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At a guess, it's would probably be Acid Mortar (to help the bots kill things faster,) Trip Mine for dealing with bosses, and you still get a semi-decent shield to stack with the Protector bots shields. Plus with Traps there's actually something to *do* during combat, and some feel it takes a little more strategic thinking. As you said, with Bots/FF, you basically walk into a room in Bodyguard mode, poke someone in the eye and then just wait for the shooting to stop. Personally, I have one of each, and happen to like both combos.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Brainbottle
Can anyone explain to me what actual advantages bots/traps has over bots/ff, other than bots/ff being "boring"? My main character Doctor Brainbottle is a level 50 bots/ff mastermind, and I for one don't EVER get bored of being an invincible force of unstoppable destruction.
I have a ninja mastermind (the king of single target damage) with traps as a secondary who likes to set up a kill zone full of traps and ninjas and then teleport foes into it one by one, so I'm not completely unaware of the advantages of traps, but in my experience it involves a lot of planning where I'm going to set my traps and waiting for various cool-downs before I can move to a new location. When Doctor Brainbottle wants to move to a new location, he just hovers on over. There are no cooldowns to wait for, and no traps to set up. He can charge headfirst into a room without worrying too hard about what's in it, and then kill whatever tries to stop him. If I really put my mind to it I can strategically use my knockback and force bubble powers to trap enemies in a corner where my assault bot's napalm rockets can REALLY add up, but most of the time things just die before it becomes necissary. And mind you, that's without a single purple IO and plenty of mere SOs still in my build. |
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Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
Most MMs can do well, if you learn the powersets. Also, I'm one of those heretic MMs that takes personal attacks, so I have a very active Bots/FF/Mu Mastermind that's always doing something in combat. I prefer to leave the pets in Bodyguard mode unless I'm dealing with a single boss or something, which means I have to deal with the Pet AI for choosing targets. I swear they have a routine that runs something like:
If (Target.health) <= 10% Then (Select NewTarget) So being able to put a laser bolt into an enemy that is just standing around with about ten hitpoints is very helpful for me. It also gives me a method for drawing the initial attack from a group - Photon Grenade is a great way to open an attack if you want everything in sight to shoot at you. *Edit* A possible exception to the "most MMs can do well" idea might be Mercs. Unfortunately, their damage is apparently a fair bit lower than any of the equivalent MM pets across the board. This might be meant to balance the mez effects built into many of their attacks. Unfortunately, the long recharge times and low chance for those mez procs actually going off keeps this from being a totally fair tradeoff. They also share some of the same AI issues as Thugs, in that I know at least one player who thinks that the Medic should be officially renamed "Suicidal Idiot." |
Just make a macro: petcom_all attack my target
Use it instead of the default buttons the game gives you and they'll retain whatever mode you have them in allowing you to focus fire without breaking bodyguard.
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I never use the default buttons, as they aren't set up very well. Unless something has changed though, the last time I checked pets would only be in Bodyguard mode if they were in Defensive Follow. Giving them an attack order (even Attack Defensive) would break Bodyguard at that time. Even if it is possible to focus fire without breaking Bodyguard, I'd still rather take the personal attacks than an even more worthless power like Provoke. But that's just me, and I know I'm odd.
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Originally Posted by Power Corps
Just make a macro: petcom_all attack my target
Use it instead of the default buttons the game gives you and they'll retain whatever mode you have them in allowing you to focus fire without breaking bodyguard. |
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Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
I never use the default buttons, as they aren't set up very well. Unless something has changed though, the last time I checked pets would only be in Bodyguard mode if they were in Defensive Follow. Giving them an attack order (even Attack Defensive) would break Bodyguard at that time. Even if it is possible to focus fire without breaking Bodyguard, I'd still rather take the personal attacks than an even more worthless power like Provoke. But that's just me, and I know I'm odd.
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They break follow until the target is killed but remain defensive.
You're not odd, I'm respecing back to personal attacks myself. I'm running a bots/dark MM. I tried out the photon grenade and remain very unimpressed.
Looking at the first two personals, I see 4 sec and 8 sec recharge powers there. Combined with Twilight Grasp and that's a NRG or Cold /kin corruptor's bread and butter attack chain... 1,2,1, heal, repeat. Twilight has the same recharge as Transference so it works seamlessly. That's good damage if you can find the slotting to make them useful enough. Burn end like crazy but a good personal damage chain when I need it or just want to screw around would be more valuable than the Mag 2 photon crap.
