I would like to ask, how do you see on little petition "changing the whole political enviroment"? At most, it succeeds, there'll be some speeches, maybe medals given, a wall or something put up. Things like that are forgotten in a day in real world, and they do not signify any change in actual matters. A nurse might get medal for being good at her job, there might be national Nurse Day, but they still would get the same crappy salary, and would still get the same crappy work hours. Often, in fact, public displays of gratitude are done instead of actually improving matters since it's more cost-effective.
Personally, I don't understand this reaction. Some people are running with a plot that they enjoy doing. You don't enjoy it. Why don't you go and do your own thing that you do find fun? If the ideas of what is fun differ that much, you probably wouldn't enjoy playing together much anyway, so no loss there. If you happen to have a friend who likes the plot, you can just not discuss that with him, and turn a willfull blind eye to the few remarks. Talk about something else. Do something else. Don't come to the forums and call someone else's plot a "half-wrecked car". Do no OBJECT on the way other people do their plots. Ignore them. Stay away. If you don't like a plot, don't take part, ignore it, but don't come to forums and try to tear it down.
Live and let live.
Also I'd like to point out that these kinds of plots come up ALL THE TIME. The most latest one was Zortel's Youth Offenders where it is defined that the City condones Orwellian experiments on metahumans.
Blackdove
[ QUOTE ]
I did ask that this not become a debate or discussion.
[/ QUOTE ]
But in posting it to a discussion forum, and actively requesting participation, you open it to all to respond to as they wish withing the terms of use of the forum.
I had no wish or desire for the original Heroes for People thread to become an OOC argument, but it happens. Ironically, perhaps, it was your post that was the first OOC post in that thread, and you have been one of the most prolific posters in criticising both player and character motives, to the extent of claiming Suzi White would be institutionalized (if you'll pardon the Americanism), and of claiming a desire to perform psychology experiments on players.
Well, its an open forum. You have as much right to comment as anyone else withing the Terms of Use of the forum. I would however expect you to therefore show the same hospitality and understanding to others.
It does sometimes seem as though you wish to steer these forums, and perhaps take the 'forum cartel' thing a little too seriously. I hope that is unintentional, as it generally has come across as very offputting to anyone seeking to do any RP without seeking your approval of the methods and means used.
[ QUOTE ]
Since you quoted my OP, you will have noted that I have OOC objections. They are, however, entirely based on the roleplay consequences of people trying to run a plot which totally alters the political climate (and even changes the architecture) of a city which they have no control over, and then asking anyone not interested to simply ignore it, and then banning anyone from commenting on it, even OOC.
[/ QUOTE ]
The only people who can actually alter the political climate within the game itself are the developers, and in general this EU forum only comes to their attention when one of the EU staff forwards stuff to them.
Obviously therefore, any post in the Roleplaying forum is about as likely to create an in-game change as any other, a chance roughly equal to the devs deciding to add a memorial to Jiffy Blakes somewhere.
This storyline is no more able or likely to change the political climate of the game than passers by in Galaxy seeing a group of super-heroes stood around playing with kittens, or an unconscious squirrel, while just a few hundred yards away there are muggings, rampaging zombies, and gang attacks on longbow forces going unchecked. (No wonder some characters decide that heroes are unpopular with the masses, despite the official timelines info saying the opposite.)
[ QUOTE ]
If I ignore this, I leave myself in a situation where my characters believe the city government and people think one way, while other characters believe it works differently. That's nothing to do with whether an individual character is involved in the plot, it affects every character whether they are actively involved or not, and without the permission or acceptance of the player.
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe we already have widely differing beliefs on how the city operates, as the decision of some players that their character lives in a city where heroes are widely disliked, and others belief that heroes are widely praised and honoured.
Reality is subjective to a large extent, and our perceptions of what is inherently true are often formed by social agreements. That is, common sense is usually only common to a particular society or social group. Another society can have completely different concepts that are 'common sense'.
On a more fundamental level, the official Timeline for the game makes clear that super-powers were unknown to the world since ancient times until Statesman and Recluse opened Pandora's Box and released the potential for super-powers into the world.
Any character who had super-powers prior to the 1930s is actually breaking away from the developer lead game reality. But so what? Its a roleplaying game, and while historians in Paragon may believe there were no super-heroes before the 1930s, it is perfectly reasonable that they would not have been aware of any that were not making global news.
