Couple of Stalker Questions


Fusion_7

 

Posted

Having just finished my level 50 Widow, I wanted to try out a Stalker next as I did enjoy the melee type deadly attacks that my Widow gave me. So, I am starting with Energy Melee as my primary power set and for my secondary, went with Super Reflexes.

So my first question: As a Stalker you get "Hide" and based on the description it gives, it says "Unlike most stealth powers, Hide can be used at the same time as other Concealment powers, giving you even greater stealth capability." I was testing this out with just the "Hide" on and no one can see me and this was standing next to a 3+ higher level villain. Based on what I read in these forums, you might get seen if standing next to a AV or much higher level Boss but not sure about this?

So, with that being said, is there some kind of "scale" that will show you that if you combined your "Hide" with lets say "Stealth", it would give you maximum 95% invisibility and if you did "Hide" + "Superior Invisibility" would give you 100% invisibility to not be seen by anyone. Based on what I read, it seems this was nerfed awhile ago on previous issues to make it impossible to become completely invisible regardless of villain level?

And my second question: What would be the best Alt to compare a Stalker to? I've also read in these forums that a Scrapper is about the closest to this build. Thanks in advance to those that reply







 

Posted

Hide will make u invis to all the enemies in the game, with the exception of rikti drones and snipers i beleive.

Compare Stalkers in PvE to Scrappers, except with less survivability.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not_Epsilon View Post
Hide will make u invis to all the enemies in the game, with the exception of rikti drones and snipers i beleive.

Compare Stalkers in PvE to Scrappers, except with less survivability.
Hide will give you 150' of PvE stealth, once you level to the point where you're no longer capped at less than that (level 15 iirc). At 150' of stealth, you're invisible to any mob in the game that doesn't completely ignore stealth altogether (Rikti Drones and Knives of Artemis are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head). Snipers, with the highest aggro range/perception in the game, have 149' of perception - you can stand right next to one and they'll never see you coming until you hit them.

The stacking helps in PvP, where you can reach the stealth cap with Hide, Stealth, and a Stealth IO, meaning most ATs (VEATs being the exception) can only see you within 10'. Just be careful of those autohit powers that cancel stealth.

And yes, Stalkers translate moderately well to Scrappers, but with the opposite view on aggro management: a Scrapper will get one thing's attention and keep it occupied, while a Stalker can tell one thing, "Hey, look over there! A shiny!" and then stab them in the back when they turn to attack a teammate/pet. The damage is roughly even with the higher critical rate, and they're just as survivable if you think about how you're playing and don't just stand there and spam attacks. Placate is part of this, but so is the burst of Assassin's Strike - being able to decide exactly which mob isn't going to get a chance to attack helps - and the demoralize debuff it adds if something survives the hit: a 7.5% unresistable to-hit debuff is very nice for a defense set. But they have fewer hit points and a much lower hp cap, so in a "stand in a crowd and do nothing" scale, they're less survivable.


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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
Hide will give you 150' of PvE stealth, once you level to the point where you're no longer capped at less than that (level 15 iirc). At 150' of stealth, you're invisible to any mob in the game that doesn't completely ignore stealth altogether (Rikti Drones and Knives of Artemis are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head). Snipers, with the highest aggro range/perception in the game, have 149' of perception - you can stand right next to one and they'll never see you coming until you hit them.

The stacking helps in PvP, where you can reach the stealth cap with Hide, Stealth, and a Stealth IO, meaning most ATs (VEATs being the exception) can only see you within 10'. Just be careful of those autohit powers that cancel stealth.
So, to make this simple, what would be the best to combine with my "Hide" to max it out, "Stealth" or "Superior Invisibility"? I appreciate the nice numbers but not sure what you mean when you say 150' unless you mean 150%? I would also want to know where to view that stat 150' to know when I am maxed out on Hide? Would it be in the power section when it breaks down the percentages for each power set or would it be found somewhere else? Thanks much







 

Posted

correct me if im wrong but what i understood from his post id that hide alone is enough for pve but hide +stealth +stealth IO = pvp stealth


 

