Ninjitsu - Danger Sense - End usage

Just have to ask here on the trustworthy boards

what is the "real" Endusage on Danger Sense? my planner says 0.36 nofuture says 0.18 i really cant believe either of them :P 0.36 seems horribly high and 0.18 far too low.

gogo super forumites!

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Just have to ask here on the trustworthy boards

what is the "real" Endusage on Danger Sense? my planner says 0.36 nofuture says 0.18 i really cant believe either of them :P 0.36 seems horribly high and 0.18 far too low.

gogo super forumites!

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AFAIK, they're about the same as Super Reflexes "EPS" wise, as the powersets have very lil difference, other than the specifics the powers do themselves.

well i know that the first toggle in Ninjitsu is the same as the SR toggles, but since Danger Sense represents 2 SR toggles (if you just compare what they do) i'd like to have a more precise figure on it. if it really is as high as 0.36 (against the other one being 0.26, same as SR) i'd probably want an extra End Red in that one.

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Just have to ask here on the trustworthy boards

what is the "real" Endusage on Danger Sense? my planner says 0.36 nofuture says 0.18 i really cant believe either of them :P 0.36 seems horribly high and 0.18 far too low.

gogo super forumites!

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Pay attention to the activation time. Nofuture says 0.18 for 0.5 seconds, so for 1 second it makes 0.36.. Which is afaik the correct one, 0.36 per second.

ah okay, didnt even think about that thnx for helping me clear it out at least a bit will try to get that extra End Red in there at some point

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ah okay, didnt even think about that thnx for helping me clear it out at least a bit will try to get that extra End Red in there at some point

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My own 50 Stalker (EM/Nin) has 2 EndReds in his main 2 toggles (not inc. Hide) and he does ok with that one..

so 3 DEF/2EndRdx shud be fine for you, bro.

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My own 50 Stalker (EM/Nin) has 2 EndReds in his main 2 toggles (not inc. Hide) and he does ok with that one..

so 3 DEF/2EndRdx shud be fine for you, bro.

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now that is a fortunate coincident, mines em/nin

and i have a new little question concerning the endurance, this time overall.

I've been fiddeling around with the planner, trying to get together a build that will have all the essentials at lvl 30 (for SC PvPing) and i've found that it just cant be done with wanting Stamina. so the question is, how dreadful would endurance be without Stamina?

*Edited for new subject*

Stamina is usually something you should get, but with the stalker build being packed as it is, I can actually think of some builds of the top of my head, working just fine in SC w/o Stamina (carrying some Blues with ya being implied).

For everybody that is new to stalkers and is thinking about playing an EM/Nin I can only say: go on the American Boards and look for Elernets Builds, he is the most skilled EM/Nin player I have so far seen, and is current Build (I think it is still i7 on the US-Boards) is actually w/o Stamina as he had the same probs as you do.

I play EM/SR Stalker and I pretty much used Elernet's Build to optimize it for my needs as /SR.

Kaiser

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Stamina is usually something you should get, but with the stalker build being packed as it is, I can actually think of some builds of the top of my head, working just fine in SC w/o Stamina (carrying some Blues with ya being implied).

For everybody that is new to stalkers and is thinking about playing an EM/Nin I can only say: go on the American Boards and look for Elernets Builds, he is the most skilled EM/Nin player I have so far seen, and is current Build (I think it is still i7 on the US-Boards) is actually w/o Stamina as he had the same probs as you do.

I play EM/SR Stalker and I pretty much used Elernet's Build to optimize it for my needs as /SR.

Kaiser

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great info there bud, thnx alot, gonna go look for his post right away

hmmm, i've taken stuff into some more serious concideration and i've decided to reroll all together and make it em/sr instead, i have another /sr stalker and i think it works out very nicely for my playstyle and such, and having to plan/re-plan drop and fiddeling around with a build too much just takes the fun out of it for me. thnx for the advice i got from ya though, very nice

If you wish to get some input on my PvE-Build - makes it incredibly more easy to level your stalker (my experience is that stalkers usually don't do well with a PvEvP-Build, my PvP Respec is planned for 50!) - or my later PvP-Build (as I said, based on Elernet's conclusions and experiences, but optimized for /SR), I will be happy to send you a PM with both builds and some advice on it.

