Badge idea- possibly a bad one?
By
Blue Rabbit,
Posted on: 2009-10-07 10:08 in Badges and Gladiators
Quote:
A lot of snippage there, but since it's one post up....|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
We each started with a million. We still have 349,000 left. So we've destroyed 651,000 inf. And yet we've each BOUGHT 6.51 million worth of stuff.
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I'm not seeing a big problem here.... You got 1,000,050 in Influence and over 6.51 million in Inf tied up in items you couldn't use, so you sold them, making 6.51 million influence which you did use to get 6.51 mil in stuff you did need. You earned the items via drops, you sold them for influence, you spent the money. You didn't "create" millions of influence you merely traded the same influence back and forth losing a little each time. Had the two people in the example gotten together and traded outright they wouldn't have "destroyed" 6.51 milion in influence.
You seem to be ignoring the actual and perceived value of rewards other than influence in your thinking. If you have a recipe drop that is worthless to you, it is still worth something to someone (even if that someone is an NPC, hence the actual value part).
In your example, you got 10 mil in Influence AND 6.5 mil in items, not 1 mil influence and 0 influence in items. The other person got 10 mil in Influence AND 6.5 mil in items, not 1 mil influence and 0 influence in items. Therefore, all you did was inefficently trade the items using the market as a middle man and influence as a proxy at the cost of several hundred thousand Inf. So, even by your own example, the Inf sink worked extremely well, eliminating around 60% of the influence involved. Had the two of you been in the same SG and dumped the items into a bin and picked up what you needed, you'd have all the items AND 1,000,050 Influence with zero Inf elimination.
Put another way, you and I own two cars. I don't want my car and you don't want your car. You pay me $10,000 for my car, I turn around an dpay you the same $10,000 for your car. We didn't "create" 10 grand and won't have the Feds knocking on our doors for counterfitting. We each had a car valued at 10 grand by the other and used cash as a proxy for the trade. We cna't just ignore the perceived value of the cars in the trade.
Quote:
Making things up? I'm actually looking at what is happening on the market. Your example, as others have pointed out, is completely absurd. The speculators are the ones putting in low-ball bids, and then selling at "regular" market value, rather than using whatever was bid on.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
You aren't reading what I wrote. You're skimming it and making up the rest. That's a problem.
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A quick glance at the market section of the forums brings up many threads illustrating this.
See it does work. - "I also used lvl 50 set IO's that resell for $10,000 and can be bought for $1,000 or less."
Discussion - investment scheme - "Obviously, farmers and established marketeers wouldn't benefit from this scheme - it's too much hassle for too little return. This would be for those players who aren't rich and don't have the inclination to play the market, but still want to profit from it."
I could go on, but ever since the market was introduced the problem has remained. The problem is that people don't use what they buy, they bid low and sell the item for a higher price. Hence, this is a Market problem. You will not solve this problem by shifting the burden to remove Inf until you get rid of the people that don't use what they buy.
For the record, in my 10k crafting run I probably spent around 100 million inf on consumables (salvage, actually crafting, deleting empowerment buffs, etc). At one point I had 100 million inf, and accidentally put a crafted IO for bid at 2 billion inf (and losing 100 million inf). I took that IO off and put it back at a normal price (at that time). So I've personally destroyed well over 200 million inf, not including all my sets that I've slotted.
If you remove the "buy low-sell high" mentality from the market, then you get people using the items bought. If people use the items bought, that inf is destroyed.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
By the way, I gave a slightly abbreviated version of what TopDoc did, in a failed attempt to avoid the wall of text, and you seem to have misinterpreted it. What TopDoc did was sell his drops, mostly at below market price, because he had a lot of stuff to move. That's all. If the crafted item was worth a lot more than the recipe, he'd craft it. But his efficiency is all in GENERATING items at high speeds. That's what he likes doing.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Quote:
I think this is the crucial point. Instead of taking the hypothetical 2-person universe, which is an illustration you seemed to dislike, let's go through the history of a hypothetical Empowered Sigil and a hypothetical 800,000 inf. I go to Dark Astoria, hit a zombie, and an Empowered Sigil drops out. | If people use the items bought, that inf is destroyed. |
This Empowered Sigil wasn't bought [yet], wasn't sold [yet], it was created.
You, Snow Globe, run a Bloody Mary and create new inf that counts for the badge, and is also an increase to your net worth. This is also new inf to the game. Didn't come from another player. Never been spent. The total amount of inf in the game world goes up by 800,000 inf. It may be unrealistic to say you get 800,000 inf-I don't know the exact numbers- but let's pretend for a moment that you do. After all, perish and forbid I introduce an irrelevant oversimplification, on which you can leap.
You discover that you have a need for an Empowered Sigil, slightly after I list mine for 790,000. You bid 800,000 and lo! And behold! You buy my sigil.
You craft something and your empowered sigil disappears into the crafted item. That salvage is, in fact, destroyed.
80,000 inf of your original 800,000 inf is also destroyed. It's a Went-fee.
But 720,000 inf is NOT destroyed. I spend it on, let's say, a Smashing Haymaker Acc/Dam, put up on the market by my friend Michelle. Michelle now has 648,000 inf. which she spends on, I don't know, Black Blood of the Earth. The oversimplification here is that we're spending exactly what we got from the previous transaction. Notice that nobody here is flipping, crafting for profit, or doing anything other than selling something they don't want and buying something they do. Which is the REASON for the market to exist.
At that point, 2,168,000 inf has been spent of the 800,000 inf we started with. And whoever sold that diamond has 583,200 inf.
This is why market prices are so high. Because
If people use the items bought, that inf is not destroyed. The items bought are.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Shouldn't you be arguing this with the Developers instead of me? I've already suggested a viable way to provide a continuous way to remove large amounts of Inf from the game: Large buffs for large amounts of Inf (500k-1 Million a buff that lasts 24 hours).
Bottom line: The badge idea sucks and will never accomplish what you want it to do.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
First, we each buy the nicest thing for 1,000,000 inf. Wents takes 100K, we collect our money, we each have 900,000 inf left.
Then we buy the next-nicest thing for all the money we have left. Wents takes 10%, we have 810K left.
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