After all, NCsoft kind of break their own reality in that regard by having Nemesis be a first-world war villain, thus earlier than the opening of Pandora's Box some years after the cessation of that war.
Its no biggie if a player wants to get around it. Just like one can assume that the use of lethal weapons to make an arrest are in demonstrating that the hero could have killed the villain, and forcing the villain to surrender rather than die once he realises his death would be certain. (Spot the old D&D similarity regarding hit points and why characters didn't have bits hacked off in each fight?).
[ QUOTE ]
You had the chance to let this quietly blow over, but you had to restart it in a way which means that your 'changes' cannot help but go through since no one could really object IC. You have changed the nature of IC reality for every charactr in Paragon City without any support for it in-game, and without asking first. That's no way to behave in an Open RP environment.
[/ QUOTE ]
Firstly, who are you to decide I should let this blow over? Seriously? Who are you to tell me not to RP my own storylines? If I tell you to let one of your characters die because I don't like them, should you end their storyline?
Please have a think about that. Nobody forced, or even asked, you to get involved with any of my storylines. It no more changes your Roleplay reality than plots about kittens or unconscious squirrels change mine.
Once you did self-invite yourself to participate in the story, even then nobody but you yourself decided how, and in what way. That's fine. That's the idea of open freeform RP. It is, absolutely, improvised by those taking part, within the spirit of good playing (i.e. not godmodding)
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but that's the way I see it. This is not personal, I simply feel that your plot is going to split what little general RP community we have left in two. I don't know or care whether that was your intention, but it is the logical outcome.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think sadly you may be right. There does seem to be a small element of RPers that feel they have to control every plot, and that all RP must confirm to their personal rules or be 'wrong' and 'bad'. They seem to stomp on other players and crush anything they are not leading. For them, non-participation isn't enough, and that's a real shame.
I like all players to be able to enjoy the game and be creative without trying to dictate to other players. From the looks of it, there is the nature of the split. I really hope it is one that people are mature enough to cope with by simply ignoring events they don't wish to use, just as you may ignore certain characters that simply don't fit with your RP setting.
It is a shame indeed that it could not have all stayed as IC roleplay, without so much OOC divisiveness, and indeed, setting up straw polls to rally players, rather than characters, to oppose an IC event.
There is an ignore function built into the forum I believe, just as there is built into the game. If you really want to ignore the storyline it is not difficult. If you instead wish to impose your standards on other players, that isn't a supported function, sorry.
http://www.savecoh.com/
Ammon pretty much summed up my thoughts, but in a calmer manner than I could have managed.
If a plot makes someone to think about quitting, perhaps the healthy option then would be indeed to quit.
[ QUOTE ]
For whatever reason, it caused so much controversy IC (and a fair amount OOC), that it was almost doomed to fail.
I'm not talking about the number of signatures on the petition. That's irrelevant. Sure, there were a fair number. And there are some on the new one, too. But the original was pretty much doomed to fail because enough people objected to the petition that City Hall would have had to pay attention to that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, and presumably obviously, the petition was never going to stop Statues being errected. As a player, there was never any intention it could do that. The City may have many reasons to errect new statues, and a petition is always just that. Governments at all levels frequently ignore the thousands of petitions they recieve each day in a country the size of the USA.
The one actual change it could make, and only for and by those wishing it to, would be a memorial day a bit like a twice yearly GG meet, where heroes who chose to be involved (and ignoring it is a simple as deciding your character's curent mission is too important to allow attendance, even if they support the ceremony) turn out to honour the 'ordinary' heroes.
That's it. Simple, effective, and just as fair as it was to propose the GG meet in the first place. For many players, it would finally add that feeling that they had changed something in the world they live in (because all those villains you fought are still out there being fought, and every threat to the world you took care of has arisen again behind you). It was simply a small, IC touch to feeling that one's character had some continuity within the city, and entirely opt-in.
This is still being proposed and discussed, just not so much on this forum, where so much OOC opposition and stomping on other player's roleplay has happened.
I don't recall the intentions of the soryline ever being a 'community wide RP project'. Indeed, I've stated many times that I was more surprised than anyone at just how many people took part. It was open to all, not all encompassing, and there is a significant and important difference there. Many posted to dissent.
Finally, in a city of presumably millions, which the City Council must represent, just how many votes do you think would be needed? I have always assumed that even if every hero in existance voted for the petition, it would still be a minority (although a very powerful and vocal one) of those the City must represent.
