I should point out that Local_Man's "suggested" build won't do you any good right now, but that's the build you want to "respec" into once you hit 50. See, you're putting off your resurrection ability until last level (because you don't need to slot it for anything), but your teammates in the meantime may expect you to have it.
For NOW, I'd say switch Hasten with Mutation.
Also, re: invisibility. Superior Invisibility and Group invisibility are pretty much swappable. Group invis obviously helps the whole group, but Superior invis will keep YOU safer if you're solo.
What I recommend is that you work on two builds (you can have an "alternate" build that's accessible via any Trainer): A solo build, and a group/teaming build.
For the Solo build, get Superior Invis, hold off on any team buffs for as long as you can (such as Mutation, or even skip it all together), and work on getting Stamina and your pets as quickly as possible. Also, take Flash sooner if you can, it's your only good single-target, damage hold
For the team build, you can put off stamina and hasten, as you'll (hopefully) team with other controllers and defenders who can buff you. At the very least, you can pause while the rest of the team is fighting to catch your breath. In the meantime, you can get Mutation sooner and swap out SI for GI. Work on getting as much of your secondary and AoE mezzes as quick as possible. Flash you can hold off on, too.
Both Ill/Rad is a VERY powerful combination... you may have trouble playing anything else once you get the hang of this build =)
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
Quote:
Ah, is it that essential for teaming? I figured we could just use Inspirations.|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
See, you're putting off your resurrection ability until last level (because you don't need to slot it for anything), but your teammates in the meantime may expect you to have it.
|
Quote:
| (you can have an "alternate" build that's accessible via any Trainer) |
I've now searched on that topic, and what I've found is this:
First the character has to be level 10. After that. You can go to any trainer and you will see a "switch your active build". After you switch, you will have to visit the trainer and re-choose your powers(like a respec)...you would have to have a full new set of enhancements, they do not carry over.
Is that the essence of it? Anyplace I should read more about Multi Builds?
Quote:
| Also, take Flash sooner if you can, it's your only good single-target, damage hold |
And on the question of Invisibility, is it so useful that I should take it before Hasten? Postponing Stamina? Is it useful for more than sneaking up to flashies?
You have several issues that you are dealing with here.
First and most important, are you trying to make a character that is
- Character conception -or-
- Mini-maxed
Though many players do, you do not need to mini-max your character in order to have a playable character. Character conception characters can and do function well in the game.
[A quick note though about the SSK (SuperSide Kicking) system and how it will effect a lot of build planners. I think there will be a lot more exemplaring going on than what has gone on in the past as characters can be exemplared to a lower level and still get xp. Therefore, it becomes important in regards to what order you pick your powers even through respec-ing. If you pick you pick power order based on slotting alone during respec-ing you will end up with a weak build when exemplared.]
That being said, working to get Stamina by 20 or shortly afterward is a good goal for almost all AT's.
The next consideration is if you are trying to make a solo, team, or team-support character.
These are three very distinct builds.
Solo ::Obviously, as a solo character you don't need group invisibility. Superior Invisibility will do. Also, you don't have to worry about powers that will help teammates. No need for Recall Friend if there is no one to use it on.
Team :: If you are on a team, then you may or may not want group invisibility. It can be very helpful if you can make the rest of the team invisible except for any scrappers or tankers on the team. This allows the scrappers and Tankers to keep more of the agro. Superior invisibility can be useful, but if other characters are holding agro then you won't need to keep it on all the time. If the melee characters have the agro, then you can use more AoE's.
Team Support :: Team Support characters focus on powers that can make the team more powerful. You still want to pick some attacks, but the major focus is making everyone else more powerful. You can probably just go with group invisibility for this kind of build.
Note that all characters have two-builds, so you can have one for soloing, etc. and another for pvp, team, team support, av fighting, etc. You can also move your character over to the test server and test things out there before making "final" decisions on live.
