This actually seems like it could be a decent Scrapper APP. The names and effects are definitely reminiscent of mystical kung-fu type stuff, which is a bit too specific for the general appeal the devs have attempted for APPs overall, but the mechanics themselves speak more to appropriate APP design for Scrappers than the existing APPs do (three cheers for crappy powers that try to replace functionality rather than augment).
Not for scrappers, IMO. APPs are supposed to fill in holes in the AT, not give more of what you already have. For scrappers, that's range and to a lesser extent control. Not more defenses and melee attacks.
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I would slightly maim any person you'd care to name (I'm too laid back to kill 
) to get that teir 1 power. Mostly becuase it would make my niegh unstopable powerhouse scrappers truely unstoppable! However I agree with rebel, it's just more of the same and doesnt suit scrappers.
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This line of thought has always bothered me. It works well for Controllers and Defenders (a bit less for Blasters, but it still applies) wherein a small amount of additional functionality in an area in which they are weak is contributive (re: damage, self buffing, personal survivability), even when it's been diminished by the APP penalties.|
Originally Posted by Rebel_Scum
Not for scrappers, IMO. APPs are supposed to fill in holes in the AT, not give more of what you already have. For scrappers, that's range and to a lesser extent control. Not more defenses and melee attacks.
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It doesn't work for Scrappers and Tankers wherein the APPs add almost nothing because a single mez/ranged power won't really do much, especially when you've got no inherent to make the effect desirable and the numbers on it are so bad that the power barely affects the weakest targets you could want for it.
That design mentality works incredibly well when applied to Controllers, Defenders, and Blasters because adding a few points of self support, survivability and damage(for Defenders and Controllers)/control(for Blasters) isn't actually added to a functional vacuum. Controllers, Defenders, and Blasters all have those capabilities natively. Scrappers and Tankers don't have any holds worth mentioning (Super Strength KO Blow is a hold, but I don't think that's why people like it) so they can't really stack up magnitudes to make the effects effective. Scrappers and Tankers deal better damage in melee so they're already going to be there, so ranged attacks are largely meaningless, especially when they do less damage for more endurance and animation time on slower recharge than almost all of their primary attacks.
Most Tankers find the APPs as largely unimpressive and, generally, only use them for an AoE Gauntlet taunt or set mule, if they even take them. Scrappers even more so. The idea that an APP should fill in holes in functionality is a flawed concept, especially from a balance perspective.
Actually, these powers all have a -end % at the end of each use, I didn't put it down yet, because I would like the people and the devs to decide how much. This set is a burst type set, where you can get a sudden boost, not a long lasting effect. And TY Umbral, and yes, this is based on the Four Guardians Myth which can be found in almost all Asian cultures. IMHO, Epic Pools were never meant to fill wholes, or else we wouldn't have another set of long range attacks for blasters, that's why its called a "Mastery" since you improve on your primary powers. And btw, we can tweak, add or remove effects to balance the powers.
- You can do whatever you want to my sword, as long as it does the job.
- RMT is a scam.
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I disagree. Scrappers and Tankers need next to no help as ATs. The APPs add a bit of flavor utility and some ranged attacks. For two ATs who can stand against Giant Monsters, AVs, etc. and not flinch, this doesn't strike me as particularly unfair.
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Originally Posted by Umbral_NA
Most Tankers find the APPs as largely unimpressive and, generally, only use them for an AoE Gauntlet taunt or set mule, if they even take them. Scrappers even more so. The idea that an APP should fill in holes in functionality is a flawed concept, especially from a balance perspective.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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You're missing the intent of what I said. The fact that Blasters, Defenders, and Controllers all get greater functionality and usefulness out of their APPs because the "holes in functionality" that are being filled for them only need small bits in order to be effective. Survivability powers do incredible things, even when there is only one and especially when they're using the self buff modifiers of Defenders and Controllers. Attacks do well when the AT is only barely short of a real attack string and the attacks are themselves better at damage dealing than the native powers.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I disagree. Scrappers and Tankers need next to no help as ATs. The APPs add a bit of flavor utility and some ranged attacks. For two ATs who can stand against Giant Monsters, AVs, etc. and not flinch, this doesn't strike me as particularly unfair.
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Controls do almost nothing when there is only a single one of them, especially when it's got a shorter duration and twice the recharge. Getting ranged attacks is virtually pointless whenever you need to be in melee to use your other 6-7 attacks, especially when those ranged attacks do less damage than the worst of your melee attacks.
It's not a question of "filling functional holes is bad". It's a question of "the method in which those holes can be filled is bad". You can't plug the functional holes of Scrappers and Tankers with 1-2 powers. You can plug the functional holes of Blasters, Controllers, and Defenders with 1-2 powers, especially when those powers are generating better numbers than the commensurate powers used by Scrappers and Tankers.
Because the Scrapper/Tanker functionality holes (which were assumed to be control and ranged damage rather than, as we now know, debuff and team support) can't be plugged with the quick addition of a couple powers, a different design mentality should have been applied to their APPs: rather than trying to support by diversifying power functionality (generally by giving powers that compete for animation time on the same level as their normal powers which are more effective), they should have acted as augmentation for the functionality already present. Debuffs, self buffs, team buffs, and other abilities that would actually allow Scrappers and Tankers to contribute more to a team with their APPs.