[ QUOTE ]
So, the plot creators have some intention to control my characters for me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Totally untrue, and already stated so dozens of times. However, it does seem that a few players want to control my player experience for me, and tell me what my characters may or may not do.
My character started a petition that (due to game mechanics) could never succeed in anything but creating IC player participation. I'm frankly quite disturbed at the levels of argument and sniping since seen. No wonder GG is apparently getting quieter when this seems to be the knee-jerk reaction to any new ideas or anyone else's idea of how they may play their characters by a relatively tiny number of people.
http://www.savecoh.com/
But everything you do seems to be designed to provoke a reaction then you act surprised when it does?
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I don't understand this reaction. Some people are running with a plot that they enjoy doing. You don't enjoy it. Why don't you go and do your own thing that you do find fun? If the ideas of what is fun differ that much, you probably wouldn't enjoy playing together much anyway, so no loss there. If you happen to have a friend who likes the plot, you can just not discuss that with him, and turn a willfull blind eye to the few remarks. Talk about something else. Do something else. Don't come to the forums and call someone else's plot a "half-wrecked car". Do no OBJECT on the way other people do their plots. Ignore them. Stay away. If you don't like a plot, don't take part, ignore it, but don't come to forums and try to tear it down.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not trying to tear it down. I think more power to them. They want to run this plot, that's fine.
However...
[ QUOTE ]
But perhaps most important of all, on the second day, your hard-working 'supers' shall decend from the skies just to say 'thank you'. Thank you for your support, or your information, or the various other ways you have helped them help you
[/ QUOTE ]
How is this going to be enforced? Is it compulsory? Will my hero be ridiculed for not taking part, just because I choose not to take part in this plot?
Remember, this is, in the words of the plot creator a "Community Wide Plot". That mean that they, without my permission or desire, have unilaterally decided to involve me and my toons. I've not yet seen any other plot run in this entire game that in the very first post informs me that, regardless of whether I choose to ignore it or not, this is going to happen in the game world, and not just affect the toons involved, but the city in which those toons live.
You're right about the likely impact. Not very much. So what? That's got nothing to do with the fact that, on the basis of this plot that you support, I could create a "Community Wide Plot" tomorrow in which the Hero Register is lost, and suddenly every hero in the game is a wanted criminal. Or I could create a "Community Wide Plot" in which every hero with a Mutant origin contracts a mysterious virus that kills them all in a week.
Sure, people have a right to ignore either of those. But "Community Wide" suggests that the entire RP community in the game supports whatever result the GM of the plot finally settles on and that the entire community will accept it as canon. This is clearly not the case.
And the choice of such a controversial issue for a "Community Wide Plot" is, IMO, a poor one.
I couldn't care less about the plot. But someone has decided that they are going to GM the entire RP community in CoH and I object to that.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
Wow! Talk about over-analysation.
The way I see it, get invovled, or don't. How is someone coming around with a petition to sign getting in your face? Or even forcing your hand to get involved? I walk straight past in the street in Real life if I don't like the look of a petition. And if anything comes of said petition, for example if a war memorial was built, if I disagreed with it, I wouldn't visit it... it's simple but things in life and by extension RP life happen that we don't want to get invovled with so if we're sane we don't. Quit, getting so knit-pickety, everyone!
Start your own storyline if you don't wanna get involved with this one mebbe? Just an idea, flex those lovely thought muscles for something positive and up-lifting as opposed to the exact opposite however well veiled in "I don't wanna upset anyone" style comments it may be.
Oh I didn't read page 3 of this thread where everyone said what I just did. Nevermind... My final thought is that if you can't play nice in the community sandbox nicely, you shouldn't play in it at all.
Cheer up it's only entertainment! 
It takes Chaos to move the world to Action.
Yeah. I totally agree, if you people don't wanna get involved in a plot just ignore it instead of [censored] about it.
In the words of Ms Swan: You need to take a chill pill, you know?
[ QUOTE ]
This is still being proposed and discussed, just not so much on this forum, where so much OOC opposition and stomping on other player's roleplay has happened.
I don't recall the intentions of the soryline ever being a 'community wide RP project'. Indeed, I've stated many times that I was more surprised than anyone at just how many people took part. It was open to all, not all encompassing, and there is a significant and important difference there. Many posted to dissent.
