Yegods, do we agree on something? 
I'm sure we agree on lots of things... just not how much Scrappers can contribute to teams!! 
(ok, NORMAL Scrappers....) 
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I'm sure we agree on lots of things... just not how much Scrappers can contribute to teams!!
(ok, NORMAL Scrappers....)
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Depends on the scrapper, and their playstyle.
This thread is funny.
SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"
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My veiw is that PvP is completely borked. If you want to seriously PvP, then AoE attacks / debuffs / whatever are seriously gimped compared to ST equivilants. And dont even get me started on solo duels. No PvP'er of a serious nature does so without a cookie cutter build - Ice/Energy blaster for instance. And then invariably chooses Medicine pool, Hasten, and Jump/Acrobatics.
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My Fire/Ice/Fire Blaster, Kat/DA/Body and, hell, my Fire/Kin/Fire can all do just fine in PvP thank you.
The reason AoE attacks don't don't work as well as ST is because, invariably, you are going for single target damage. AoE generally have higher end cost and recharge times for equivelant damage to an ST attack, so I'd say that point of yours was mute. Some AoE attacks are great in PvP, imagine a Fire/ Blaster taking Flares over Fireball because Flares is ST? Laughable. As for Debuffs? Debuffs are insane for PvP, debuffs are the main reason a Rad/Psi is sought after for team PvP. Debuffs negate Buffs, which is where a lot of the strength of a PvP team comes from. So no, debuffs aren't useless.
As for travel powers, y'know what, I love SS/SJ. I find the combination of high speed and high maneuverability absolutely fantastic for PvP and PvE. 90% of my toons have it, only half of those are in PvP builds and Acro is just sexy, KB sucks.
Team PvE is balanced because everything is usefull to a degree, there's always going to be a more efficient choice, sure, but that's not imbalance IMO.
Also Arch is dumb.
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Also Arch is dumb.
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But his clothes are so funny
Funny and flamboyant.
He surely shines in the crowd
wanna give me a shine DB?
SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"
Seriously, some of those cossies put me in mind of those Dyno-Rod vans.
"DayGlo" FTW! 
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In PVE AoE attacks are sometimes useful, sometimes not, like ST attacks. So there is some "Balance" in that varous ATs / powers all have their niche.
In PvP, AoE's are almost universally rubbish. There is a time and place when they are not rubbish. The time is never, the place is nowhere.
In ALL cases, and Ice / Energy blaster has a huge advantage over a Fire/Fire blaster. Balance my behind.
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Try fighting a Mastermind in PVP without AoE's. Fire/Fire will have a huge advantage over Ice/Energy there. So you see, there are times when AoE's are extremely useful. You think I go into PVP without Inferno or Fireball? Hell no.
Like you said there is a time and place for these things, you just have to know when to use them and when not.
*edit*
Also, good luck leveling a Mind/FF. Not really the most pleasurable experience, I must tell you . Personally I'd recommend something like /Kin or /Rad for the fun factor and that's from someone who has 2 level 50 FF toons.
All those PvP zones are just awash with Masterminds aren't they? I dont think Ive seen one for months. Dont PvP much, but I think most people would concede they are pretty rare in PvP.
And, having put my Mastermind in PvP myself, If ever I do (rarely) find myself facing a toon with one token AoE attack, I just move my pets way from me. Its quite easy to get them out of AoE effect and within supremecy range within a second or so.
I will admit AoE are good in that highly popular thing called base raiding. *dusts cobwebs off the part of the server dedicated to hosting base raids*
Actually there are several decent MM duelling builds.
Whilst they're nowhere near as common as Stalkers in Sirens you do still see them venture in from time-to-time, and they're definately among the more popular RV PvP Villainside toons. You'll see more /Dark, /FF and /Traps in the zones (possibly because they work well against many enemies?) whilst /Poison and /TA tend to be more suited for Duelling. Ninja/Poison and Necro/Poison were even something of a FOTM in the US a while back IIRC.
Personally I'm currently levelling a PvP-Capable Bot/Traps MM. I know that so far (at level 35) only Confuse powers or AoEs can ruin his day, he can completely wipe the floor with most single-target builds. Mainly due to heavy abuse of TPFoe (+ TP Self!), Webnade, Caltrops and Poison Trap...
