Change to Boxing/Kick

I have a few characters that could make use of Tough/Weave from the Fighting pool but few of them have any real use for either of the pre-requisites, especially as some of them are weapon sets that would have to redraw after using either of them.

To make them more useful could Boxing be changed to use exactly the same animations as Brawl? It's little more than a fast recharge filler attack anyway, and would at best be a slightly higher damage replacement for brawl for Brutes in particular - it would allow it to be used by weapon sets without causing redraw, and occasionally use the kick/shield bash animations where appropriate.

That leaves us with Kick - assuming it can't be replaced with something else entirely (a passive +HP and/or +max Endurance maybe) it could at least be made more useful giving it a significantly higher recharge and, consequently, damage than Boxing - say 6 or 8 second recharge - I'd see this as more useful for a non-melee character looking for respectable pool attacks, as currently Air Superiority is probably the only one I would consider.

What do you think?

*shrug* Most people just take Boxing and don't use it...

[ QUOTE ]
To make them more useful could Boxing be changed to use exactly the same animations as Brawl? It's little more than a fast recharge filler attack anyway, and would at best be a slightly higher damage replacement for brawl for Brutes in particular - it would allow it to be used by weapon sets without causing redraw, and occasionally use the kick/shield bash animations where appropriate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I cannot see devs changing a power called Boxing to (in some cases) kick the bad guys, sorry.

[ QUOTE ]
*shrug* Most people just take Boxing and don't use it...

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is precisely why changes should be considered no?

[ QUOTE ]
I cannot see devs changing a power called Boxing to (in some cases) kick the bad guys, sorry.

[/ QUOTE ]

So change it to something else - "Better Brawl" or "Generic Attack" maybe?

[ QUOTE ]


I cannot see devs changing a power called Boxing to (in some cases) kick the bad guys, sorry.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, "no kicks of any kind" is fairly modern (late XIX-XX centuries) rule, IIRC, before that a few vere used. And we still have savate/Thai boxing and I'm sure others boxing-like martial arts where kicks are allowed and common. That said I don't see them doing it either.

6 slotted kick with 6 KB IOs on a lvl 50 + lvl 1 outcast in Atlas = lololololol

Agree that the redraw should be cut for using it with weapons. But they work fine. It is a set called 'Fighting' after all, not 'Additional armour powers'
Besides, I like kick. Satisfying as a finisher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

[ QUOTE ]
Agree that the redraw should be cut for using it with weapons.

[/ QUOTE ]

Currently, the rule is, if you use a power from a different set, it causes redraw.

If they changed the rule for the fighting pool, they would have no justification for not changing the rule for all other sets as well, which would lead to an exponentially massive amount of work for BAB creating all the new animations.

[ QUOTE ]
Currently, the rule is, if you use a power from a different set, it causes redraw.

If they changed the rule for the fighting pool, they would have no justification for not changing the rule for all other sets as well, which would lead to an exponentially massive amount of work for BAB creating all the new animations.

[/ QUOTE ]

What a load of nonsense. This isn't Middle Earth, we haven't forged One Rule To Govern Them All. It's a simple case of just doing it and ignoring people like you.

[ QUOTE ]

Currently, the rule is, if you use a power from a different set, it causes redraw.

[/ QUOTE ]
?? Why no redraw on arch/TA then? (was in some patchnotes sometimes this year.) Some powersets being more equal than others? if you meant switching between weapon/no weapon powersets... Well, that's a technical limitation, not rule.

[ QUOTE ]
Why no redraw on arch/TA then?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you are using the same weapon.

[ QUOTE ]
that's a technical limitation, not rule

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, it's not a technical limitation, it's quite possible, it's simply a matter of creating an alternative animations for using power X with weapon Y drawn.

As there are an awful lot of power Xs and weapon Ys, that would be a huge amount of extra animations. Hence the rule.

Because, if you make an exception for the fighting pool, then how do you justify not doing so for Flurry, or Jump Kick, or for every other power that cause redraw? The answer is, you can't. You would have to do all of them. In an ideal world, no power would cause redraw, but in an ideal world there would be 500 BAB clone slaves chained to desks to create the hundreds of new animations for no money.

You can justify it by pointing out that while boxing can be done just by copying over the brawl animations, doing it for all the other powers would require 500 BAB clone slaves chained to desks to create the hundreds of new animations for no money.

I would not consider that adiquate justification, especially when you take into acouint that characters that don't use weapons, still find that Boxing sucks.

The devs would be weakening thier position for no real advantage, Boxing would still be rubbish.

What Boxing, Kick, Flurry and Jump Kick need is a real, significant buff, either in damage or secondary effect, that doesn't only benefit weapon users..

I had some ideas with combos, I'll post later if I have chance.

[ QUOTE ]

Nope, it's not a technical limitation, it's quite possible, it's simply a matter of creating an alternative animations for using power X with weapon Y drawn.

[/ QUOTE ]
Which is pretty much what "techniical limitation" means most of the time. (In an ideal world clever coder would just automate the process of creating alternative animations, and yes, that's quite possible.) But since the dev team neither has 500 BAB clones, nor even a couple of cloned procedural anim gurus, engine and anims stay as they are.