Basically I have to say that EM/ is extremely endurance-hungry and even with a endurance-reduction-heavy PvE-Build I run out of Endurance often enough. That is why I am not going to follow Elernet in that direction of not putting in Stamina either in PvE or PvP.

Nonetheless it seems quite evident that the Stalker's wisest choice is EM/. My buddy is playing a Claw/ Stalker and even though Elernet's opinion is that Claw is in the middle of EM/ and MA/, he has a substantially lower DPS and his Kill-Ratio compared to mine... Well he would put it this way: Let's not talk about it.^^
I believe that everything else is less effective than EM/.
Spine/ would have been a nice option though the latest nerf just cancelled out the most appealing effect of the Attack-Set.

Kaiser

PS
About the fiddling around with Builds etc. I would have to say, I spend as much time in my Builder as I do ingame, trying to figure out the best PvE or PvP Build.

My level 32 stalker is EM/SR. There's no way I can fit in Aid Self (+1 other to get it) and Stealth and Invisibility which I would like to. However, Ninjutsu has an inbuilt heal so you save a slot at least and always seemed to me to be the better option.

Also Nin gets def versus Melee, Ranged, and Area all early on. SR has to run another toggle for Area def which you can't get until late on.

So Nin saves at least two slots. The only advantage I can see for SR is that you can get another 7% def to melee and ranged with three slotted auto powers and you get an effective DO recharge in all your powers and increased running speed. Hmmm.

I can't decide if its worth it. Stalkers aren't really scrappers, do you need the extra def? Someone once said unless you're running elude you will get hit regardless, so a self heal seems to be a must and I find that's not possible with SR if you want to take the extra stealth. I think I'd rather have all my defence in two toggles, less slotting needed and have a self heal built into the set. Combine that with Nin's tricks for added versatility and Nin seems the clear winner over SR.

I chose SR for the reduced recharge to combine with EM's big hitters, but I'm not sure I made the right choice. I would have liked to have taken Stun too, but absolutely no chance of that with SR. However, all said and done, that reduced recharge does mean EM/SR has a higher DPS and there's no getting round that, which is why I've never rerolled Sacrilege as EM/Nin... yet

1. The AoE-Shield will usually not be needed in PvP-Zones later on. PvPers usually do not use AoEs, and you can by-pass the aggro-auras out of hide.

2. You do not need self-heal, if you have to stay in a fight long enough to heal yourself you already lost.

3. With teleport foe, you can decide the speed and place of the fight giving you an advantage over the opponent.

4. The recharge buff through Quickness is one of the main reasons to pick /SR over /Nin. It lets you go all out ACC and DMG on your Attacks, not having to care about Recharge that much.

Kaiser

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1. The AoE-Shield will usually not be needed in PvP-Zones later on. PvPers usually do not use AoEs, and you can by-pass the aggro-auras out of hide.

2. You do not need self-heal, if you have to stay in a fight long enough to heal yourself you already lost.

3. With teleport foe, you can decide the speed and place of the fight giving you an advantage over the opponent.

4. The recharge buff through Quickness is one of the main reasons to pick /SR over /Nin. It lets you go all out ACC and DMG on your Attacks, not having to care about Recharge that much.

Kaiser

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>_>

Ohh I forgot... I never needed Self-Heal in PvE either. And playing up to 35 is actually pretty easy, just use some purples.^^

Kaiser

Spines stalkers really can't cope. I started mine back when they were the only ones that could hurt stormies, bubblers and ice tanks/trollers, to make up for the lack of damage. Now that debuffs don't interrupt hide anymore, I can't really find a reason why a nerfed impale and low dmg unmez attacks would be a better option than uber energy dmg with mez on every attack.

I would never consider playing a /sr without aid self tho

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Spines stalkers really can't cope. I started mine back when they were the only ones that could hurt stormies, bubblers

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That is only situational. You can easily kill a single Stormie with EM/.

Flying above a Stormie with TF on Auto is one way to detoggle him. The Hurricane only KBs to the sides not upwards. Even if you get hit by the KB, you will be flying over him fast enough to still get the hit with a disorient.

