Priorities
IMO, a good alternative slotting for Dull Pain is:
Numina's Heal
Numina's Heal/Rech
Doctored Wounds Heal/Rech
Lv50 Recharge common IO
This gives you the 12% regen bonus from Numina's as well as 91.7% healing and recharge enhancement for only 4 slots.
I don't think 6-slotted Doctored Wounds is worth it at all. The 6th slot bonus is useless, and if you are missing the 5% recharge bonus, you can put an LotG 7.5 in Invincibility with one of the two slots you saved.
I can't comment on your build goals at large but if you want regen, you ought to heavily slot Health because the regen uniques are boosted by the enhancement % in the power itself.
IMO, a good alternative slotting for Dull Pain is:
Numina's Heal Numina's Heal/Rech Doctored Wounds Heal/Rech Lv50 Recharge common IO This gives you the 12% regen bonus from Numina's as well as 91.7% healing and recharge enhancement for only 4 slots. I don't think 6-slotted Doctored Wounds is worth it at all. The 6th slot bonus is useless, and if you are missing the 5% recharge bonus, you can put an LotG 7.5 in Invincibility with one of the two slots you saved. I can't comment on your build goals at large but if you want regen, you ought to heavily slot Health because the regen uniques are boosted by the enhancement % in the power itself. |
Hmmm, or I could replace the Doctored Wounds Heal/Recharge with the Numina's Heal/End/Recharge (which only reduces the heal/recharge by ~3% which probably isn't even noticeable) and snag the +35 HP bonus as well!
Regen isn't a main goal of my build per se, I'd be much more successful with WP I think if it were, but I figure it couldn't hurt to boost it as much as possible and I'm not really sacrificing anything crucial to increase it
I considered swapping the Doctored Wounds Heal/Rech for a Numina triple too, but it is very easy to hit the HP cap with just Dull Pain and +15% from accolades, in which case the HP set bonus will only be useful when Dull Pain isn't up.
It's not likely to make a significant difference either way (35 HP vs a few seconds shaved off Dull Pain's recharge), except that Numina's triples are a lot more expensive than any Doctored wounds.
Yeah, I forgot about that. I guess I'm just addicted to set bonuses
Dull Pain needs to be six slotted. It also needs the equivalent of 3 recharge SO's, and 3 Healing SO's. If you don't General Patton's zombie will rise from the grave and beat you to death with a shoe. How you get there, is less important imo, than actually getting there. 3 Heal will cap your HP while DP is up, which is cool beans.
If you're already soft-capped/hard-capped, the world's your oyster, squishy and smelly. I personally would either focus on recovery or recharge, although how much IO set space you've got left, I don't know. Recovery can be an issue. If it is, it's nice to get it outta the way.
Enough recharge will perma-Dull Pain, which I'm told is the bee's knees. Capped HP adds the equivalent of 30% res to everything or so I'm told. And that heal every two minutes just for kicks. Whether you can get that kinda recharge out of an already soft-capped build I don't really know. A heavy recharge focussed Inv build kills two birds with one stone (recharge and HP).
Dull Pain needs to be six slotted. It also needs the equivalent of 3 recharge SO's, and 3 Healing SO's.
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Because of the ED cap, you could add 2% to 5% more recharge with that sixth slot, if you can't think of anything better to do with it.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Well according to mid's DP lasts 120 seconds and with Hasten it will recharge in 120.3, of course I'm not sure if that counts as "perma" since Hasten won't be up all the time but it seems close enough to at least call it semi-perma. I really don't see how to truly make it perma unless I had a recharge bonus in like every single power.
I think you can free up slots for more fire/cold defense. I realize that S/L really counts but I am intrigued into how Going Rogue make the game look like cake. Pure damage types could do that.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
My base slotting for Dull Pain is 5 Doctored Wounds, all but the End/Recharge and save the last slot for another power that needs it more.
Looking over your build there's a few things I'd change... I'd add a 5th slot in TI for the Steadfast unique so it'll be there if you exemplar below 32. I'd probably toss another set of Reactive Armor into RPD and Res Energies. Stamina I'd stop at 4 slots, the fifth Perf. Shifter probably isn't as useful as that slot would be elsewhere.
