Medicine would be only good for yourself, as you have your pet heal in the poison set. Leadership is awsome with thugs, as it stacks with the enforcer leadership with 3slot defence.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
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Stimulant can tend to effects that antidote wont and aid other and aid self can help make up slightly for lack of a aura heal at times. Leaderships can tend to effects that antidote wont and stack with pets so that pets get a better buff. I might have both :P and forget the patrons.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
A /poison with medicine pool? Sorry, you won't have time to be your minions' carebear. The self heal just isn't worth the effort: Either you use Bodyguard and don't need it or you direct your troops from the back... and don't need it. (And make sure you take at least the armour from your PPP. Armour+Bodyguard = tough kill)
On the other hand Leadership is a must. The good old Assault+Tactics combination works like a charm and with a rez in your secondary set you might want to top it off with Vengeance as long as you team occasionally.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Im going to shoot for leadership on this one, but instead of going for Assault/ Tactics. I plan to go for Maneuvers/Tactics. I am hoping this will stack nicely with the Enforcers buffs, also it opens up the potential to slot IOs (specifically 4 slots of Luck of the Gambler yeah I know) Anyway thats my 2 inf worth .
@Boy Wonder
Quantum Flash - Ill/Kin Controller
Leader of the Legion of Heroes
ok thanks everyone...i went for leadership in the end...as it seem it be my only choice 
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A /poison with medicine pool? Sorry, you won't have time to be your minions' carebear. The self heal just isn't worth the effort: Either you use Bodyguard and don't need it or you direct your troops from the back... and don't need it. (And make sure you take at least the armour from your PPP. Armour+Bodyguard = tough kill)
On the other hand Leadership is a must. The good old Assault+Tactics combination works like a charm and with a rez in your secondary set you might want to top it off with Vengeance as long as you team occasionally.
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I do play one in bodyguard mode and assault tactics add damage output and accuracy. How much i and my guys get hit is completely outside of that. MMs at the front running in with Brutes is the best way to play. Standing at back directing is inefficient. Get aggro with all your hitpoints as much as possible so people like dominators dont. Most brutes i have seen neither have taunt or aura so would be pants for doms who miss and then get aggro. id sooner heal than remake and upgrade. Maneuvers def is only good if stacked with a -tohit or +def power of decent size.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Ah, I see you like the masterbrute playstyle! It's my favourite, too. 
With all the /poison debuffs I never need a self-heal when I am soloing (I find more green candy than I can use) and when I am teaming there is some sort of healing/damage mitigation around so I, again, don't need a self-heal.
Btw. what kind of brutes do you know? I know that most brutes take Taunt very late (if they do at all), but auras are great fun with fury. When my elec/elec brute did his first PI mayhem mission and one of the PPD-peacebringers tried his strongest attack, the Inascendent Strike, for 22 points of damage and my Lightning Field directly answered with a tic for 47 points of damage (closely followed by a deadly Thunder Strike) I laughed so hard that I wasted almost a minute of the time limit because I couldn't fight anymore... ignoring the tickling from those peacebringers' attacks. 
And I have to agree that Maneuvers is only good as 'icing on the cake' if you already have lots of defense. It completely pales before the thugs' equivalent and doesn't make any difference at all while Assault does it's job as usual.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Thugs aint hot on secondary effects, if it was then the assault and tactics effect of -fight duration would stack even better but what what multihit debuffs i have as a poison thug in terms of personal survival is largely in the -dps after the alpha strike and the only one of good recharge is called Neurotoxic breath. I find aid other costs way way less than alkaloid and gives a better heal. So if i am close to a thug its a lovely heal for low end, alkaloid is great for range and res to toxic to me but even if i use both in quick succession its better than the would be call thugs and then equip and upgrade them.
Aid other base heal 22.3% 6.5 end rechg 10
Alkaloid base heal 17.5% 16.3 end rechg 4
Call any thug 19.5 end
Followby equip thugs 16.3 end
Upgrade 22.5 end
Cost difference of getting a new thug out compared to healing them = 51.8 end with aid other or 41 end with alkaloid.
Whilst attack rate of enemy is reduced i think aid other is fine. Alkaloid could blow ya end bar in no time with such an end cost at low rechg and your not even fighting toxic damage.