One of my first ever zone PvP fights was on my completely PvE-specced Peacebringer in Warburg. Whilst farming nukes I came across a Ninja Mastermind who decided that I looked like an easy target. He started wailing on me, but after a (Pulsar + Seekers + Build Up + Flare + Dawn Strike) he didn't think I looked so easy any more...
Whilst AoE Confuse will also make mincemeat of a Mastermind -
AoE attacks?
Im not to fond of PvP, but do dabble occasionally for a laugh, so no expert.
But when on my Mastermind, on the one occassion I was attacked with an AoE damage (and was shocked), I simply spread told my minions to toddle off away from me.
Supremecy has a FAR bigger range than any AoE I know.
So you may get caught of guard with a sneaky fireball. Once. And then you wont.
The thing is, that you can either issue your henchmen "goto" or "attack" orders, or have BG mode on.
When hit by an AoE your henchmen will take more damage if they're in BG mode, and by telling them to scatter you'd also disable bodyguard mode. Whilst this would let your henchmen avoid damage from further AoEs, it would put YOU at serious risk of being two-shotted since you're no longer in BG mode and MM's HP is so low.
A typical Fire Blaster attack would see them laying down "Rain of Fire" or a few Fireballs on a MM, then if they get the MM to disengage BG Mode, hit them with ST attacks such as Blaze to finish them off.
The MM's only real counters are to lock down the Blaster (hold/mez/etc.) or run away. If they're a /FF they can also tell pets to attack and toggle on PFF, but PFF can be detoggled or bypassed with (Aim + Build Up).
Also any ST confuse attacks will work, not just AoE ones. Some MM henchmen are resistant to confuse and they're all easily resummonable... and it's really only the MM you need to affect with the confuse power. If the pets are on aggressive then once the MM is confused they'll start trying to kill their Master, and any Traps such as Caltrops, Trip Mines or Poison Trap will affect the MM as if they were an enemy... 
(The most effective counters I've found to confuse as a MM are to always run with most pets in BG mode when you're not fighting- follow DEFENSIVE- and never, ever, ever, EVER stand directly on your own trip mines! )
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Im not to fond of PvP, but do dabble occasionally for a laugh, so no expert.
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i honestly wudnt have guessed...
There are, I think, plenty of ways to counter. Teleport yourself away, move yourself away with attack target / BG.
this is however, going a bit off topic. Even if we say that AoE are effective against Masterminds, thats one AT out of 10 (or 12 if you include Kheld's).
I simply dont see how AoE is every going to be remotely efficient in PvP. And judging by every PvP'er Ive met playing PvE, or indeed in actual PvP zones, Im not alone. I have only see ONE AoE attack launched at me EVER in PvP (against my MM). And every PvP'er ive met in PvE has never taken more than one, at most, AoE effect (and normlly has none).
AoE Attacks aren't generally used for the same reason AoE Mez Effects aren't generally used.
High end cost, recharge, lower acc.
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Im not to fond of PvP, but do dabble occasionally for a laugh, so no expert.
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i honestly wudnt have guessed...
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Have no desire to be. But if I ever did go into serious PvP you can bet I would build my highly effective PvE toons in a complete different way and probably choose completely different ATs.
Tank: Ice / Energy
Scrapper: Spines / Regen
Blaster: Ice / Energy
Controller: Ill, Mind, or Grav / Kin, Rad, Storm
Defender: Kind, Rad, Storm or Dark / Psi
Brute: Energy / Energy
Stalker: Energy / Ninjitsu
Corruptor: Ice / Rad, Kin, Dark, or Cold
Dominator: Mind / Psi or Ice
Mastermind: Bots / Dark or FF
Couple of variations on some of them.
Gee, never see any of those cookie cutters in the PvP zones do you? Well, maybe there hidden amongst all the Stone/Ice tanks, Claws/Dark scrappers (and stalkers), fire/Fire blasters, Empath / Dark defenders, Fire / Stone brutes, Fire / Sonic Corruptors, and Ice / Energy dominators. And all the other ATs stuffed full of AoE? Cant move for bouncing into them in a PvP zone
Never see superspeed or jump / acrobatics in PvP zones do you? Perhaps your veiw is blocked from all the flying heroes? .
Aid self is pretty rare to, I guess in PvP zones? Maybe you can't see the green for all the Irradiates and Neutron Bombs those COrruptors and Defenders are slinging about?
