Fight pool offers sustainable passive defense, presence pool is unsustainable active defense. I'd take fight pool and bring the endurance cost of the whole build including attack chain cost down (not simply picking a power and 3 slotting end). Weave for herding is great as its better to not be hit at all and good to also miss out on most secondary effects.
Best thing for sappers or anyone dangerous is probably a ranged hold from epics as they have good duration if ya not fussy which one, go for fire or ice because you get the hold at 41, but fire would give ya more frequent ranged aggro grabbing skills too. Are you actually really wanting flight btw? cos combat jump and haste would be nicer.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
Fight pool offers sustainable passive defense, presence pool is unsustainable active defense. I'd take fight pool and bring the endurance cost of the whole build including attack chain cost down (not simply picking a power and 3 slotting end). Weave for herding is great as its better to not be hit at all and good to also miss out on most secondary effects.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good points.
Does weave protect against AoE effects?
It seems to suggest not in the description...
[ QUOTE ]
Best thing for sappers or anyone dangerous is probably a ranged hold from epics as they have good duration if ya not fussy which one, go for fire or ice because you get the hold at 41, but fire would give ya more frequent ranged aggro grabbing skills too. Are you actually really wanting flight btw? cos combat jump and haste would be nicer.
[/ QUOTE ]
I got Air Superiority to fill out my attack chain and flight looked cheap after that.. ideally I would like Teleport for style 
But Combat jumping would give a bit of extra defence...
Thanks for the advice 
Both Tough and Weave are very costly for what they give you. Need 2 endrecs to keep them ticking over permanently. If you need to Cap Defence, they're the way to go though.
Invoke Panic isn't half as good as K.O.Blow, Foot Stomp or Hurl though
Handclap, though much maligned, is a remarkably good soft control power, even more so since ragdoll.
As for Sappers and Carnies:
Carnies cause problems when up close, so leap in, Gauntlet with a power blow, and then try to hold aggro whilst your team mates take them down, backing off at the last minute to avoid the Stamina Scream.
If Soloing them, jump in Taunt, Stomp then hit Dull Pain, take down the lowest levels first to minimse the damage quickly and have a few blues to pop if you need them.
Sappers are a right pain in the backside, but control is again your best option. Flick through the Maltas for the Sapper, leap in quickly and deliver a power attack; pound him hard and he won't get time to Sap you.
As in everything, it's all about control and stopping them hitting you. If Defence fails, use Brains
Combat Jumping is the pits though. Only useful for squishies wanting KB protection.
i concur with SW here - i'd go for active attacking as defence over additional toggles anyday. having 2 inv tanks at 50 (one taunt and one tauntless) neither have needed tough or weave to be effective, whereas they could always do with more endurance
airsuper i had on my SS tank but found that compared to the same animation time attack in SS - while kb chance was higher - it was lacking damage wise so i respecced it out in favour for all SS attacks. this speeded up the attackchain a bit and once you're up to footstomp yur attack chains cycling nicely so you dont really need the airsuper in there.
you mention TP - maybe tp foe+ko blow would be a cool combo
@ExtraGonk
[ QUOTE ]
i concur with SW here - i'd go for active attacking as defence over additional toggles anyday. having 2 inv tanks at 50 (one taunt and one tauntless) neither have needed tough or weave to be effective, whereas they could always do with more endurance
[/ QUOTE ]
And me who consider myself less of a scranker, have made it this far using primary only. No need for tough weave either. I might have considered them if I continually tanked at the max aggro limit which I dont, because Im afraid of going over it and some mob attacking my teammates..
invoke panic is funny, and can be somewhat useful but needs to be heavily slotted to be effective.
If you're going for a soloist build then I'd build up attacks.
If you're going for a team-tanking build then the fighting pool is golden if you're fighting more than +2s.
Invincibility + Tough Hide + Weave (+ combat jumping?) can get you some decent mitigation against non-Smashing/lethal damage enemies. I've found +def tanking particularly fun vs CoT and Crey.
Personally I tried to make my tanker a good team tanking build, so much so that originally I didn't even take Rage and KO blow, preferring Tough/Weave and the three passives. Halfway through I got a bit bored of just cycling jab, boxing and haymaker over-and-over... so I respecced him to the build below.