I'd be tempted to rearrange the power selection and dump Build Up, grab Boxing in it's place and put Tough/Weave in at 30 & 32. Resist Energies I'd move out into the late 40's and personally I'd skip Resist Elements.
I'm not completely familiar with Electric Melee, I've only played it on a level bumped Shield/Elec tank on test. With that said I'd be tempted to find a way to snag Jacob's Ladder, it's a pretty nice cone attack and Electric's strong point is AOE.
Getting back to your original question of priorities, I'd tend to list my power/IO bonuses in this order:
- Soft cap S/L defense and as much E/N defense as is practical, ideally above 40%
- 90% S/L resistance and maximum E/N resistance.
- Dull Pain above 90% recharge/heal
- Enough endurance recovery to support the demands of the toggles and attacks. How much is that? It all depends on the rest of your build and only actually playing it will tell you.
- F/C defense above 30% (likely automatic with Weave and the Steadfast unique)
- Regeneration above 200%
- Recharge bonuses aren't a big priority for me on an Invuln; I don't need Dull Pain to be constantly available thanks to the other defenses and I have a full chain. If they're there on sets I want for other purposes great but I don't really go looking for them.
Oh, just so you're aware the Kinetic Combat set is once again very expensive and hard to come by. You can accomplish the same thing with the Smashing Haymaker set, you'll just need to slot a couple more attacks with it.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Looking over your build there's a few things I'd change... I'd add a 5th slot in TI for the Steadfast unique so it'll be there if you exemplar below 32. I'd probably toss another set of Reactive Armor into RPD and Res Energies. Stamina I'd stop at 4 slots, the fifth Perf. Shifter probably isn't as useful as that slot would be elsewhere.
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I'd be tempted to rearrange the power selection and dump Build Up, grab Boxing in it's place and put Tough/Weave in at 30 & 32. Resist Energies I'd move out into the late 40's and personally I'd skip Resist Elements. |
I'm not completely familiar with Electric Melee, I've only played it on a level bumped Shield/Elec tank on test. With that said I'd be tempted to find a way to snag Jacob's Ladder, it's a pretty nice cone attack and Electric's strong point is AOE. |
Plus Jacobs Ladder takes AoE sets, not melee sets so I'm afraid that might lower my S/L defense too much.
Getting back to your original question of priorities, I'd tend to list my power/IO bonuses in this order:
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Oh, just so you're aware the Kinetic Combat set is once again very expensive and hard to come by. You can accomplish the same thing with the Smashing Haymaker set, you'll just need to slot a couple more attacks with it. |
Edit - Here's the data chunk of my "updated" build with some of Call Me Awesome's suggestions
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
One reason for the extra Reactive Armor sets is due to the very high cost and limited availability of Kinetic Combat... slotting Smashing Haymaker will be MUCH cheaper and easier but you'll need to find some more bonuses. Therefore two more sets of Reactive.
That's a valid choice; if recharge is more valuable to you then by all means go for it... you're the one playing the tank so by all means set it up the way you like. My focus and playstyle work very well for me, but you're not me so you should build to suit your own style. |
My brother told me yesterday he looked up Kinetic Combat and said most of the recipes were going for like 40 mil, so yeah I might make an "abridged" build that uses Smashing Haymakers instead and 4 slot my autos, but have the final goal of getting Kinetic Crash.
Sheesh though. Finding the slots to 4 slot my autos just feels like strangling my build...
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Electric Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(7), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17), RctvArm-ResDam(46)
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(11), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(11), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(31), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal(15), Dct'dW-Rchg(34)
Level 4: Havoc Punch -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(5), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(5), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(31), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(42)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 8: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam(17)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(37), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(43), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(46), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(46), Mocking-Rchg(48)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 16: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(45), RgnTis-Regen+(45)
Level 18: Invincibility -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(19), HO:Cyto(19), LkGmblr-Rchg+(45)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21), P'Shift-End%(48)
Level 22: Thunder Strike -- Erad-Dmg/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Erad-%Dam(25), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(34), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(42)
Level 24: Resist Physical Damage -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(37), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(37), RctvArm-ResDam(40)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I(A), LkGmblr-Def(27), LkGmblr-Rchg+(27)
Level 28: Chain Induction -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(29), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(29), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(34), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 30: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 32: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(33), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), RctvArm-ResDam(33)
Level 35: Weave -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(36), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), GftotA-Def(36)
Level 38: Lightning Rod -- Erad-Dmg/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Erad-%Dam(39), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(40), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Build Up -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(42)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Adrenalin Boost -- P'Shift-End%(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(48)
Level 49: Resist Energies -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(50), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50), RctvArm-ResDam(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
I'm confused. I followed your guide to just about the tee and I seem to be slightly lacking on my defenses. Now, I opted to go with Super Speed for my travel power so I could save a power slot (since I was taking Hasten anyway) and get Physical Perfection without having to drop something I wanted like Build Up, so I am missing 2.5% defense from CJ, but there's another 2-3% defense I'm missing and can't figure out where.