I try to take all of this into account when building a character, but I always build based on character conception. Then again, I don't use respec-ing very often (I think I've used less than 10 respecs - probably less than 5). I like the flavor of my characters. To me, using a planner is kind of "cookie cutting". It's one thing to end up with that kind of build, it's another just to take it because "it's the only build for that AT and power sets". And that is because it isn't "the only build for that AT and Power set". But that's me.
The important part is to have fun. So create your character the way you want to play it. If it isn't fun to play, then try building it a way that you think would be fun to play.
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Insp are slow rezs. You get up with low hit points, no end, and are disoriented for a while.|
Originally Posted by CB_GB
Ah, is it that essential for teaming? I figured we could just use Inspirations.
|
Rez Power are very powerful in combat because you are resurrecting your team mates to full hp with full end instantly - Mutation even makes rez'ed characters temporarily more powerful! This means that they can immediately toggle-up and get back into combat!
You say you solo a lot, so keep Hasten and get Mutation late if at all. In fact, I'd do that in a team build too. You'll want Phantom Army up as much as possible, and Hasten helps a lot with that.
With increased levelling speed and the ability to buy new jetpacks when you run out, you might want to put off Fly until 22 so you can fit Stamina in at 20.
As for invisibility; it's very useful. I prefer Superior over Group because I can turn it on and off as necessary.
As for builds; I got to 50 on my ill/rad mostly using this old guide. It's pre-IO, but by the time you get to 30+ and IOs get as good or better than SOs you'll probably have enough of a feel for what you want that you can decide on your own.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
Quote:
I have to disagree with much of this advice. My suggested build was intended to be a all purpose leveling build -- that's why I put it in three steps. I then had a final build with IOs that can be a level 50 respec build. The leveling build was intended to be for a player who both solos and teams. For a mostly solo character, I might do things differently. For a Team-Only character, I would also do things differently.|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
I should point out that Local_Man's "suggested" build won't do you any good right now, but that's the build you want to "respec" into once you hit 50. See, you're putting off your resurrection ability until last level (because you don't need to slot it for anything), but your teammates in the meantime may expect you to have it.
For NOW, I'd say switch Hasten with Mutation. Also, re: invisibility. Superior Invisibility and Group invisibility are pretty much swappable. Group invis obviously helps the whole group, but Superior invis will keep YOU safer if you're solo. What I recommend is that you work on two builds (you can have an "alternate" build that's accessible via any Trainer): A solo build, and a group/teaming build. For the Solo build, get Superior Invis, hold off on any team buffs for as long as you can (such as Mutation, or even skip it all together), and work on getting Stamina and your pets as quickly as possible. Also, take Flash sooner if you can, it's your only good single-target, damage hold For the team build, you can put off stamina and hasten, as you'll (hopefully) team with other controllers and defenders who can buff you. At the very least, you can pause while the rest of the team is fighting to catch your breath. In the meantime, you can get Mutation sooner and swap out SI for GI. Work on getting as much of your secondary and AoE mezzes as quick as possible. Flash you can hold off on, too. Both Ill/Rad is a VERY powerful combination... you may have trouble playing anything else once you get the hang of this build =) |
Mutation is entirely optional -- Of my 4 level 50 */Rad controllers, two of them have it and two don't. It depends on how tight the build is. Mutation is nice to have but with Rez inspirations, the ability to combine inspirations, the self-rez you can get as a temp power and the ally rez you can get as a day job accolade, I really find the need to have a rez power has dropped a lot in this game.
Hasten is not optional. You want to get PA up as much as possible once you get to SO level enhancements, and it has a lot of other benefits. I would not want to delay it until 49.
Using the dual builds is a good idea . . . as long as you have plenty of Influence. Having to buy two full sets of Enhancements is expensive for a new player. But it DOES allow you to have two distinctively different builds.