Brutes i know properly, have auras, mine have auras early and taunt very early compared to most (pre 20 on 1) but i play mine on another server to them with my thugs and the one good brute i have teamed with on the server came from my home server, the rest were strangers in PuGs better built for duel PvP.
Poison is great on a single target and imo should be the best single target debuff set in game but i run into groups first unless teamed with 1 good brute on defiant who i know who is Fire/Fire, totally fearless and a bit hard to keep up with. But i dont even try to play well with that MM anyway and prefer to shoot things.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Good to see some decent advice both for and against. I think it truly is an either or situation, that may come down to personal preference and playing style. But for me one of the clinches is the fact that I am doing something extra with END, hence why I take leadership. Also I have to agree that I enjoy a more a Brutish style and enjoy getting stuck in thank the maker for the Sands of Mu any way for the record :
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Exported from Ver: 1.7.5.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://home.comcast.net/~SherkSilver/index.html)
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Name: Doctor Ichor
Level: 50
Archetype: Mastermind
Primary: Thugs
Secondary: Poison
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01) --> Call Thugs==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Dmg(3) Dmg(5) Dmg(5) DefDeBuf(7)
01) --> Alkaloid==> Heal(1) Heal(7) Heal(9) EndRdx(9) EndRdx(11) Rechg(50)
02) --> Envenom==> Acc(2) DefDeBuf(11) DefDeBuf(13) EndRdx(13) Rechg(15) Rechg(15)
04) --> Weaken==> Acc(4) TH_DeBuf(17) TH_DeBuf(17) EndRdx(19) Rechg(19) Rechg(21)
06) --> Swift==> Fly(6)
08) --> Equip Thugs==> Rechg(8)
10) --> Neurotoxic Breath==> Acc(10) Slow(21) Slow(23) EndRdx(23) Rechg(25) Rechg(25)
12) --> Hover==> Fly(12) Fly(27) Fly(27)
14) --> Fly==> Fly(14)
16) --> Call Enforcer==> Acc(16) Acc(29) TH_Buf(29) TH_Buf(31) DefDeBuf(31) DefDeBuf(31)
18) --> Gang War==> Rechg(18) Rechg(33) Rechg(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(34) Dmg(34)
20) --> Health==> Heal(20) Heal(34) Heal(36)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(50) EndMod(50)
24) --> Hasten==> Rechg(24) Rechg(36) Rechg(36)
26) --> Call Bruiser==> Acc(26) Acc(37) Dmg(37) Dmg(37) Dmg(39) Hold(39)
28) --> Paralytic Poison==> Acc(28) Hold(39) Hold(40) EndRdx(40) Rechg(40) Rechg(42)
30) --> Maneuvers==> EndRdx(30) EndRdx(42) DefBuf(42) DefBuf(43)
32) --> Upgrade Equipment==> EndRdx(32) Rechg(45)
35) --> Tactics==> EndRdx(35) EndRdx(43) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(45)
38) --> Noxious Gas==> Rechg(38) Rechg(45) Rechg(46)
41) --> Night Fall==> Acc(41) TH_DeBuf(46) TH_DeBuf(46) EndRdx(48) Rechg(48) Rechg(48)
44) --> Elixir of Life==> Rechg(44)
47) --> Antidote==> Rechg(47)
49) --> Vengeance==> TH_Buf(49)
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01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Supremacy==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
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I have a few palns for IO's - you know the usual stuff - Blood Mandates e.t.c. but on the whole would remain as is.
@Boy Wonder
Quantum Flash - Ill/Kin Controller
Leader of the Legion of Heroes
Sounds fun!
Unfortunately I don't know the Thugs/Poison combo first-hand as I have both sets on separate toons (Professor Lente Bots/Poison, Papa Sang Thugs/Dark), so I don't know how much healing is needed for the thugs in that case. Professor Lente and Papa Sang certainly don't throw heals like cheap confetti. Actually, both wouldn't have too much time for that as they are busy controlling/debuffing the enemy and juggling him with Air Sup.
As you may guess I like minimizing incoming damage... partly by maximizing outgoing damage. Well, I think concerning heals I am just a disbeliever. They are nice to have around, but overall they have less impact on my success than raw damage, buffs, debuffs etc... with the notable exception of my dark brute and my fire brute who both rely on their self-heals for maximum performance... although in their case it's again the brutal damage output I am after... Awww, hell!
