to that lvl.

Of course you'll want to hit lvl 30 at least imo. But I like to slot lvl 33 IO sets for exemping purposes.

I won't mention anymore IOs other than those, as those I mentioned are pretty easy/cheap to get.

I'd also suggest going for the +HP accolades asap.

Which, seeing as how you're in my SG, and I'm known for running lots of TFs, that shouldn't be hard to do (if you have the time for them). Will also get you the merits for the Steadfast.

I'd write up a build for you, but again, no idea of any concept powers you may or may not want.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

The unique is because it dropped and looks useful; i'm thinking that i'll do 5 of that set and a heal IO in RTTC. It's being warehoused in Health right now. I want the self res though; you've seen how I play, and it's that or carry around a couple of large wakes, but I want the space for purple red and green. So far i've wandered all over the place on Raptor packs without issue.


A no attack "Group-Friendly" Defender is like a "Team Friendly" basketball player who won't dribble, run, or shoot, under any circumstances. "I'm a PASSER."