To discuss the OP's original question on Invisibility -- Frankly, a lot depends on your playstyle. With my Ill/Rads, I don't like getting killed much. I tend to use a lot more distraction, with Deceive and my pets, to avoid being detected. I would rather take a little longer to kill off a foe in safety than run in and kill stuff quickly. So, I like having invisibility early. I don't need much defense if the foes don't know I'm there until they are distracted by PA and/or Phantasm's Decoy, Deceive and Spectral terror. SI uses a lot of endurance, but that is not a problem if you are moving a little more slowly. (This is for solo and small team. On larger teams, the tank and/or scrappers will take the aggro, so you mainly need Invis for stealthing missions.) With Invis, you can lead your PA from one battle into the next without drawing attention to yourself. You can avoid fights that can be skipped.
Can you get by without Invis until upper levels or entirely? Sure! (I think I actually suggested holding off on GI until SO's.) But there are some real benefits to having it. If you want to delay SI or GI for a while, I suggest you go to Bloody Bay at level 15 and do the "Patrol Bloody Bay" mission from the Longbow contact. That will give you a 30 minute "Hyper Stealth" temp power -- not full invisibility, but it might be enough sometimes.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
Q_Arkhan's guide was intended for solo play, and of course was outdated. I acknowleded his Tom Foolery Guide in mine, but he did a few things more solo and less team oriented. I tried to have suggest a more flexible build. If my guide had been around in those days . . . |
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
.
As for builds; I got to 50 on my ill/rad mostly using this old guide. It's pre-IO, but by the time you get to 30+ and IOs get as good or better than SOs you'll probably have enough of a feel for what you want that you can decide on your own. |
I really tried to be fair and show different points of view (while pushing my own, of course). If anyone feels other points of view, I invite you to add to the discussion in my guide and post alternative builds.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
The Forum here is once again quite helpful. Thanks for the good thoughts.
Quote:
Absolutely. I should clarify that I'm an old veteran returning to the game (which is still great!). I wrote the very first Positron TF Guide years ago,|
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
First and most important, are you trying to make a character that is
|
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=112165
which doesn't make me an expert in anything, but it does make me old. Pre-First-Hasten-Nerf old. ED is new to me. I just learned there's a Vault. I'm full of Salvage parts I've never seen.
So I'm trying to learn what works well now, many Issues later and with a new playstyle for me:
1) mostly shorter periods online
and
2) a genuine interest in teaming but because of 1), a realistic expectation to solo often.
I didn't know we could have two builds, so I will make one team-oriented and one for solo.
Quote:
| I think there will be a lot more exemplaring going on than what has gone on in the past as characters can be exemplared to a lower level and still get xp. Therefore, it becomes important in regards to what order you pick your powers even through respec-ing. |
Note that Local's excellent guide and the older, still useful one linked by Obscure (above) have a similar set of power choices. The really big choice comes at 12, my current level.
Why 12? If you take a travel power as a given at 14, PA at 18, and a run to Stamina along the way, 12 is the last time for awhile you'll get to choose. If I pick Hasten now, I won't get Invisibility until 24, unless I push Stamina even further away.
Since I don't know how useful Invis is (either SI or GI), this is a good place to get a sense of other people's experiences.
Quote:
| the ally rez you can get as a day job accolade |
I've seen all kinds of new powers in my time back; today a teammate had a handy 'Teleport Team' I'd never seen before.
Quote:
| If you want to delay SI or GI for a while, I suggest you go to Bloody Bay at level 15 and do the "Patrol Bloody Bay" mission from the Longbow contact. That will give you a 30 minute "Hyper Stealth" temp power -- not full invisibility, but it might be enough sometimes. |
Thanks: this kind of tip is really useful. I'm starting from scratch, so I have no Influence other than what I get on the go. Any other achievable bonuses I should seek?
The Day Job accoldae I think you get by spending time logged off in a Hospital and a University. After a full 20 days worth of time in each location (you don't have to spend 20 straight days logged off, it's cumulative, just go to one of those locatiosn when you're done playing), you'll have both badges, which gives you an accolade power.
