Need help with a human warshade build

Except if you do that, they won't remember what power you suggested, they'll just remember the nasty attitude in which you said it... Which, I guess, might also be what you want.

"The One"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

No, I'm not stating what "will" happen. No one can do that.

I'm stating what "has" happened.

I find it personally extremely very hard to pay attention to any of your points, legitimate or not, because I'm being overwhelmed by the argumentative, belittling way you come across. Because you "know numbers" shouldn't signify that you are "better" than anyone else, and although I doubt you really think you are, that's how you come across.

Makes it hard to hold a normal conversation/debate with someone like that, because my automatic reaction is to just either argue back, get defensive, provide the "flip-side" viewpoint (whether I agree with it or not), or all of the above. On top of that, putting words in my mouth, or constantly assuming you know what my intentions are (example: "promoting" human form), just further exasperates that.

"The One"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

And this is exactly why I'll continue to say it. Because if the disclaimer isn't put in they might not be aware of it. Or somebody reading the post who is also interested in the information being talked about might not be aware of it either.

Tons of posts I have read but not entered into contain advice that is relivant to me, and I would want to know (and I'm not alone I believe) things like "If you build this way you will have alot of fun but overall you will be losing in some area."

If they want to build one particular way the disclaimer will not deter them but it will (possibly) inform them and or the other people reading along.

I do not see the harm in providing all the facts when a question is asked. Unless of course your attempting to sway people to one thing or another, in which case giving them all the facts might not be benificial to your cause (and I'm NOT saying it's your intention), it's just the only reason I can figure to not relate pertinant facts such as this other than not wanting to do the extra typing.

And just because I found it finaly, this is why I keep stating your making a claim, it's not direct but it would lead people to believe human is the equal of Tri-Form in my opinion and I believe this is missleading as it might give them the idea "they" will automaticly be able to do what you do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienOne I've found that numbers on paper and actual battle-numbers, depending on the type of enemy you fight and what powers they have are quite different. I've found when soloing 8-man mobs that my human form is waaay more likely to survive and continue to put out numbers than my nova form is, therefore making the human form numbers higher in the long run, because the nova form winds up dying after a very short period of time. That, and the fact that there are only 4 attacks compared to the 6 or 7 I have in human form....ehhh... On top of that, there's no form switch time in human form--you just keep going with no stop... Numbers on paper aside... It's a no-brainer to me. I'd rather stay alive and continue to put out numbers. Don't get me wrong... I love nova form.... But, only in a situation where I have full and complete team support... If there's a controller holding the whole mob, yeah, nova is going to be the obvious choice... But, if I'm by myself taking on an 8-man mob with no help/no support? The form that's the most survivable AND puts out a heck of a lot of damage? Human form all the way. Dwarf may be more survivable, but it doesn't compare to my human form damage. Therefore, human form wins the "balanced" (survivability/damage output) equasion. That said, I can't WAIT until i16 is released and I can scale mobs, so I can actually show videos of both in action, so you can see what I'm talking about. "The One"

If your talking pre-Eclipse I'll buy it but after Eclipse the survivability factor isn't an issue and the damage Squid puts out even including shape shifting time far surpasses what human can do in most situations on "most" builds with even a tiny bit of recharge built in.

I believe you when you say it works best for you but this post would lead people to think human would outperform Tri-Forms on the majority of builds and I do not believe this is the case for most players skilled enough to run both types equally well.

That quote, taken in the proper context, refers to only MY situation. There is a vast difference between referring to your *own* situation and stating that *everyone* will be more surviveable in human form.

Especially considering the fact that I've since stated that general Kheldian inexperience plays a huge factor in whether or not certain builds and numbers work. I'll state it again: If one can't properly play a Kheld, how are they going to match up to the ridiculous variables of "if you're in this situation and you use these power exactly at this second and change forms exactly at this moment and then switch back exactly at this time and only taken in the context of when you're soloing a map mapped for 1 in a continuous rolling attack chain of 3 minutes, while traveling at this speed and using these reflex times, etc. etc.... You'll get these numbers"?

I certainly can't predict what a person will do in-game. So, I don't pretent to know if someone playing MY already setted-out WS could actually perform the same way I could. Which, of course, I've also, again, already. stated. before.

"The One"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

I am aware that was your intention, my only point was that it could easily be taken as both an advocation for "noobs" to take human only before their ready and an indication that "all" human builds would perform at the same type level as your build is indicated to perform at.

And I believe this a dangerous place to take a reader of the forums without also explaining the downsides to avoiding the forms.

So I am infact still wondering what your objection is to you or anyone else putting that sort of disclaimer in. Because I'll be honest it seems to bother you alot when I do exactly that.

QR

Part of what we're seeing in this thread, and others, is the paradigm shift that has hit CoX with the release of the "real numbers" in the game. For over 4 years, we were operating pretty blind...we could see some powers out-performing others, or some tactics working better, but we had no idea exactly how much better. Or more accurately, no one outside of Arcanaville and a few other mathematics geniuses out there had any idea ;D. For the average player, it was all about the "feel" of things. I remember when I first came to the Kheld boards, someone greeted me with something like: "congratulations! after all your hard work to get to lvl 50, you can now have FUN as a kheldian!" (it took me over 500 hours to get to lvl 50...on a scrapper...). I can say, without hesitation, that kheldians are the most fun AT to play (for me) in the game, they "feel" good. Now, with the numbers being revealed, we can see just how good a double-mired eclipsed dark nova really was/is, and how lucky we were to be able to do that with just SOs...but the shift is taking place everywhere. Every board is talking numbers now, and not surprisingly, it has spread to here, the home of FUN! (tm). Not that numbers aren't fun...no no...math is good, stay in school...there's just no sense of adventure to it. There's no "omg, I did X Y Z on my WS last night, it was awesomesauce!" because all we see is 300% this, 180% that, 85% thisthat. The stories are gone....gone, from our EPIC! ATs....

I REMEMBER when LordX first started bamfing around in here, all wide-eyed and full of giggles...it makes me a lil sad to think the next generation of khelds might not be like that...

Aside from the comment about not liking Family Guy (How can anyone not love that show?!?!?!) I have to agree with Obsidian again, I was never really a big fan of all the stories that ended up on this board because they were just far too "look at me!" and I have never been that way. Plus I was never sure just how much of each story was missed out of exaggerated.

I would much rather you explain how you took a spawn down in x seconds using y tactic and z build, so everyone can replicate and try and improve on what you have just done. You can still use the poetic licence and do it in a story telling way if that is your thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

I agree. Numbers are fine, and other parts of the forums - most notably the Scrapper Forum - have used numbers to great advantage and had some fascinating discussions. That is awesome.

BUT - and there's always a but - you'll also notice that the Scrapper Forum is also famous for anecdotes and not a little bragging (justifiably so - I'm fairly proud of my battered and bloodied scrapper card, myself). The key thing to note here is that when someone makes a post in the Scrapper Forum about some unbelievable accomplishment the response isn't "vids or it didn't happen" - it's "way to go, man!" When someone asks for advice about ways to play a concept or unusual build, no one demands that they admit they're playing a substandard build in the context of "helping."

This is why the Scrapper Forum has such a great repuation. This is why players of other archetypes (including Kheldians) go to Scrappers for help. I'm not saying we're perfect over there, by any stretch. But when two scrappers disagree and can't come to terms, they LET. IT. GO. and agree to disagree. IMO we could use more of that in this forum.