And I have to agree that /poison is one of the best if not the best single target debuffing sets. You can reduce many EBs to mewling-kitten-status and solo them with ease.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Looking at the build there are some things that catch the eye:
First of all I find the pets' slottings a little bit odd but I guess this will be sorted with IO sets.
You triple-slotted Hover before Fly? I don't see why you would perma-hover, so I would rather have a faster travel power.
You seem to plan on playing some kind of machine-gun-debuffer with Envenom and Weaken slotted heavily for recharge. I don't know if this could work given the endurance cost, but feel free to try. I'd rather have one more accuracy in both powers... especially Envenom since it's a defense debuff and you might want to debuff someone with higher defense.
And as said before I doubt that you will profit more from Maneuvers than from Assault. Your Enforcers' Maneuvers is thrice as good as yours, so it's not that likely that you will notice a difference while a 10.5% damage buff is nothing to sneeze at... but maybe that's just me and my aggressive mindset.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Looking at the build there are some things that catch the eye:
First of all I find the pets' slottings a little bit odd but I guess this will be sorted with IO sets.
You triple-slotted Hover before Fly? I don't see why you would perma-hover, so I would rather have a faster travel power.
You seem to plan on playing some kind of machine-gun-debuffer with Envenom and Weaken slotted heavily for recharge. I don't know if this could work given the endurance cost, but feel free to try. I'd rather have one more accuracy in both powers... especially Envenom since it's a defense debuff and you might want to debuff someone with higher defense.
And as said before I doubt that you will profit more from Maneuvers than from Assault. Your Enforcers' Maneuvers is thrice as good as yours, so it's not that likely that you will notice a difference while a 10.5% damage buff is nothing to sneeze at... but maybe that's just me and my aggressive mindset.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Correct I plan to slot each of the pet set with IOs so I'm not 100% sure of the current slotting arrangement. On the hover front I want to activate it during missions (if the speed is good), but it will be slotted with each of the three Freebird IOs, for the set bonus and stealth properties. Flying faster is cool and all But it doesnt help me kick the dude in the nuts for more damage or more accurately for that matter, if you get my meaning.
Yes I agree I would like another slot of Accuracy, but I am assuming that the bonus from Tactics will navigate around this problem ? Finally I want to see what the balance is between Recharge / Endurance before I am comfortable with the slots, at time I find myself waiting from my key powers to recharge.
The joy of playing this set is the pleasure of seeing it evolve - I am also looking forward to the Bruiser/Noxious Gas combo (- eee that's made me chuckle)
@Boy Wonder
Quantum Flash - Ill/Kin Controller
Leader of the Legion of Heroes
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Actually, both wouldn't have too much time for that as they are busy controlling/debuffing the enemy and juggling him with Air Sup.
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My thugs poison that doesnt speak of the enemy as a "one off" so with only one real multihit debuff id like the chance to heal for the cost of less end than it takes for getting any one of my men back. The less end used in healing means more attacks to my end bar as well cos i like to shoot things. Me and the thugs have cone attacks and we do more damage per end from hitting many mobs at once
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The joy of playing this set is the pleasure of seeing it evolve - I am also looking forward to the Bruiser/Noxious Gas combo (- eee that's made me chuckle)
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Its 20 secs in every 112 secs as best and although i am one level away from it i see that as possibly situational cos id hate to use it when i dont need it and then need it. How well it will work with a handclapping brute i dont know but i can always skip that upgrade.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Well, yes, that's exactly the point: After the first wave of attacks there is usually only one or two mobs left standing, because minions tend to be eradicated very quickly by that massive onslaught. That's expecially obvious on CoT maps: Those narrow corridors are just perfect to keep all possible victims inside the AoEs and cones and by the time I have reached the Lt./Boss to start juggling him the rest is more or less dead already.
So, with enemies dead or under control there is not much left to heal for me.
And on another issue: Bruiser + Noxious Gas = unfair
You want to use this when you are greeted by the 'welcome commitee' after entering a mission and in every boss/EB/AV-fight.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Thing is your bots poison and thugs dark, not thugs poison, so its not quite the same. With bots you have bubbles and resistance and bots that heal eachother plus a repair as well as alkaloid. Even playing my dark/dark or my bots/traps and my merc/traps i see three different kettles of fish.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
well im just trying out a Thugs/poison build, and i was wondering, im at lvl 30 with some spare skill slots, so i was thinking...shall i get Medicine or leadership?? any advice from MM players would be very helpful!