It's probably not a big deal though. I mean, Invincibility scales based on how many mobs are around you and I mostly play on large teams so when I need my defenses capped they should be capped. I guess I could see it being more important when facing like, a single AV though...
I don't know, it just seems the more I "work" my build the lower my defense get >_<
Edit: Hmmm, it seems mid's was not adding the Steadfast unique's +3% defense...
Edit2: It also seems mid's gets confused when opening the data link and swaps PP with Adrenaline Boost :S
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
My priorities go Defense, Resist, Heal per Sec (with DP + Accolades you can cap HP) then Damage, Endurance, then Regen because we are talking about an Invuln. In short I think you can make a better build still including build up.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Yeah, I would try to keep build up on an Elec Melee tank as well. Elec Melee has some of the worst damage of all the brute melee sets, specifically vs. single targets, don't think it went up on tankers.
I personally don't like Resist Elements and Resist Energies, but as with all things, YMMV. I would only take em to make up for set bonuses. Kinetic Combats are expensive, but, I have noticed them dropping a lot more on reward rolls in AE. Especially the harder to come by ones. On my SM/WP brute, I have only bought a couple, most have dropped for me. May be luck, but I'm not that lucky, so...........
Either way, Inv/Elec should be a farming machine, if you decide to IO it out. I wouldn't worry about the costs, you will be able to make it up in spades.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
Yeah, I would try to keep build up on an Elec Melee tank as well. Elec Melee has some of the worst damage of all the brute melee sets, specifically vs. single targets, don't think it went up on tankers.
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I personally don't like Resist Elements and Resist Energies, but as with all things, YMMV. I would only take em to make up for set bonuses. Kinetic Combats are expensive, but, I have noticed them dropping a lot more on reward rolls in AE. Especially the harder to come by ones. On my SM/WP brute, I have only bought a couple, most have dropped for me. May be luck, but I'm not that lucky, so........... Either way, Inv/Elec should be a farming machine, if you decide to IO it out. I wouldn't worry about the costs, you will be able to make it up in spades. |
I'm confused. I followed your guide to just about the tee and I seem to be slightly lacking on my defenses. Now, I opted to go with Super Speed for my travel power so I could save a power slot (since I was taking Hasten anyway) and get Physical Perfection without having to drop something I wanted like Build Up, so I am missing 2.5% defense from CJ, but there's another 2-3% defense I'm missing and can't figure out where.
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It's probably not a big deal though. I mean, Invincibility scales based on how many mobs are around you and I mostly play on large teams so when I need my defenses capped they should be capped. I guess I could see it being more important when facing like, a single AV though... I don't know, it just seems the more I "work" my build the lower my defense get >_< Edit: Hmmm, it seems mid's was not adding the Steadfast unique's +3% defense... Edit2: It also seems mid's gets confused when opening the data link and swaps PP with Adrenaline Boost :S |
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
What foe count for invincibility are you thinking of when you give those numbers? I consider myself to have a rather beefy energy defense at around 34% without invincibility, and it would take some serious money and build sacrifice to get higher, so that can't be it. But, 40% can be done without any IOs when invinc is maxed, so I'm curious what exactly you're suggesting.
