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Wait wait wait, so although you don't believe redraw exists, you think it has a noticeable effect in Thorns? Riiiiight.. nice logic there...
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;facepalm
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Wait wait wait, so although you don't believe redraw exists, you think it has a noticeable effect in Thorns? Riiiiight.. nice logic there...
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;facepalm
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My thoughts exactly...
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
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Praf you do make Mr.Logic look like Omar Sharif
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clueless
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When someone resorts to insults it is a sure sign that they have lost the argument, but just to humour you:
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BaB is actually saying using some of the SoA powers, specifically VG means you are maximising your effectiveness at the expense of "bane purity".
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BAB doesn't say you are maximising your effectiveness. He says you are attempting to maximise your effectiveness, but are scuppered by the redraw (he was specifically responding to someone who had tried to incorporate Venom Grenade into thier build and where now whining that the redraw made it much less effective than they had expected).
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try reading less like a text parser.
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You mean I should ignore what it actually says and just read into it whatever I want like you do?
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You think the redraw on Thorns isn't noticeable?
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Eh, no. Let me try and expain this a little more slowly. It could be I was making it a little to complicated. On Thorns, the draw time is included in the total animation time. This means that if you already have your Thorns drawn the time is added onto the end of the animation, so there is a brief pause before you can activate another power. This is how weapon sets used to work, however the pause was more noticable because the draw times are longer for weapons. However, all weapons sets added since Dual Blades don't have a pause between animations, meaning redrawing will slow your attack chain. Older sets are being changed, but Spines and Thorns haven't (yet) because the pause is much less noticable.
Of cause anyone who follows the US forums would know all this already, since it has been discussed extensively over the last six months or so.
Tell me, have you actually played this Venom Grenade wonder build? Why don't you post your build here so we can all see it? We promise not to laugh.
I really should do something about this signature.
I do think you don't have a clue about VG, since you said:
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you can no more make the debuff of Venom Grenade debuff perma than you can make every attack from stealth
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You're getting basic information wrong.
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You mean I should ignore what it actually says and just read into it whatever I want like you do?
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Yes, that is what I mean, I know it's hard but sometimes try to read with a sense of humour, irony, instead of as previously mentioned, as Mr. Logic. I thought you would rather enjoy the comparison. 
My point about redraw is it's definitely noticeable going between Plant & Thorns and I say that since I'm aware of redraw! No I haven't had a regular account for a couple of years so I haven't been reading patch notes too much, if you have one of your handy URL refs I'd be most appreciative. Plant/Thorns was a PITA to play because of redraw so it's not like I'm not aware of it.
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Tell me, have you actually played this Venom Grenade wonder build?
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It's very simple Praf, taking VG and using it with PR gives you more options...which is all I've said - it's better, I think, than going with a pure melee build. I think saying that is a good deal more sensible than most of what you have said about the bane (see above) and:
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If you want a real team orintated bane, I would take double leadership, Venom Grenade, and zero mace powers.
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Actually at the time you wrote that I assumed you were joking...but maybe you're serious. 
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When someone resorts to insults it is a sure sign that they have lost the argument
...
Why don't you post your build here so we can all see it? We promise not to laugh
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...ahem... 
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you can no more make the debuff of Venom Grenade debuff perma than you can make every attack from stealth
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You're getting basic information wrong.
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Yes, I was wrong, you can make the debuff from VG perma. If you don't mind the lengthy animation time seriously eating into your attack chain, making you DPS absoluty abysmal.
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My point about redraw is it's definitely noticeable going between Plant & Thorns and I say that since I'm aware of redraw!
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...But it doesn't affect your DPS. Quite correct, for Thorns. I gathered that's what you meant, although I can certainly understand why someone might think you where contradicting yourself when you said "there is no such thing as redraw" earlier.
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No I haven't had a regular account for a couple of years so I haven't been reading patch notes too much
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Then don't you think it would be a good idea catching up before trying to tell people who keep up with all changes and developments how to play? 
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Yes, that is what I mean, I know it's hard but sometimes try to read with a sense of humour, irony, instead of as previously mentioned, as Mr. Logic.
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BABs sense of humour can be a bit strange sometimes, but that looks like an entierly streight post to me. Or do you just assume that since you are never wrong, anything that you disagree with must be a joke?
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taking VG and using it with PR gives you more options...
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Yes, sure, it's handy to have if you can fit it into an increadably tight build. I don't see any powers I would drop for it though.
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it's better, I think, than going with a pure melee build.
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Sure, I would never make a pure melee build myself, I would always take at least one ranged attack for defense and utility, preferably Poison Ray. A pure melee build would maximise your DPS, at the expense of flexability and suvivability.
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If you want a real team orintated bane, I would take double leadership, Venom Grenade, and zero mace powers.
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Not joking. Pummel, Bayonet and Web Grenade are all excellent, and can be chained with VG without redraw issues. This would basically be a defender-type build. DPS aint so important, since you are depending on you team to do the damage.
I really should do something about this signature.
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if you have one of your handy URL refs I'd be most appreciative
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BAB explained it again yesterday. Handy URL
I really should do something about this signature.
I just been reading right thru that link.
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If Claws2 was released now, it would *still* be the absolute unequivocal top single target *and* top AoE performer of *all* the scrapper sets, by at least 20% if not more (unless you lock spines in a phone booth and keep slipping critters under the door).
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Spines AoE sub par to Claws?
No accounting there for an easier AoE/time I bet. If anyone needs to be in a phonebox Claws does.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Wait wait wait, so although you don't believe redraw exists, you think it has a noticeable effect in Thorns? Riiiiight.. nice logic there...
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"