Please critique DM/WP build, oh mighty build-gurus

Braeden · 09-09-2009 10:15 AM

Hello fellow scrappers! Im a, uh, 4th time poster, long time lurker. Ive come here today to seek the wisdom of the build-tweakers and number-crunchers regarding a DM/WP build. Its what I think Im going to start working on at 50, not what I have currently as Im just 41.

When putting this build together in Mids, my first priority was to approach the typed defense softcap. Once I felt I was as close to that goal as I was going to reach without making extreme sacrifices, I focused on Max Hp. I didnt focus how much or how little this build would cost, as this is going to be a build Im willing to work on for awhile.

What Id really like, in addition to your general comments, is feedback concerning the viability of this build as an AV soloer. Will it generate sufficient DPS? Did I sacrifice to much recharge, max hp, etc to approach the def softcap? Please, be liberal with your criticisms; its the best way for me to learn.

Btw, the empty slot in Mind Over Body is for the PvP +3 Def IO.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Nex Proeliator: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(5), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(37), Numna-Heal(37), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(37), Numna-Heal/Rchg(39)
Level 2: Smite -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 4: Shadow Maul -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Erad-Dmg(36), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(36), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(36)
Level 6: Fast Healing -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(23), Numna-Heal/Rchg(23), RgnTis-Regen+(46)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Nictus-Acc/Heal(13), Nictus-Heal(13)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(46), LkGmblr-Rchg+(46)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(40), Numna-Heal/Rchg(40), DarkWD-ToHitDeb(40), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(42), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(43)
Level 18: Mind Over Body -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(19), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(19), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(48), Empty(48)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21)
Level 22: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(25), Numna-Heal/Rchg(25)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(43), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(43), Rec'dRet-ToHit(45)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+(29)
Level 30: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(31)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(34), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(48), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 38: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(39), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45), LkGmblr-Rchg+(45)
Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Tactics -- Rec'dRet-Pcptn(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

25.5% Defense(Smashing)
25.5% Defense(Lethal)
12.4% Defense(Fire)
12.4% Defense(Cold)
9.25% Defense(Energy)
9.25% Defense(Negative)
3% Defense(Psionic)
14.3% Defense(Melee)
6.13% Defense(Ranged)
7.69% Defense(AoE)
3.6% Max End
30% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
10% FlySpeed
316.2 HP (23.6%) HitPoints
10% JumpHeight
10% JumpSpeed
MezResist(Immobilize) 17.1%
20% Perception
2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
88% (4.92 HP/sec) Regeneration
25% RunSpeed

Code:

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Reptlbrain · 09-09-2009 10:45 AM

Words from a non-mighty build guru:

Sub out an endmod/x from each of Stamina and QR, and sub in +end procs.

Sub out the damage Eradication for dmg/rech Eradication in Shadowmaul.

Smite and Midnight Grasp need way more accuracy (and are way overslotted for damage past ED cap).

I'd probably get rid of Assault and put in Dark Consumption, maybe stealing 2 slots from RttC so that acc/recharge can be gotten in useful amounts.

The perception proc in Tactics is redundant, unless you're planning on having Tactics merely as a set mule for the 1.88 s/l def, or maybe PvPing, dunno.

Braeden · 09-09-2009 06:03 PM

Quote:

Words from a non-mighty build guru

Reptlbrain, thanks! I appreciate anyone that takes the time to help me tweak a build, whether they think of themselves as a mighty build guru or not.

Quote:

Sub out an endmod/x from each of Stamina and QR, and sub in +end procs.

I have incorporated this change into the build, but Id still like to know the details for my own education. I take it that over a long enough period of time the +end proc IOs will provide more endurance recovery than the extra 0.24 end/sec that Mids says Im losing from this switch? Do you know how often the proc IOs have a chance to fire in an auto powers like Quick Recovery and Stamina?

Quote:

Sub out the damage Eradication for dmg/rech Eradication in Shadowmaul.

Smite and Midnight Grasp need way more accuracy (and are way overslotted for damage past ED cap).

Thanks! I dont know how I missed noticing how much over the ED those were. >.<

Quote:

I'd probably get rid of Assault and put in Dark Consumption, maybe stealing 2 slots from RttC so that acc/recharge can be gotten in useful amounts.

Another great suggestion! Ive been thinking Id like to have Dark Consumption for emergencies (i.e. too many Sapper hits) but I didnt think I could fit it into this build. Im ashamed to admit, but I forgot that you only need one power pick from the first two tiers of power pools to get the tier three power. So, Im glad you made that suggestion.

I only stole one slot from RttC though, so I wouldnt lose the extra max Hp from the IO sets there.

Quote:

The perception proc in Tactics is redundant, unless you're planning on having Tactics merely as a set mule for the 1.88 s/l def, or maybe PvPing, dunno.