There is a reason that Body Mastery was chosen more than any other Scrapper APP for the longest time: it had Conserve Power and Focused Accuracy. Those were the only reason that most people took them. LBE is and was pretty much only a set mule, and Energy Torrent is decent but requires more power picks than most are willing to contribute in order to get it (especially since there are numerous other powers that compete with it because Scrappers generally already have enough in the way of damage dealing powers available much earlier and with lower opportunity costs).
It's even worse when you look at how the other ATs operate with their APPs. Defenders, Controllers, and Blasters can't wait to get theirs. Almost every Scrapper and Tanker I've seen will simply shrug their shoulders and move on. For Defenders, Controllers, and Blasters, the APPs actually add something beyond "here's a couple interesting gimmicks". They don't for Scrappers and Tankers.
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To be honest, my defenders barely use their APPs. I suppose I would if I took Power Build Up like everyone else. But other than that, they're pretty bleh. The only ATs I really look forward to getting APPs with are Controllers.|
Originally Posted by Umbral_NA
You're missing the intent of what I said. The fact that Blasters, Defenders, and Controllers all get greater functionality and usefulness out of their APPs because the "holes in functionality" that are being filled for them only need small bits in order to be effective. Survivability powers do incredible things, even when there is only one and especially when they're using the self buff modifiers of Defenders and Controllers. Attacks do well when the AT is only barely short of a real attack string and the attacks are themselves better at damage dealing than the native powers.
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| Controls do almost nothing when there is only a single one of them, especially when it's got a shorter duration and twice the recharge. Getting ranged attacks is virtually pointless whenever you need to be in melee to use your other 6-7 attacks, especially when those ranged attacks do less damage than the worst of your melee attacks. |
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| It's not a question of "filling functional holes is bad". It's a question of "the method in which those holes can be filled is bad". You can't plug the functional holes of Scrappers and Tankers with 1-2 powers. You can plug the functional holes of Blasters, Controllers, and Defenders with 1-2 powers, especially when those powers are generating better numbers than the commensurate powers used by Scrappers and Tankers. |
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| Because the Scrapper/Tanker functionality holes (which were assumed to be control and ranged damage rather than, as we now know, debuff and team support) can't be plugged with the quick addition of a couple powers, a different design mentality should have been applied to their APPs: rather than trying to support by diversifying power functionality (generally by giving powers that compete for animation time on the same level as their normal powers which are more effective), they should have acted as augmentation for the functionality already present. Debuffs, self buffs, team buffs, and other abilities that would actually allow Scrappers and Tankers to contribute more to a team with their APPs. |
Thermal Shield
Plasma Shield
Fire Blast
Thaw
Power of the Phoenix
That most certainly WOULD give the Tanker who took it another meaningful role in the group. But no one would take the pool, because they would cry that it does nothing for them. Witness the outcry over one power in Shield.
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| There is a reason that Body Mastery was chosen more than any other Scrapper APP for the longest time: it had Conserve Power and Focused Accuracy. Those were the only reason that most people took them. LBE is and was pretty much only a set mule, and Energy Torrent is decent but requires more power picks than most are willing to contribute in order to get it (especially since there are numerous other powers that compete with it because Scrappers generally already have enough in the way of damage dealing powers available much earlier and with lower opportunity costs). |
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| It's even worse when you look at how the other ATs operate with their APPs. Defenders, Controllers, and Blasters can't wait to get theirs. |
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| Almost every Scrapper and Tanker I've seen will simply shrug their shoulders and move on. For Defenders, Controllers, and Blasters, the APPs actually add something beyond "here's a couple interesting gimmicks". They don't for Scrappers and Tankers. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Howdy everyone! I was just at work last night, and because of all the silence and boredom I just thought up of something for scrappers. The idea came to me awhile back, but I can't find a good theme to attach them to. So when I found one I started cooking up stuff. So here are the fruits of my crazy imagination!
X Mastery (Still can't think of a good name, please help!)
I. Strong Resolve
Self 10% +Resist All(except Psi), 2% +Defense All(Except Psi) - For 1 min 30 sec
Comment: This power is just a complement for all the Defenses a scrapper may have.
Animation: Almost like the ninjutsu power of Kujin-Rin
II. Tiger Fury
Melee Moderate Lethal Damage, Self Minor + Damage(For 5 Secs)
Comment: This one is like a simple attack, a little slower, but with the Defiance like bonus
Animation: Like the one for Martial Art Cobra Strike.
III. Azure Sky
PbAoE Minor Cold Damage, Foe -Speed -Recharge -Tohit(For 5 Secs)
Comment: A simple crowd control for scrappers.
Animation: Starts like Fire Sword Circle but ends like Flash Freeze
IV. Crimson Blood
Cone High Fire Damage, Foe Fear, Self -End(30%)
Comment: Now this one I hope people would life a lot.
Animation: Starts like Flares, but spreads out like Flamethrower, but it doesn't sway!
This is just something that I have to let out, it's been bugging me
Please leave any kind of comment to improve this set. Ty
- You can do whatever you want to my sword, as long as it does the job.
- RMT is a scam.