[/ QUOTE ]
Go for it! Do the plot! I think it's a great idea! Just don't tell me that it's "Community Wide"! Which, by the way, you did. I direct your attention to the OOC section of the original post in "Heroes Among People". If you find any of what I've said to be "stomping on other player's roleplay", please, tell me.
You're the one who has basically invoked the entire RP community in this game for this plot. And when someone says "I don't think you should be doing that", you claim that they're stomping on your creativity.
[ QUOTE ]
Finally, in a city of presumably millions, which the City Council must represent, just how many votes do you think would be needed? I have always assumed that even if every hero in existance voted for the petition, it would still be a minority (although a very powerful and vocal one) of those the City must represent.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're absolutely correct. There's no way that every hero together could be a political force if the civilians don't support them. But, and again I direct your attention to the first post in the "Heroes Among People" thread, you have decided that this is "Community Wide Plot", and you have decided that you are going to GM it. Go ahead and GM a plot if you want, I'm never going to say anything about that unless you go totally out of whack with canonical references, but you have, as I said, unilaterally decided to GM the RP community, and you are somehow surprised when people don't like that.
[ QUOTE ]
My character started a petition that (due to game mechanics) could never succeed in anything but creating IC player participation. I'm frankly quite disturbed at the levels of argument and sniping since seen. No wonder GG is apparently getting quieter when this seems to be the knee-jerk reaction to any new ideas or anyone else's idea of how they may play their characters by a relatively tiny number of people.
[/ QUOTE ]
I shall state it again. You have decided to GM this plot. You have said that this plot affects the entire RP community whether they like it or not. You have not, at any point, despite alluding to it on occassion, stated that this is NOT going to be a "Community Wide Plot", and thus to me your intention appears to be to continue it in that vein.
All I'm really asking for is clarification, and you seem to think I'm trying to ruin your fun.
Allow me to ask a simple question:
Do you, or do you not intend to GM an RP plot that affects the entire CoH RP Community? Yes or no.
If the answer is yes, you and I are going to come to blows.
If the answer is no, then I respectfully suggest that you revise your plot, again, and remove that implication.
Edit: Note to self - PRETENDY FUN TIME GAMES. AKA, some person calling themself Ammon and pretending to be a super hero is trying to get a non-real character called Richard Huntington to pay attention to something that has no impact on anything whatsoever. I am now offically laughing this off.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
[ QUOTE ]
Go for it! Do the plot! I think it's a great idea! Just don't tell me that it's "Community Wide"! Which, by the way, you did. I direct your attention to the OOC section of the original post in "Heroes Among People".
[/ QUOTE ]
Uh, okay... Just because it seems to be couple of magical words that are the cause of your discontent with this, I'll quote the "Heroes Among People" thread, the first OOC paragraph:
"It is probably difficult to avoid this ongoing plot because it seems a large part of our roleplaying community has taken enough interest to participate, but also because the nature of the story could politically affect the world you roleplay in permanently and that could be deemed as God Moderating across the community. However, I argue that anyone who wishes to can simply ignore both the process and the outcome of this community-wide plot."
So yes, indeed, words "community-wide" were used... in sentence that said you could ignore it!'
[ QUOTE ]
I shall state it again. You have decided to GM this plot. You have said that this plot affects the entire RP community whether they like it or not.
[/ QUOTE ]
Complete untrue, see quote above.
If that was all that your objections were based on, and it is now proved to false assumption and/or strawdoll, are you now content that the plot is fine and you can, indeed, ignore it and move on?
Blackdove
Blackdove.
Not even going to respond.
No point.
Plot ignored.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
[ QUOTE ]
Just don't tell me that it's "Community Wide"! Which, by the way, you did.
[/ QUOTE ]
It is community wide :P That doesn't mean the whole commmunity has to take part, it means they can take part :P
For instance, if my street runs a community bake sale, it doesn't mean I have to part take. It means I can part take. Your misunderstanding the term. Same as in RL they make a country wide project, doesn't mean you have to do it, but you can no matter where in the country you are.
Normally you just, wha,t RP with your friends? So only your friends can part take, or your SG, or your Click, or whatever. This one anyone in the whole of union, be it friend, enemy, part-timer, full imersion, IC mission only, stranger new comer, olg guard, however can take part if they wish .
Thats all Community Wide means
Sheesh!
[ QUOTE ]
However, I argue that anyone who wishes to can simply ignore both the process and the outcome of this community-wide plot."