Ive replaced the perception proc with the RecdRet-To Hit/Rech, because youre right in that I dont need the extra perception except in PvP (which doesnt interested me atm) but I did specifically want the 1.88 S/L defence.

So, Ive tweaked the build based on those suggestions and its posted below.

Anyone else care to offer some suggestions? Even if they are suggestions to radically alter the build, Id really like to get more feedback.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Nex Proeliator: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(5), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(37), Numna-Heal(37), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(37), Numna-Heal/Rchg(39)
Level 2: Smite -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 4: Shadow Maul -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(36), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(36), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(36)
Level 6: Fast Healing -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(23), Numna-Heal/Rchg(23), RgnTis-Regen+(46)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Nictus-Acc/Heal(13), Nictus-Heal(13)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(46), LkGmblr-Rchg+(46)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(40), Numna-Heal/Rchg(40), DarkWD-ToHitDeb(40), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(42)
Level 18: Mind Over Body -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(19), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(19), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(48), Empty(48)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-End%(21)
Level 22: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(25), Numna-Heal/Rchg(25)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(43), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(43), Rec'dRet-ToHit(45)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+(29)
Level 30: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(31), P'Shift-End%(31)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 38: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(39), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45), LkGmblr-Rchg+(45)
Level 47: Dark Consumption -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Tactics -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

25.5% Defense(Smashing)
25.5% Defense(Lethal)
12.4% Defense(Fire)
12.4% Defense(Cold)
9.25% Defense(Energy)
9.25% Defense(Negative)
3% Defense(Psionic)
14.3% Defense(Melee)
6.13% Defense(Ranged)
7.69% Defense(AoE)
3.6% Max End
30% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
10% FlySpeed
316.2 HP (23.6%) HitPoints
10% JumpHeight
10% JumpSpeed
MezResist(Immobilize) 23.7%
88% (4.92 HP/sec) Regeneration
25% RunSpeed

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Umbral · 09-09-2009 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braeden

I have incorporated this change into the build, but Id still like to know the details for my own education. I take it that over a long enough period of time the +end proc IOs will provide more endurance recovery than the extra 0.24 end/sec that Mids says Im losing from this switch? Do you know how often the proc IOs have a chance to fire in an auto powers like Quick Recovery and Stamina?

If you're curious at all about Quick Recovery, Stamina and anything else involving those powers, check out this thread. I get into the specifics of the various slotting option and why they're better than others.

If you don't want to bother reading it, suffice it to say that a Perf Shifter proc in a passive or toggle power would generate, on average, .2 end/sec. With 2 of them in your build, you'd be generating .4 end/sec (from the 2 procs) at the cost of .24 end/sec (from not having redzoned End Mod values or the set bonuses) along with the additional benefit that the Perf Shifter endurance isn't going to be debuffable, so even if you get hit by a Sapper, you'll at least have some chance at having endurance.

Braeden · 09-09-2009 07:22 PM

Thanks, Umbral! I checked out that thread and it definitely convinced me of the validity of using the +end procs.

AF_Bill · 09-11-2009 09:04 PM

Sorry, I have nothing to add, but just tagging this thread. I've recently got my DM/WP to level 30 and enjoying the game play, however, I don't have a final build.

Although I'm going a slightly different power route I think some of this info will be great for some ideas on my toon too.

Braeden · 09-13-2009 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AF_Bill

Sorry, I have nothing to add, but just tagging this thread. I've recently got my DM/WP to level 30 and enjoying the game play, however, I don't have a final build.

Although I'm going a slightly different power route I think some of this info will be great for some ideas on my toon too.

That's great, I'm glad you gained something from checking this build out.

...

Anyone believe they can give a ballpark estimate of what this build will cost?

Nihilii · 09-13-2009 08:37 AM

At current market prices, I'd estimate it at around 1 billion. Actual price might vary a lot depending on your patience - my estimation isn't on "buy it now!" prices nor on "let each bid sit for days or even weeks", but somewhere in between.

Braeden · 09-13-2009 08:48 AM

1 billion, huh? Well, I guess it will give me something to do while I'm waiting for SW:TOR. Thanks for the reply, Nihilii.

Does anyone have anything else to say about this build? Specifically, I don't want to do the work to get this built and then find out my DPS is severely lacking or something. So, if anyone thinks they see a flaw, please point it out.

Nihilii · 09-13-2009 09:06 AM

If you're not in a rush you can probably get it for a lot cheaper, not to mention I16 might drop prices a bit.

Looks like you could almost run Smite SP SL Smite SP MG and I recall Werner saying this chain is almost as good as the top one for DPS (too lazy to check myself), so you should be fine for most AVs if you changed one of the makos in MG for a common recharge IO - there might be better ways to get there, I just took a quick glance at it.

I think there's stuff you could do better, though. A kismet in IW, some acc slotting in DC.