The Team Teleport is a Veteran Reward power for like 42 months or something. You can find more info on Vet rewards here: http://www.cityofheroes.com/communit...s_program.html
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
Quote:
Actually, it is 21 days, but yes, once you get Caregiver (for logging off in the hospital for 21 days) and Professor (for 21 days in the University), you get an Accolade, Physician, that then will give you charges to rez an ally for time you spend logged off in either any Hospital or any University. The best source for this kind of info is usually Paragonwiki. (Note that this is part of CoHTitan -- the old ParagonWiki site was taken over by some other folks and the information is not up to date.)|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
The Day Job accoldae I think you get by spending time logged off in a Hospital and a University. After a full 20 days worth of time in each location (you don't have to spend 20 straight days logged off, it's cumulative, just go to one of those locatiosn when you're done playing), you'll have both badges, which gives you an accolade power.
The Team Teleport is a Veteran Reward power for like 42 months or something. You can find more info on Vet rewards here: http://www.cityofheroes.com/communit...s_program.html |
On the SI vs GI thing: While GI can be a nice team buff, it is not really high on the list of desireable buffs. I like it for allowing a slower moving team to get in position for an alpha strike, but fast-moving teams don't need it, and a good tank can do the job, too. Frankly, even on a team build, I like Superior Invis better . . . Having to re-cast GI every few minutes is a real pain, when you can get it as a toggle. However, the downside is having to remember to turn off the toggle during battles that last long enough that the higher endurance of SI makes a difference.
On Hasten: I like having Hasten, even early, but before SO's at level 22, it is just not up all that often. It makes a much bigger difference after level 22. That's why I chose the order I did -- I felt that SI provided a larger benefit at levels 12-22 than Hasten did. But that was just my opinion, and lots of others may disagree.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
Make sure to run the University arc in the University in Steel Canyon or Cap Au Diable. Also make sure to talk to a Wentworths or BM contact to get the scoop on the market and IO's. |
Originally Posted by CB_GB
. I just learned there's a Vault. I'm full of Salvage parts I've never seen.
|
Base Salvage is now outdated and can only be used as material for crafting Brainstorm Ideas - which in turn can be crafted into IO salvage (Oh, well, looks like my guide on Brainstorm Ideas was deleted in the forum move!)
Quote:
|
So I'm trying to learn what works well now, many Issues later and with a new playstyle for me: 1) mostly shorter periods online and 2) a genuine interest in teaming but because of 1), a realistic expectation to solo often. |
I understand wanting to solo. Sometimes teams can be very time consuming to get rolling. If you are leader, you can put the "foot on the pedal" a bit.
Quote:
| I didn't know we could have two builds, so I will make one team-oriented and one for solo. |
Quote:
|
Note that Local's excellent guide and the older, still useful one linked by Obscure (above) have a similar set of power choices. The really big choice comes at 12, my current level. Why 12? If you take a travel power as a given at 14, PA at 18, and a run to Stamina along the way, 12 is the last time for awhile you'll get to choose. If I pick Hasten now, I won't get Invisibility until 24, unless I push Stamina even further away. |
One way to get it is to go to PI or Granville and pay 10k to the Jet Pack dealer.
The other way is to to run Scanner/Newspaper missions to get a Atlas Park Safeguard/mayhem mission in Kings Row/Port Oakes. Completing the Atlas Park Safeguard/mayhem mission by stopping the bank robbery/robbing the bank gives you a Raptor pack.
Getting the Raptor Pack could save you two power picks early on.
If you are solo, Superior Invisibility is very useful at the lower levels. It is, however, very endurance intensive. I would get it as soon as I could for a solo character, but that's me.
Quote:
|
How does that work? I've seen all kinds of new powers in my time back; today a teammate had a handy 'Teleport Team' I'd never seen before. |
Individual Day Jobs can be increased by "parking" at the location where the badge is obtained. This grants more and/or longer duration of that Day Jobs bonuses.
The combined badge powers can be charged (aka more uses) by "parking" at the spot of either of the two Day Job badges related to it.
The Day Job Accolade that rez's allies works like the med pool rez.
Some of the powers that you have seen like Assemble Team are both rewards for completing safeguard/mayhem missions and, sometimes, vet rewards.