[/ QUOTE ]
i would say this, while acknowledging that people can and will ignore the outcome, does say it is a community wide plot and that people must choose to ignore it, rather than choose to join in.
And for me that a problem, surely the point of plots with in the world is to make something for people to Join in on not exclude people based on what they think of heroes mixing in to politics.
Perhaps it should of been stated as "open to the community as a whole!"
[ QUOTE ]
Lastly, nobody is perfectly skilled and although we are confident in our ability to moderate this plot accurately, if you notice a flaw in the story or an incorrect fact, or simply wish to critize my (I can't speak for the others) moderating skills, do send us a PM. Thank you for reading this, I hope you make of this plot all the fun you can.
[/ QUOTE ]As said by Pious.
Why do you think he made that statement? I can see why a lot of people can see the need to have legal advice on standby before posting anything these days.
Starting a thread to ask who isn't going to participate in something but not actually wanting to know why, could have just as easily been accomplished by literally seeing who doesn't respond. Im no psychologist but I would say the thread was deliberately started to solicit discussion.
However discussion is good. It was taking onboard of some of the criticisms of Heroes for People that led to my own IC damage control post with Vigilante Storm. That post was taken aboard by several others and now kind of sits at the core of Heroes among People.
Rather than over criticise and over analyse, how about using role play experience to help, advise, and encourage creativity!
From an unbiased outsider's point of view, I saw the thread as a case of wanting to know who wasn't taking part, so that the OP (and others interested) could see who and whose characters would not be involved, and then OK to RP with as conflicting plot-related 'evidence' wouldn't be an issue.
Run-on sentence, sorry.
I would like to take this opportunity to, as has been pointed out to me, apologise to Ammon for inadvertantly linking him to things he has not said.
It is never my intention to do such as this, and I am most chagrined to find that I have. So, I'm sorry for that, Ammon. Your points to me have been cogent and relevant, and I appreciate them. I may not always agree with what you say, but that's another matter, isn't it? (Oh, and I'm assuming you're male. If you're not, sorry for that, too!)
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
ok
1) I'm still a newbie to the forums and the game and perhaps i shouldn't take what Ravenswing said personally. But being told it was about which 'players' were not getting involved instead of which 'characters' (in bold) seemed like a go at my approach.
Just because I (the player) may be involved with one character (although now rather indirectly) does not mean my other character is involved. I was merely explaining that it does depend on the character for me as to whether i'm involved in this plotline and giving the reasons why each character may or may not be involved.
There was no need for sniping comments and highlighting in bold IMO, that just made me feel like there are parts of the community which dislike new RPers (I can imagine the Doc isn't a popular character on the forums due to his eccentric and villainous nature).
2) All this Mudslinging is doing us no good on the community as a whole. We're a small band of RPers from what i can tell so hating each other and splitting people into factions is just going to make the community that much smaller. I enjoy RPing on CoX...i enjoy playing CoX...i'd rather not have to go back to the boredom of sitting there waiting 4 hours to find a group for a dungeon on WoW (i'm in a very small guild).
So please, to use two phrases, "let sleeping dogs lie" and finally, "may we have peace in our time."
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
Ah, good old Voltaire, who said: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" 
. He's always been one of my favourites for that quotation, and the philosophical view it defends and champions.
Your (extremely gracious) apology is fully and warmly accepted. It was an easy mistake to make, because my character was named in that post and thread referred to, so no problem at all.
I loved the link to the Pretendy Fun-Time Games site Shadowe posted above - recommend everyone catch it. And for those who missed US Senator Ted Stevens explaining how the "interweb" works "like a series of tubes", that too is hilarious: http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/497 Please do listen to it, it is well worth it. Scarily, this guy voted in the Senate about how the internet will be legislated! It's mocked a lot in the link Shadowe posted.
http://www.savecoh.com/
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to know how many people out there do not intend to take part in the Heroes Among Us (or whatever) plot? If it's as few as I think it is, I'll be quitting the game in all likelyhood.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have an entirely OOC objection to plots like this, and this one in particular, and being forced to take part in it or do no roleplaying leaves me with little option.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm - I'm not entirely sure what the big gripe is about a plot that someone else is doing.
I'm also not entirely sure of the validity of claiming that either it will force someone to quit a game; or indeed being forced to participate or face no roleplay.
The more I think about it, this thread seems to have been designed purely for the purpose of trying to get the plot shut down to the detriment of those who want to run it and play it. I'm almost 100% sure that if someone were to respond to this that I'll be told that everyone's opinion is different and that I've seen it the wrong way but, to be honest, that still ain't gonna change how I feel.