Also, I didn't notice you mentioned the +3def PVP IO. Keep in mind this IO alone is worth between 1 and 2 billions at current market price, more than your whole build minus it, basically.

Braeden · 09-14-2009 08:37 AM

Well, while reading another thread here in the scrapper forums I learned of the "Rule of 5" concerning set bonuses. Upon learning about that, I realized I had too many +Hp sets slotted. So, I altered a few things:
-switched the Numina's: Heal in Health to a regular Heal IO
-switched the Performance Shifter: EndMod in Stamina to a regular EndMod IO
-switched the Dark Watcher's Despair: To Hit Debuff in RttC to a regualr ToHitDebuff IO
-removed the 5th slot from RttC and placed it in Dark Consumption (which is what Repltbrain said to do all along and it wasn't until now that I realized why, hehe)
-removed the regular Recharge IOs from Dark Consumption and placed 3 Efficacy Adaptor IOs

So, the set bonus redundancy has been removed, Dark Consumption now has descent accuracy and the build will cost a little less too.

I'm still definitely open to comments and criticisms of this build if anyone has the time to look it over.

One thing that bugs me is the gap this build will have when running the "Smite -> SP -> MG -> Smite -> SP -> SL" chain, since my MG recharges too slowly in this build. Any recommendations for speeding it up?

Well, anyways, here is the build after the changes mentioned above.

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Umbral · 09-14-2009 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braeden

So, I altered a few things:
-switched the Numina's: Heal in Health to a regular Heal IO
-switched the Performance Shifter: EndMod in Stamina to a regular EndMod IO

And both of those things were bad things to do. You should have changed the partially useless enhancement IOs out of those sets rather than taking out the completely useful ones. For Health, take out either the Heal/End or Heal/Rech rather than the Heal because the Heal provides more of the only benefit that you're actually using. The same applies to Quick Recovery for the EndMod.

Quote:

I'm still definitely open to comments and criticisms of this build if anyone has the time to look it over.

One thing that bugs me is the gap this build will have when running the "Smite -> SP -> MG -> Smite -> SP -> SL" chain, since my MG recharges too slowly in this build. Any recommendations for speeding it up?

Sure, get rid of some of that largely pointless focus on +regen set bonuses (you're DM/WP for Posi's sake; what are you trying to get damage recovery for? you've got it coming out of your ears!) and gnab some sweet, sweet +recov. Wanna know what I'd do? Sure, you do!

First things first, to get MG down to the required 6.6 second recharge time, you need 128% +rech in it. You've currently got 109.93%.

1. Switch the Acc/End/Rech in MG into a common Rech IO. This will net you 15% of the +rech you need and only cost you a pittance of accuracy and end redux.

2. Pull 2 of the slots out of Health and the tohit debuff IO out of RttC and put em into Dark Consumption (you can trade up the slots by getting rid of those level 50 slot assignments in lower level powers). Then, get rid of those Eff Adaptors in DC and replace them with the awesome might of Obliteration 6 piece. That will get you 5% +rech along with a bunch of other awesome bonuses.

Here's what you'd get after all of my changes (there are a few others I didn't mention, like putting the Numina proc into FH and taking out the Heal/Rech). It's got a tad less damage recovery (2.6 hp/sec less), but it's got better defenses (softcapped s/l) and better endurance sustainability plus tab bit more recharge and a 6.51 second recharge on MG. And Dark Consumption will actually be a respectable damage dealing power now too.

Code:

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Imaheroe · 09-14-2009 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braeden

Well, while reading another thread here in the scrapper forums I learned of the "Rule of 5" concerning set bonuses.

In Mid's make sure you click the "View Active Sets" button. it will alert you if you have done this and it lists where.

makes it a bit easier.

Braeden · 09-14-2009 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaheroe

In Mid's make sure you click the "View Active Sets" button. it will alert you if you have done this and it lists where.

Roger, I learned about that in the other thread too and it did indeed make it a lot easier to track down where I was ignorantly being redundant.

Braeden · 09-14-2009 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umbral

Wanna know what I'd do? Sure, you do!

Yes, I do!

Unfortunately, when I tried pasting your build code into Mids, it only goes up to level 18.

Are you using a modified or more updated Mids version?

After reading your post I literally slapped my forehead for missing the stuff you pointed out. I made the changes you mentioned and exported the build as it stands now.

And thanks for taking the time to give me some advice.

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Umbral · 09-14-2009 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braeden

Unfortunately, when I tried pasting your build code into Mids, it only goes up to level 18.

Are you using a modified or more updated Mids version?

I'm currently using St0n3y's unofficial Mids' update. You probably got stopped at 18 because I included the Gladiator's Armor 3% +def IO in MoB and that's not included in the last version Mids sent out. St0n3y has the links to the download for his version here.

Braeden · 09-15-2009 05:02 AM

Ah, thanks Umbral.