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I didn't take Photon Grenade for the stun, as it is unreliable and not very strong. *If* the stun even goes off, and manages to stack with *all* the other stuns from the pets, I *might* be able to stun a Boss for a second or two. I took it because it's AoE damage, and generates a decent but not overwhelming amount of threat. I can launch it into the middle of the group so that I can take the Alpha and the first few attacks.
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Originally Posted by Power Corps
They break follow until the target is killed but remain defensive.
You're not odd, I'm respecing back to personal attacks myself. I'm running a bots/dark MM. I tried out the photon grenade and remain very unimpressed. Looking at the first two personals, I see 4 sec and 8 sec recharge powers there. Combined with Twilight Grasp and that's a NRG or Cold /kin corruptor's bread and butter attack chain... 1,2,1, heal, repeat. Twilight has the same recharge as Transference so it works seamlessly. That's good damage if you can find the slotting to make them useful enough. Burn end like crazy but a good personal damage chain when I need it or just want to screw around would be more valuable than the Mag 2 photon crap. |
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Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
I didn't take Photon Grenade for the stun, as it is unreliable and not very strong. *If* the stun even goes off, and manages to stack with *all* the other stuns from the pets, I *might* be able to stun a Boss for a second or two. I took it because it's AoE damage, and generates a decent but not overwhelming amount of threat. I can launch it into the middle of the group so that I can take the Alpha and the first few attacks.
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Nothing wrong there, just found it very underwhelming myself. I suppose it also depends on your secondary. I would rather get aggro and keep it while doing damage. Photon just doesn't seem to keep aggro long enough to justify it in my power selection.
Soloing, I run up on three mobs. Drop Darkest Night on one, put pets on another and my plan after respec is to take out the third or just keep aggro on it myself. That's the theory craft in my head so far.
Back to bodyguard mode, they break follow anyway when they start to engage. At least, the protector sure as hell isn't following anymore. I really don't see the difference in pet AI between defensive attack my target and just leaving them in BG mode attacking everything.
i made a bots/dark to over lvl 32, loved my final upgraded assbot
so i made a bots/ff to see for my self of this god mode mm that bored people to death
at only level 24, i have these defence stats on my pets
on top of having my pets at level 24, be Softcaped defence wise
i give my team mates who i group with, over 33_ def, or 3/4th of the defence to softcap them also, ever past team i been on has had god mode vs the newb content, We just cant die
its really funny to be having god mode for newb content, a few more levels to assbot then onto 32 bot upgrades and i be a unstoppable force
also i forget to add, my Dark bots is a lot like FF, only Better, much better in the hands of a master mm
i can -tohit a group of mobs so bad, its just like me and my bots/teammates was softcaped defence to their attacks, miss miss miss
on top of that, I have a ton of damage debuffs, so its like having a lot of res damage
onto of softcap defence vs your enemys, Crazy good
plus all the reaction tools, none thing can ambush me, i turn a group of ambush mobs in to helpless babys "lb ambushs"
like others have said, its the truth that:
when it comes to sheer survivability of bots/dark none can beat it
, its insane
i love these forums,i had ever intent on finding the must powerful builds, and thanks to you all pointing in my right direction, i have found some of them, devs are crazy to let mm's have Dark , its just to good in the right hands 
Petless ninja/FF is still the way to go.
Can anyone explain to me what actual advantages bots/traps has over bots/ff, other than bots/ff being "boring"? My main character Doctor Brainbottle is a level 50 bots/ff mastermind, and I for one don't EVER get bored of being an invincible force of unstoppable destruction.
I have a ninja mastermind (the king of single target damage) with traps as a secondary who likes to set up a kill zone full of traps and ninjas and then teleport foes into it one by one, so I'm not completely unaware of the advantages of traps, but in my experience it involves a lot of planning where I'm going to set my traps and waiting for various cool-downs before I can move to a new location.
When Doctor Brainbottle wants to move to a new location, he just hovers on over. There are no cooldowns to wait for, and no traps to set up. He can charge headfirst into a room without worrying too hard about what's in it, and then kill whatever tries to stop him. If I really put my mind to it I can strategically use my knockback and force bubble powers to trap enemies in a corner where my assault bot's napalm rockets can REALLY add up, but most of the time things just die before it becomes necissary. And mind you, that's without a single purple IO and plenty of mere SOs still in my build.