The main purpose of my posting this is to clarify that I feel it a terrible shame that what, for all intents and purposes is supposed to be a fun game with an open-RP environment, is often derailed in the name of 'RP-proper' by people who do think it's their right to criticize everyone else and not have anyone come back to them on it.
Well, controlled rant over. I will enjoy seeing how this plot turns out - perhaps it'll give me some ideas to fire my imagination up for future stories, plots and experience.
Locking this at the request of the original poster.
Okay, I'm going to step up to the plate and point something out.
The original petition failed.
For whatever reason, it caused so much controversy IC (and a fair amount OOC), that it was almost doomed to fail.
I'm not talking about the number of signatures on the petition. That's irrelevant. Sure, there were a fair number. And there are some on the new one, too. But the original was pretty much doomed to fail because enough people objected to the petition that City Hall would have had to pay attention to that.
So, what happens after that?
Oh, someone comes out and creates it again. OOC. Oh, it makes sense IC for a revised petition. I'm not going to deny that. In fact my characters proposed as much.
But there was OOC controversy surrounding the original petition and the plot creators knew it and they decided to go ahead again anyway.
So, while I agree that the journey is the interesting thing, not the destination (at least as far as RP is concerned), we already had a crash on this trip, and the plot creators have decided to just get back in a half-wrecked car and carry on.
That, combined with the changes to the text of the petition, mean that there is actually unlikely to be anyone who would refuse to sign it IC.
Now, in my mind, the implications of this are that the plot creators are going to make the petition succeed. Sure, City Hall might not be able to implement it. But in the end it appears to me that the plot creators have decided on a political future for heroes in Paragon that is inevitable. And if I don't agree with the direction it's taking, I can't argue.
So, I object to the creation of this petition as a 'community wide RP project' because it's not. But it affects my characters whether I want it to or not. Sure, it's a fun plot. But when I turn round and say IC 'no such petition was presented', what are the plot creators going to say? Why do I have to acknowledge it? Even the Requiem War arc run by Doc T last year could effectively be ignored by people not interested in taking part.
But if this petition succeeds, and City Hall agree to it, what happens when my hero refuses to acknowledge 'Hero Day'? Not refuses to take part, that's his right, but refuses to acknowledge that it even happens? Am I splitting the community? Why does the blame fall on me, when it could have been avoided by allowing the original plot to just finish? IIRC the proposal on the plot thread says something along the lines of 'Heroes will spend time in the community on the second day'. Are they going to be forced? I don't want to be forced into anything. Ever. And I shudder to think of what the criminals will get up to while the heroes are all elsewhere.
So, I object to the recreation of this plot. Because it looks to me as though the plot creators are trying to potentially force me into doing things I have no interest in doing.
There are three possible outcomes from this petition:
1) It succeeds completely. Sorry, I'm not interested, for all the reasons given above.
2) The petition succeeds but it gets stuck in City Hall. *shrug* Life goes on, nothing changes.
3) The petition fails. Again. *shrug* Life goes on, nothing changes.
The only reason I can see for the recreation of this, after number 3 already happened, is to make option 1 or 2 occur. Unless the plot creators can assure me that option 2 is going to be the end result (I doubt they will do that, to be honest, simply because knowledge of the outcome of a plot spoils the plot), that means that they have some intention of making option 1 come to pass.
So, the plot creators have some intention to control my characters for me. To control the city in which my characters live. Possibly to force my characters into doing things that they wouldn't and I don't want them to do.
There was an OOC disclaimer in the revised petition thread that it may look like god-modding. Maybe that point should be revisited. If something looks like god-modding, would you perhaps consider that it will be percieved as god-modding by people? And we all know how RPers feel about god-modders. In fact, that disclaimer near as damnit says 'We're going to control the political situation in Paragon for a while, and if you don't like it, tough'. I think the petition is a wonderful idea. I think it being adjudicated by players is a terrible one. The original plot was a good one, in that the petition was created and things ran. Now we have people GMing the plot and deciding what happens as a result of it. Not just 'when the petitions are presented to City Hall' or any of the objections that were raised in the previous plot. But actually deciding whether this happens or not. Whether we get 'Hero Day'.
Perhaps I'm in a bad mood today, but I don't think players should make decisions for such a major group of NPCs as the City Council.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.