That's not a "rule" in a sense, say diminishing returns are a rule, - it's not a decision needed for gameplay, it's just technical limit devs try to balabnce things around, and get rid of it whenever possible.

The example doesnt only extend to boxing/kick. Ideally, they WOULD cause redraw. Even with things like DB, you can still punch while holding a sword.

As for weapon sets and redraw, one of the major annoyances for them is hte redraw, especially on Blasters and Corruptors. Given that it would help a lot of people playing the powersets, and encourage people to play them more, surely it would be good thing. For AR, for example, an animation where the rifle was held in one hand while the other did the second animation, much like is used with the temporary powers like throwing knives at present. Ame with bows. Flurry doesnt need changing, seeing as its uses both hands, as does jump kick. They do no need editing, as the logic behind their redraw is sound.

Most unlogical redraw ever? DB/Fire Brute, the heal causes a redraw. -fume-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

[ QUOTE ]
Because, if you make an exception for the fighting pool, then how do you justify not doing so for Flurry, or Jump Kick, or for every other power that cause redraw? The answer is, you can't.

[/ QUOTE ]

What a surprise, I have to say it again for the guy who doesn't bother reading stuff.

WE DO IT ANYWAY AND IGNORE YOU.

Putting aside that you'd have to be stupid not to notice that unlike Boxing and Kick, the other options of Flurry, Jump Kick and Aerial Supremacy are intrinsically two handed animations like Katana and Dual Bl-....oh right, it's you. Forget that, no worries.

[ QUOTE ]
the other options of Flurry, Jump Kick and Aerial Supremacy are intrinsically two handed animations

[/ QUOTE ]

Jump Kick two handed?!!!

It's not a matter of them not being able to make boxing not redraw, they clearly could, the point is, they WON'T do it because it would attract a lot of extra flack for the devs not doing the other powers, for absolutly no benefit BECAUSE BOXING WOULD STILL SUCK.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the other options of Flurry, Jump Kick and Aerial Supremacy are intrinsically two handed animations

[/ QUOTE ]

Jump Kick two handed?!!!

It's not a matter of them not being able to make boxing not redraw, they clearly could, the point is, they WON'T do it because it would attract a lot of extra flack for the devs not doing the other powers, for absolutly no benefit BECAUSE BOXING WOULD STILL SUCK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you ever taken/looked at Jump kick? Or is this another pedant rant.
Anyway, it doesnt matter that Boxing 'sucks'. In fact, its not that bad. Sure its not at Set standard, but its a blooming pool power. It shouldnt be. And it does more damage than Brawl, and has a chance for stun.

Besides, the answer is still the same. If they were to fix redraw, they should do it for ALL the powers that suffer from it. That way there would be no flak, and it would be QoL/updgrade that people would like.

Except maybe you

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

[ QUOTE ]
and it would be QoL/updgrade that people would like.

Except maybe you


[/ QUOTE ]

Of course I am in favor of removing redraw for all powers. And if not all of them, then the ones that have a real impact, such as the aforementioned Fiery Aura heal, should be the ones that get done first. I am simply arguing that removing redraw for Boxing would do little to rehabilitate the power, given that there are lots of players without weapon sets who still don't have a use for it.

Yes, I have tried Jump Kick, and I know what it looks like, there is no reason why you couldn't create a modified animation for it holding a weapon or duel weapons.

One thing that occured to me is that Castle has been over many offensive sets and made ajustments, taking animation times into acount. So far as I know the pool attack haven't been looked at since issue 1, and at that time animation time was not taken into acount when calculating the damage scalar.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and it would be QoL/updgrade that people would like.

Except maybe you


[/ QUOTE ]

Of course I am in favor of removing redraw for all powers. And if not all of them, then the ones that have a real impact, such as the aforementioned Fiery Aura heal, should be the ones that get done first. I am simply arguing that removing redraw for Boxing would do little to rehabilitate the power, given that there are lots of players without weapon sets who still don't have a use for it.

Yes, I have tried Jump Kick, and I know what it looks like, there is no reason why you couldn't create a modified animation for it holding a weapon or duel weapons.

One thing that occured to me is that Castle has been over many offensive sets and made ajustments, taking animation times into acount. So far as I know the pool attack haven't been looked at since issue 1, and at that time animation time was not taken into acount when calculating the damage scalar.

[/ QUOTE ]

Myeah, fair enough.
Tbh, I really hope that I15 IS a large overhaul. Theres a whole array of little problems and bugs that all add up to create some rather niggling things atm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Yes, please get rid of weapon re-draw. I just got boxing and un-like brawl it makes me re-draw my mace every time. It is incredibly annoying. There is no reason that it can't box with the offhand like brawl does. This really needs to be changed imo.

In this scary new Inherent Fitness world, I kinda like the fact that Boxing's more or less a useless prerequisite, as it's something I can take that's not going to require any slotting.

But I can see where "I like it because it's a useless waste" might mean it's seen as problematic, by some people.

It's such a shame that BABs left the company. He had such a passion for animation and, among other things, the removal of redraw from all weapon powers in cases when a weapon attack could be executed, but still leaving it in in instances where an attack couldn't happen, letting us draw weapons if we wanted to still.

This would have been an amazing change but, like additional Dual Pistols models, it looks like his leaving killed it dead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.