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Here's the numbers on my Inv/Stone tanker right now with one foe in range:
- S/L def - 46.2%
- E/N def - 44.7%
- F/C def - 31.2%
- Psi def - 14%
- Melee def - 21.5% (applies to Psi)
- Ranged Def - 23% (applies to Psi)
- AOE def - 14%
- S/L res - 90%
- E/N res - 31.3%
- F/C res - 20%
Unfortunately any soft capped build is going to be tight and requires some sacrifices; I had to drop Stone Mallet from my build due to needing other powers and at one time I had Super Speed in addition to Super Jump on the character... that frill had to go by the wayside with the issue 5 and 6 nerfs. I could still have those powers, but I'd have to completely forgo my APP and I've tanked too many situations where a ranged attack was highly desirable.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
It's that 2.5% from CJ you're really missing. Taking your build and replacing Hasten/SS with CJ/SJ takes you to the 45% S/L soft cap, actually to 45.1%. You'll need to toggle CJ on in order to see the benefit, that's one of those things that everyone occasionally forgets and make you feel like an idiot when you remember... kind of like hunting around for your car keys and eventually discovering them in your hand
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It's certainly true that soft capping an Invuln amounts to overkill in most situations thanks to it's high resistances... mathematically however that last 5% of def from 40-45 actually mitigates as much damage as the first 40%. With 40% you've reduced the mob's chance to hit you to 10%... that last 5% to 45% actually cuts that in HALF to 5%. |
Still, my reasoning is that yeah I'll get hit ~2% more often w/o CJ but even still the S/L attacks that get through are still only doing 10% of their full damage.
What foe count for invincibility are you thinking of when you give those numbers? I consider myself to have a rather beefy energy defense at around 34% without invincibility, and it would take some serious money and build sacrifice to get higher, so that can't be it. But, 40% can be done without any IOs when invinc is maxed, so I'm curious what exactly you're suggesting.
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My Invul/EM tank has 44% E/NE defense with Weave and no CJ, and it would be much with easier a secondary with a lot of AoEs like Mace, Axe or Fire.
The keys, besides using Reactive Armor, are using Eradication for AoE attacks and Blessing of the Zephyr for travel powers.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
TLDR:
Basically, what's the priority order for the following stats for an Inv/ tanker with already capped S/L defense/resistance:
Regen
Recovery
HP
Recharge Bonus
Fuctionality of DP (i.e. the importance of maximizing the recharge/healing of this power)
So I've been messing around on mid's for the past few hours just toying around and trying to maximize my Inv/Elec tanker for I16. For the most part it looks good but I've run into a bit of a "can't have your cake and eat it too" situation. I can't seem to decide how best to slot Dull Pain/Health. Initially I 6-slotted DP with Doctored Wounds and put the 3 unique IOs into health, but then I decided to fiddle around and see if there was a better way to milk the stats for everything they're worth and I seemed to have opened Pandora's Box in the process >_>
I guess the best way to set this up is list each way I've tried slotting and list the pros and cons of each setup. I'll state the "title" of the setup and then follow it with the pros and cons of each.
First, here's the data chunk to my build just so you can view all of my defenses/resistances etc.
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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|B|
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Note1: the slotting I have is my initial slotting of DP/Health.
Note2: In the following setups I'm only going to list HP and regen/recovery bonuses as pros even though some sets offer defense/resist bonuses. This is mainly because the majority of those bonuses are obtained elsewhere in my build.
6 Doctored Wounds + 3 Uniques in Health
Pros:
Highest Recovery*
5% Recharge set bonus
All 3 unique IOs in an auto power (if you put a unique into DP it only gives you the bonus while DP's effect is in effect).
Cons:
Lowest HP
2nd lowest Regen
5 Numina's Convalescence + 2 Uniques in Health (2 of Miracle set)
Pros:
Good balance between Regen/Recovery
Highest HP**
Cons:
2nd lowest Recovery unless DP is in effect
DP is not ED capped for recharge
I don't really like having the "all-around" unique in a non-auto power
5 Miracles + 2 Uniques in Health (2 of Numina set)
Pros:
Highest Regen
Highest HP**
[uCons:[/u]
Lowest Recovery (2.93/s) unless DP is in effect
DP is not ED capped for recharge
5 Regenerative Tissue + 2 Uniques in Health (2 of Numina's set)
Pros:
Highest Recovery*
5% Recharge set bonus
Good balance between Regen/Recovery
Cons:
2nd lowest HP
Least functional DP (with this setup you have to really choose between maximizing healing or recharge, can't have both unless you give up the Recharge set bonus which I don't want to do)
*both are tied for highest Recovery
**both are tied for highest HP
So that's all the different variations I've tried. Hopefully this isn't too confusing, and thanks for any advice.