Posted

That is exactly right. I will not confuse you with further numbers, especially since I play with metric distances, so I will put it this way:
Stealth powers work directly against perception range. The better a stealth power the more it reduces an enemy's perception range when it comes to seeing you.
- The power Stealth, VEATs' Mask Presence and some powers who give +stealth as secondary effect are enough to run in circles around normal PvE enemies as long as you stay out of melee range. Snipers, however, will kill you all kinds of dead before you get that close.
- Invisibility from the stealth pool, Superior Invisibility and anything else that might grant a non-stalker "total" invisibility allows you to cuddle for hours with mobs of your choice. Snipers will still kill you dead from quite a distance, though.
- Stalkers' Hide conceals you even better than that. It is actually better than a scrapper or controller could ever be hidden no matter how hard they try. You can cuddle with snipers. Anything that ignores +stealth completely will still see you, though. You will hate Rikti Drones. I know I do.
- Other than that, only in PvP there is a chance for you to be spotted with Hide if another player has boosted his perception high enough. Add Stealth and those people will not see you... unless they boost their perception to an unhealthy amount. (Warning! Do not look into the sun! Permanent eye damage!) Add a +stealth IO and even people who have eaten all the yellow inspis in the zone, run Tactics, Heightened Senses and FA and have bribed a truckload of defenders to buff them permanently will only see you if you get into melee range. Others will just pretend you are not there, because they do not know any better. Plus, other than with running Invisibility you are still allowed to attack anything that moves or, preferably, does not.




If it has
eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusion_7 View Post
So, to make this simple, what would be the best to combine with my "Hide" to max it out, "Stealth" or "Superior Invisibility"? I appreciate the nice numbers but not sure what you mean when you say 150' unless you mean 150%? I would also want to know where to view that stat 150' to know when I am maxed out on Hide? Would it be in the power section when it breaks down the percentages for each power set or would it be found somewhere else? Thanks much
Here is the Paragonwiki link explaining how Perception and Stealth interact, and contains the levels of perception that you need for the various different mob types.

To view your current level of stealth, click on Powers on that tray, then Combat Attributes, and expand the Base section. Stealth Radius (PvE) and Stealth Radius (PvP) are the two attributes that you want to look at to view your current level of stealth.

A mob's Perception (base numbers shown in link) is reduced by your Stealth Radius (PvE). A player's Perception (base of 500, modified by additional powers) is reduced by your Stealth Radius (PvP). The (perception - stealth) is the distance that the mob or player can see you at. If this number is 0 or less, the mob will never see you until you attack.

Long story short, what to stack with Hide:
PvE: nothing, because it just doesn't matter - anything that can see you with it up will see you at the 300' PvE cap for Stalkers.

PvP: Hide + Stealth + Stealth IO will allow you to attack while at the stealth cap (1189' of PvP stealth, capped to 1143').


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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

Posted

Clarification: Stalkers are less survivable due to the lower HP, damage mod and lower resistance cap. However, due to placate, when soloing it is very possible to consider the two even in those terms, however in groups, the survivability difference is noticable.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not_Epsilon View Post
Clarification: Stalkers are less survivable due to the lower HP, damage mod and lower resistance cap. However, due to placate, when soloing it is very possible to consider the two even in those terms, however in groups, the survivability difference is noticable.
I won't try to argue and convince you one way or the other because I don't know what experiences you're talking about, but I will just say that I personally have never noticed any particular survivability problems, either teamed or solo. There are a few mitigating factors, though: the build is much tighter and doesn't develop until later, which could lead to differences based on the context of the discussion (ie, what levels are you comparing?), and I don't play resistance sets on Stalkers (also, the resistance cap is identical for Scrappers and Stalkers at 75%).

In my mind they break roughly even, and if you only notice the issues while on a team then you're doing more damage than the Scrapper due to a higher critical rate, plus you have teammates which help you to stay alive through the higher amounts of aggro (and it's really easy to "scrape off" aggro by fighting near a Brute and letting damage/taunt auras and/or AoEs pull them off of you).


Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
I won't try to argue and convince you one way or the other because I don't know what experiences you're talking about, but I will just say that I personally have never noticed any particular survivability problems, either teamed or solo. There are a few mitigating factors, though: the build is much tighter and doesn't develop until later, which could lead to differences based on the context of the discussion (ie, what levels are you comparing?), and I don't play resistance sets on Stalkers (also, the resistance cap is identical for Scrappers and Stalkers at 75%).

In my mind they break roughly even, and if you only notice the issues while on a team then you're doing more damage than the Scrapper due to a higher critical rate, plus you have teammates which help you to stay alive through the higher amounts of aggro (and it's really easy to "scrape off" aggro by fighting near a Brute and letting damage/taunt auras and/or AoEs pull them off of you).
Yeah I agree.

In fact, my Stalker seems to attract the least amount of aggro for some reasons. Mobs just choose to attack Dominator/Brute more than you.

A perfect example, if you are fighting an AV/Hero and if he is programmed to attack squishies, your Stalker will not be able to hold aggro no matter what! I learned this the hard way when I played my Ninja Stalker with a friend who is a Soldier. Silver Mantis would constantly attack him no matter how hard I tried to pull aggro to me. He even tried to run and not attack but Silver Mantis still attack him. That's how aggro-less Stalker is!


So I don't believe Stalker dies easier than Scrapper in pve unless you do something stupid.


What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.