Quote:
| Any other achievable bonuses I should seek? |
Make sure to set up a channel for "alerts". So you know when and where giant monsters are spawning, aliens are invading, zombies are rising out of the earth (I'm not joking), etc.
It isn't like the old days where you are stuck with the inf you character can build. Take a look at the market.
I had characters that could never get enough lot for enhances, and I'm practically playing Scrooge McDuck with characters that I have had for less than a week because of the Market.
Quote:
I've saved on some DOs I bought at reasonable prices, but like anything else, it takes awhile to learn how the Market works. Guides here have been helpful, but familiarity with demand is essential... and it's always easier to make money when you have money!|
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
It isn't like the old days where you are stuck with the inf you character can build. Take a look at the market.
I had characters that could never get enough lot for enhances, and I'm practically playing Scrooge McDuck with characters that I have had for less than a week because of the Market. |
Back to the original question in this Thread, Local's evaluation above is, once again, spot-on with what I found in running my first TF since returning. I found a few times when Group Invisibility would have been helpful, and I am putting it on my 'teaming' build, but we still did fine without it; it just would have saved a few minutes here and there.
SI has been useful, too, again as a time-saver in 'search' missions.
And what Altoholic implied above has certainly been true for me so far: finding teams has been easy, as long as I've been willing to jump into someone else's story arc.
How useful is it?
Or, more specifically, is it worth getting before Hasten? Worth putting off Stamina for another level?
And do groups benefit much from GI, or can I get by with SI?
I'm largely following Local's excellent guide to Ill/Rad controllers,
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=141225
and I'm at level 12. But I've skipped Invis until I learn more.
My vitals:
- I'm a total newcomer. I have so little influence, Hellions figure I'm not worth mugging. My build needs to work with DOs/SOs.
- I like teaming for fun and experience, but so far that's limited to sewer runs and the like. With no SG, I'm likely to team only in quick pickup groups. I end up doing my missions solo.
- I play in blocks of one or two hours. My build can't count on getting an item from a longer run or TF.
- I love, love the game and my ill/rad controller. Definitely a good AT for me.
Local's suggested build:
Level 1: Blind -- Acc(A), RechRdx(3), Hold(11), RechRdx(17), Acc(31), Hold(50)
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- Heal(A), Heal(9), RechRdx(34), Heal(50)
Level 2: Spectral Wounds -- Acc(A), Dmg(3), Dmg(5), Dmg(5), RechRdx(31), RechRdx(43)
Level 4: Deceive -- Acc(A), Conf(11), RechRdx(15), RechRdx(31), Acc(37)
Level 6: Accelerate Metabolism -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(7), RechRdx(7), EndMod(34), EndMod(46)
Level 8: Superior Invisibility -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(9)
Level 10: Radiation Infection -- ToHitDeb(A), EndRdx(13), ToHitDeb(15), ToHitDeb(17), DefDeb(34), DefDeb(50)
Level 12: Air Superiority -- Acc(A), Acc(13), Dmg(29)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight(A), Flight(27)
Level 16: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(19), RechRdx(19), Acc(21), Dmg(21), Dmg(23)
Level 20: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 22: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(23), EndMod(25)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(25), RechRdx(27)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- RechRdx(A)
Level 28: Enervating Field -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(29)
Level 30: Lingering Radiation -- Acc(A), RechRdx(40), RechRdx(40), RechRdx(40), Acc(43)
Level 32: Phantasm -- Acc(A), Dmg(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(33)
Level 35: Flash -- Acc(A), Acc(36), Hold(36), RechRdx(36), Hold(37), RechRdx(37)
Level 38: EM Pulse -- Acc(A), Acc(39), RechRdx(39), Hold(39)
Level 41: Fire Blast -- Acc(A), Dmg(42), Dmg(42), Dmg(42), RechRdx(43)
Level 44: Fire Ball -- Acc(A), Dmg(45), Dmg(45), Dmg(45), RechRdx(46), RechRdx(46)
Level 47: Consume -- Acc(A), EndMod(48), RechRdx(48), RechRdx(48)
Level 49: Mutation -- RechRdx(A)