However much you and I disagree on what PvP powers are good and bad, you dont have to spend long in a zone to see what ones are hugely popular and which ones are never taken.
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Tank: Ice / Energy
Scrapper: Spines / Regen
Blaster: Ice / Energy
Controller: Ill, Mind, or Grav / Kin, Rad, Storm
Defender: Kind, Rad, Storm or Dark / Psi
Brute: Energy / Energy
Stalker: Energy / Ninjitsu
Corruptor: Ice / Rad, Kin, Dark, or Cold
Dominator: Mind / Psi or Ice
Mastermind: Bots / Dark or FF
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i dont have any of those toons and manage to pvp fine.
i fail to see what u hope to achieve by talking a load of [censored] about a subject u seem to have very limited knowledge of
None of my toons have Aid Self. Well, that's a lie, my Grav/Psi Dominator at 25 (woefull damage) has it, simply to stop her faceplanting every other mob.
I have an Emp/Dark. She works just fine, thank you. Infact, if you go over to the PvP section and read the top few threads, you'll see her mentioned by some of the community as one of the best Empath's in PvP. I guess that's because I've got a cookie cutter build?
I have none of those Power combinations listed, I've PvP'd with my Ice/Ice/Ice Tank, my Fire/Rad Controller (with fly, OH NOES). I've used my Kat/DA. I guess I can use those because they're cookie cutter builds?
The closest thing I have to a "FoTM" combination, is probably my EM/EA Stalker (without a self heal). With Soul Mastery. Even ignoring the PPP, the combination isn't hugely common, and while it's highly effective, it was made the first day I6/CoV went live on the pre-order weekend, infact, she was originally Spines/EA during Beta but I was dissapointed by the animations, so I went EM because I'd always wanted to try it and the hilarious pompoms of doom.
Hell, I've even PvP'd on my Sonic/Fire Blaster and that's a pretty lousy combination in 1v1's because of the rooting time on Sonic combined with the PBAoE focus of the secondary.
You're saying that people gravitate towards good power combinations, no-one's arguing that people don't do that, but then, they do it for PvE as well.
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A typical Fire Blaster attack would see them laying down "Rain of Fire" or a few Fireballs on a MM, then if they get the MM to disengage BG Mode, hit them with ST attacks such as Blaze to finish them off.
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I prefer the more effective combo of Aim, Build Up, Blaze, Fireball, Inferno, CaB, Blaze. This will kill almost any Mastermind in Bodyguard mode. And I'm just Fire/, so just Imagine what a Fire/Fire can do.
Also, don't underestimate the amount of Masterminds running around the zones. Especially the higher end zones, like Warburg and Recluse's Victory. Masterminds seem to be gaining some popularity as PVP toons, ever since they came with Bodyguard.
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Tank: Ice / Energy
Scrapper: Spines / Regen
Blaster: Ice / Energy
Controller: Ill, Mind, or Grav / Kin, Rad, Storm
Defender: Kind, Rad, Storm or Dark / Psi
Brute: Energy / Energy
Stalker: Energy / Ninjitsu
Corruptor: Ice / Rad, Kin, Dark, or Cold
Dominator: Mind / Psi or Ice
Mastermind: Bots / Dark or FF
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i dont have any of those toons and manage to pvp fine.
i fail to see what u hope to achieve by talking a load of [censored] about a subject u seem to have very limited knowledge of
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It may be rubbish, I may be an idiot, but that dosent give you the right to insult me or dismiss me. Only disagree with me.
Im shutting up about this topic now. Its way off topic, and I dont give too hoots about PvP. It remains my opinion, from maths that PvP is borked and deeply unbalanced. You dont agree, fair enough.
LAWL @ u dissing empaths :P
AFAIK a Fire/ Blaster is generally preferred to an Ice/ blaster in high-end PvP due to the extra damage from Fire's DoT and slightly less resisted damage type (ice contains significant smashing content) and the fact that Ice Slows can be effectively countered by a Kinetic... but the point of ST versus AoEs is certainly true.
Generally NRG and Elec (and in some builds, Dev) are the only secondaries worth considering for a PvP Blaster. AFAIK the only time AoEs are genuinely useful is on Base Raids (which no-one does) and versus Masterminds.
Oh yeah, and nukes are meant to be great fun when another team is about to gather for "vengence"...