The new build doesn't have two of INV's passives and takes weave late, but is a solid team tank, can solo reasonably quickly and has enough accuracy for a bit of casual pvp. The two taunt duration slots in invincibility might get moved to taunt eventually... will see how a fully-slotted FootStomp works out for AOE aggro control in a level or two (38 currently). End drain isn't that bad solo (since I usually just run perma-rage, unyielding, temp invun and combat jumping) and is usually a non-factor on teams.
On teams I usually run all my toggles and spam taunt and footstomp as needed, along with boxing + jab to hold gauntlet aggro. If there's less damage output on the team I can switch to running rage and using heavier attacks, at the cost of higher endurance use. If I'm getting speed boosted or AM, I can usually spam attacks as they recharge and stay in "heavy blue".
---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: tank_womble_final
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: Super Strength
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(1) DmgRes(3) DmgRes(3) EndRdx(11) EndRdx(13)
01) --> Jab==> Acc(1)
02) --> Dull Pain==> Rechg(2) Rechg(5) Rechg(5) Heal(7) Heal(7) Heal(48)
04) --> Haymaker==> Acc(4) Dmg(15) Dmg(15) Dmg(17) Rechg(19) EndRdx(19)
06) --> Hurdle==> Jump(6) Jump(46)
08) --> Unyielding==> DmgRes(8) DmgRes(9) DmgRes(9) EndRdx(11) EndRdx(13)
10) --> Boxing==> Acc(10)
12) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16) Heal(17)
18) --> Invincibility==> DefBuf(18) DefBuf(23) DefBuf(23) EndRdx(36) Taunt(37) Taunt(40)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --> Taunt==> Rechg(22) Rechg(37)
24) --> Tough==> DmgRes(24) DmgRes(25) DmgRes(25) EndRdx(27) EndRdx(31)
26) --> Hasten==> Rechg(26) Rechg(27) Rechg(37)
28) --> Knockout Blow==> Acc(28) Dmg(29) Dmg(29) Dmg(31) Rechg(34) EndRdx(34)
30) --> Rage==> Rechg(30) Rechg(31) Rechg(34) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(50)
32) --> Unstoppable==> DmgRes(32) Rechg(33) Rechg(33) Rechg(33)
35) --> Tough Hide==> DefBuf(35) DefBuf(36) DefBuf(36)
38) --> Foot Stomp==> Acc(38) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Rechg(40) EndRdx(40)
41) --> Weave==> DefBuf(41) DefBuf(42) DefBuf(42) EndRdx(42) EndRdx(43)
44) --> Focused Accuracy==> EndRdx(44) EndRdx(45) EndRdx(45) TH_Buf(45) TH_Buf(46) TH_Buf(46)
47) --> Resist Physical Damage==> DmgRes(47) DmgRes(48) DmgRes(48)
49) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(49) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Power Slide==> Run(1)
01) --> Sprint==> Jump(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------
Only problems I forsee are carnies and sappers.
But carnies don't all do psi damage and sappers are squishy!! 
I've found that using the Geas-the-kind-ones accolade (and/or unstoppable-like powers) as an emergency +end boost against sappers very useful on other toons. I don't imagine they'll be unsurvivably bad.
[ QUOTE ]
Only problems I forsee are carnies and sappers.
But carnies don't all do psi damage and sappers are squishy!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Carnies are pretty easy and I got a hold from my epic pool for sappers myself (the only epic power i got). If you end up in trouble with sappers, simply go unstoppable.
Ps. if you worry about psi damage, Rularuu wisps are 100x worse than carnies. Damn things are mez-resistant too.
[ QUOTE ]
Ps. if you worry about psi damage, Rularuu wisps are 100x worse than carnies. Damn things are mez-resistant too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hehe... wisps are Maelwys' favouritest enemies ever!!
Seriously, bosses that die in 2-3 hits from a Katana?
Always wondered why people found them difficult...
Once you get past the phasing thing they're yummy exp-fest chocolately goodness.
Well... If you don't mind the heavy psi damage. And their taunt-resistant brute friends.
From Mael's recent extended period in the Shard with a certain red-haired defender, he could quite happily solo his way through 2-3 man mobs of +2/+3 Rularuu as long as he remembered to take out the floating eyes first. The eyes seem to have some kind of mega-strength allied +tohit buff that lets the other Rularuu cut right through a double-stacked Divine Avalanche. Given that Mael would have had about +46% defense, I doubt that an INV tanker could tank Rularuu mobs based on +def.