Another way is (if you skilled teleport) to teleport right next to him into Hurricane with TF or Stun on Auto. The Attack will immediately hit the target w/o being debuffed by Hurricane first.

As I said before, this is all situational.

Kaiser

@Kaiser : i think the build i'm going for will be quite fine for both PvP and PvE, as for the earlier lvls i just pick the powers i feel in need of to keep the lvling at a nice speed then i use my Vet Reward respec to fit the build to what i want it.

Spines still is a good option imo, my spines/sr is lvl 30 and he does quite nicely in PvP and very lovely in PvE.

@Dragonfish: in my build i'm getting aid self in the 40's, not gonna get any of the ancillaries so thats not a problem for me.

the AoE def toggle really wont be used much by me personally, if i'm even gonna take it, i solo 99% of the time when i play my stalkers and AoE/PBAoE attacks count as normal meele/ranged attacks when they're aimed directly at you. (iirc)

@Blasphemy: Spines/* stalkers CAN cope, very nicely too imo, as i wrote above i have one myself and i love playing him.

the spiney i have is /sr without aid self and i'm pretty fine with that, i always carry insps whatever i'm doing so its really not that needed for me.

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@Blasphemy: Spines/* stalkers CAN cope, very nicely too imo, as i wrote above i have one myself and i love playing him.

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I also got one myself, but very rarely do i pop over RV with it. Really hard to be killed, but also really hard to get kills due to it's lethal dmg component. Having tried an EM afterwards spines gets quickly unshined. On one hand, poor dmg, much resisted, slow animations, only one attack with mez, and it's only immob... on the other hand, great damage, less resisted, quick animations and mez on every hit.

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1. The AoE-Shield will usually not be needed in PvP-Zones later on. PvPers usually do not use AoEs, and you can by-pass the aggro-auras out of hide.

2. You do not need self-heal, if you have to stay in a fight long enough to heal yourself you already lost.

3. With teleport foe, you can decide the speed and place of the fight giving you an advantage over the opponent.

4. The recharge buff through Quickness is one of the main reasons to pick /SR over /Nin. It lets you go all out ACC and DMG on your Attacks, not having to care about Recharge that much.

Kaiser

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I gather from what you are saying, you are rarely AS'ing and you are using EM's big hitters to scrap as quickly as possible? I remember reading about this tactic when someone was reporting on a base raid they took part in. If that's the case then SR's Quickness definitely comes in handy.

You are right, I am someone that usually gets his kills through a combination of:

[Out of Hide] BU + Total Focus + Energy Transfer (Squishie Down) + Placate + AS/Bonesmasher (Optional, usually only needed for Scrappers/Brutes, Tanks are a different story anyway)

or

BU + Teleport Foe + ET + Placate + AS/Total Focus (Squishie Down, I would advise this tactic only with Squishies or if porting a Scrapper/Brute/Tank with a second Stalker that has your target and has AS on Auto or a second EM buddy, because two ETs + two TFs go straight through for example Integration + Resilience)

It is very occasional that I actually stand somewhere or wait for an AS.
1. The probability of actually getting into a successful position to use a AS is lower, especially because the target might move and you would have to follow him to finish him off. The down time between AS and your follow up will give even the slowest /Regen Scrapper the chance to hit DP.
2. AS does not have a disorient. I love the big hitters in EM/ and I especially love the disorient component, making those little squishies just simple prey.

AS is naturally a defining power and I would never play without it, but it usually is very situational. Another good way to use it is with a Brute with Taunt.

/SR makes everything easier. You have a speed buff. I believe in PvP-Skilling you have to skill your travel powers to stay agile during the fight, this can sometimes work as an additional "shield". The reload not decreases the downtimes to Elude, but also your Build Up is back faster and your two big hitters come faster even with a 3 ACC 3 DMG slotting.

Kaiser

That all makes good sense, thanks for the tips.

I think I'll stick with my EM/SR stalker and try what you've suggested when I get round to PvPing with him.

Cheers.

Anyone everynotice that energy resistance is knida one side (for villains) owe to all EM/* stalkers if tanks get energy aura and scrappers elec armor!!