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Actually, the DM/* portion of my DM/Regen did remarkably little in that fight against Silver Mantis. It was more the effective timing of my click powers combined with the fact that MoG gave me enough time to drop off all of those nasty defense debuffs. The ability to reset a defense debuff cascade ever minute isn't nearly as potent as the ability to completely ignore defense debuffs, but it worked for me.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
Okay, maybe I should have added "DM" to the excluded list. I might end up with a lot of fingers for only one hand.
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You try to fight Silver Mantis with a S/L primary (25% res base, ~60% with temp invul, ~90% while in Unstop) and tell me again DM doesn't matter.
In addition to that, I also meant to imply lots of other builds benefit a lot from SL and the tohitdebuffs. I've got no doubts a DM/Inv could drop her, for example, but I doubt I'll ever see the same feat from a FM/Inv despite Silver Mantis having no more resistance to fire than she does to dark, because barring exceptional luck for a long period the FM/Inv would have to use Aid Self and Mantis would eventually pop DP.
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I dunno... I expect that an FM/Inv could take her out. Capped HP and a ~1028 hp heal every 2 minutes would suggest to me more than enough hp/sec to allow capped lethal resistance to do its job. With roughly 150% +regen, that would equate to 33.67 hp/sec. With decent +def(s/l) (re: ~30%) Silver Mantis would need to deal more than 336.7 dps in order to take out that character, which, if I'm recalling AV DPS correctly, is a bit out of most AVs' league.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
In addition to that, I also meant to imply lots of other builds benefit a lot from SL and the tohitdebuffs. I've got no doubts a DM/Inv could drop her, for example, but I doubt I'll ever see the same feat from a FM/Inv despite Silver Mantis having no more resistance to fire than she does to dark, because barring exceptional luck for a long period the FM/Inv would have to use Aid Self and Mantis would eventually pop DP.
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Having tried to take on SM with 320% regen, 48% def and 73% S/L res, I can attest it isn't enough, unless exceptional luck. With 30% S/L def on an inv, you're not even going to last one minute, as her defense debuffing will bring you to about ~-50% in a matter of seconds after her first hit connects.
I wouldn't mind seeing somebody prove me wrong, though. I'd still ask him how many attempts did that take. 
Now would this said FM/Inv be allowed to horde up some wolves?
Was curious...
K now I don't really have a FM/INV, so I went in AE and droped Mantis on a mish full of wolves with my Claws/Inv... Been sitting infront of Mantis, 9 wolves and a spider for about ohhh 20 minutes now. Had to hit DP 3 times already in that span (And I still don't have any accolades). Now of course there is no way I could beat her down as I am only doing about 170 dps on this one and my Claws/SR that was at 190 could not even take her down.
Now I'm not really sure how much dps would a FM need to beat her but if the damage is there, then I think its doable.
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well got bored and stopped it at around 30 minutes.
Did record like 10 minutes of myself just standing there... ;-)
OK so here is the video for anyone that has 9 minutes and 24 seconds of their life to throw away... ;-)
http://www.wegame.com/watch/MW88_Man..._and_a_spider/
As Silver Mantis only appears in missions with arachnos, wolves are a bit out of the norm if you ask me... Granted I should have mentioned it, but in my mind I thought "Silver Mantis in a normal dev mission, or one that replicates one." You could herd tarentulas which is pretty much the same thing except they do fire sometimes.
How many defense do you end up with in this video ? 50% ? It's weird how she hardly hits you after connecting the first hit, but hard to tell as you don't monitor defense. I know she has some ~20% and ~30% defense debuffs on some hits though (resisted to 10 and 15% as an invul, but still), so I'm guessing you're either above the softcap or rather lucky.
Looks like you got her stuck in a AI glitch too, she never used build up in the parts I watched (did skip forward a bit though, so correct me if I missed it). I didn't even know that was possible without attacking constantly (like Powerforge discovered first). If it is possible to get her to not use build up without having to attack constantly, that does change things quite a bit - my own defeats at 48% def were usually after I missed the AV combo and then missed VS with its 2.4s animation, letting her pop BU and waste me.
Even with BU properly working I'm not saying it's impossible, but rather than it'd probably take so many attempts or such a focused build I'm doubtful I'll ever see it.
Though to be completely honest I didn't expect at all to see something like your vid. Nice.
Yall are gonna make me try to take her down again. Survival wasn't an issue for me. DPS was.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Oh, she used BU (I skipped too, but I saw it used twice), and almost always wiffed right afterwords. What's most puzzling is one of those times it was right after hitting him, so she had a fresh def debuff, BU, and still managed to miss. Maybe the build is s/l def softcapped with one targets, giving him around 55% def when surrounded (not counting the brief double stack).|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
Looks like you got her stuck in a AI glitch too, she never used build up in the parts I watched (did skip forward a bit though, so correct me if I missed it). I didn't even know that was possible without attacking constantly (like Powerforge discovered first). If it is possible to get her to not use build up without having to attack constantly, that does change things quite a bit - my own defeats at 48% def were usually after I missed the AV combo and then missed VS with its 2.4s animation, letting her pop BU and waste me.
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Of course, he is running 7 toggles (incl Maneuvers), so it seems like it wouldn't leave (as) much room for offense. Without that, the best one can hope for is a stalemate. (Which it seems he managed, defensively.)
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
As Silver Mantis only appears in missions with arachnos, wolves are a bit out of the norm if you ask me... Granted I should have mentioned it, but in my mind I thought "Silver Mantis in a normal dev mission, or one that replicates one." You could herd tarentulas which is pretty much the same thing except they do fire sometimes.
How many defense do you end up with in this video ? 50% ? It's weird how she hardly hits you after connecting the first hit, but hard to tell as you don't monitor defense. I know she has some ~20% and ~30% defense debuffs on some hits though (resisted to 10 and 15% as an invul, but still), so I'm guessing you're either above the softcap or rather lucky. Looks like you got her stuck in a AI glitch too, she never used build up in the parts I watched (did skip forward a bit though, so correct me if I missed it). I didn't even know that was possible without attacking constantly (like Powerforge discovered first). If it is possible to get her to not use build up without having to attack constantly, that does change things quite a bit - my own defeats at 48% def were usually after I missed the AV combo and then missed VS with its 2.4s animation, letting her pop BU and waste me. Even with BU properly working I'm not saying it's impossible, but rather than it'd probably take so many attempts or such a focused build I'm doubtful I'll ever see it. Though to be completely honest I didn't expect at all to see something like your vid. Nice. |
I'm at 45% s/l defense with 1 foe in range.
She did use BU numerous times in the span of 30 minutes, and I think she used it once or twice on that video.
Well now I would love to see a FM/Inv take her down .. ;-)
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Right on the spot here...|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
Oh, she used BU (I skipped too, but I saw it used twice), and almost always wiffed right afterwords. What's most puzzling is one of those times it was right after hitting him, so she had a fresh def debuff, BU, and still managed to miss. Maybe the build is s/l def softcapped with one targets, giving him around 55% def when surrounded (not counting the brief double stack).
Of course, he is running 7 toggles (incl Maneuvers), so it seems like it wouldn't leave (as) much room for offense. Without that, the best one can hope for is a stalemate. (Which it seems he managed, defensively.) |
Built more for defense, something I don't like to do on a scrapper but I figured I needed one.
The build still does around 170 st dps though.
Okay, maybe I should have added "DM" to the excluded list. I might end up with a lot of fingers for only one hand.