I think if Womble ever needs to go up against Rularuu I'll switch to Mael and scrank 'em!
'bout time my Katana/Regen felt useful again...
Having good defence against carnie can save you endurance. Sure you could be out of the end sapping pbaoes but with good defence they could miss anyway. Add to that most things would miss. You actually can have more end to play with. I dont and perhaps wont have fight pool on my tank ingame but i have various builds on test.
Weave is def to all. I worry about weave being what i think 'maybe' def to all positionally (although it might'nt matter or the def to all is literally def to all). With def though you rely on luck and the higher the level you face the more easier you can actually be to hit by the bosses and AVs etc and without passives you take more damage. Is the difference in passive resistance actually puny? Well i find that area grey.
I used to have fight pool with weave before def scaleability and i thought it was pants really but since being on test with it, against carnie, its a good option. I do think you can through good team support and playstyle live without it but for doing away with being damaged and getting secondary effected whilst herding it is good.
Is weave better than passives? Well atm i think it all depends what ya built ya tank for.
When it comes to dark ring mistresses i value fly by taunt, the less time to be attacked by them with minimal defense the better and when it comes to them reaching herdpoint i value controls.
The way i do sappers is scrapperlike. If its a case of possible ambush if i ran in I'd do a flyby taunt, then as the sapper is coming around the corner of my hidepoint i would jump out and knockout blow them and then fit in my attack chain (they are dead by the end). If knockout blow misses then 'oh ****'..no i click unstoppable if necessary or conserve energy.
If there is no possible ambush i just need a straight line of sight to ss in and knockout blow them followed by footstomp to get the groups attention, finish my attack chain on sapper and carry on.
If the sapper is hovering high i may have to flyby hurl instead of flyby taunt but the ranged epic holds are better than anything else you have a choice about. I dont have them because i play with the concept of choice. Energy pool on my invuln, ice epic will be on my icetank, pyre mastery will be on my firetank and stone epic will be on my stonetank. People wll just have to learn to expect me to perhaps play a little differently but in a pug a chance to would be a fine thing. But anyway being first in for me is important although not always necessary but as most tanks i will wager will tell you that often you have to sort the sapper out for yourself as no one else does.
@maelwys
When it comes to shadow shard tfs i find being put in detention field most annoying.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, bosses that die in 2-3 hits from a Katana?
Always wondered why people found them difficult...
[/ QUOTE ]
Because they played with war mace? :/
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, bosses that die in 2-3 hits from a Katana?
Always wondered why people found them difficult...
[/ QUOTE ]
Because they played with war mace? :/
[/ QUOTE ]
Aww, diddums ^^
Now you know what Mael goes through when he's up against Freakshow tanks or mech enemies...
[ QUOTE ]
Now you know what Mael goes through when he's up against Freakshow tanks or mech enemies...
[/ QUOTE ]
Why's that?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now you know what Mael goes through when he's up against Freakshow tanks or mech enemies...
[/ QUOTE ]
Why's that?
[/ QUOTE ]
ps. if youre referring to lethal resistance, then what damage type do you think war mace does 
Interesting post Shannon. I dont have weave on my inv tank and I keep wondering whether I should try it or not. Still not decided as it means I need to sacrifice something else and at the moment the only pool powers I have are fly and fitness with everything else being concentrated in my primary and secondary. I like my attack chain and I built the tank to be able to solo as well as team with so it might come down to sacrificing primaries to get weave. Res energy/elements seem like the obvious candidates to be specced out but then I need to find something else. Descisions decisions. A run out on test may be looming I reckon.
[ QUOTE ]
but as most tanks i will wager will tell you that often you have to sort the sapper out for yourself as no one else does.
[/ QUOTE ]
If I know and really trust the person who says they'll sort the sapper for me I just keep an eye on it but don't let it interfere with my handling of the spawn as a whole. If I don't know or yet trust the person I'll sort the sapper myself. Things like this are fairly easy to deal with when you can trust your teammates to do their jobs.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now you know what Mael goes through when he's up against Freakshow tanks or mech enemies...
[/ QUOTE ]
Why's that?
[/ QUOTE ]
ps. if youre referring to lethal resistance, then what damage type do you think war mace does
[/ QUOTE ]
Given it's a Mace and therefore a blunt weapon, I think it does Smashing damage!
Smashing damage > Lethal damage on Mech mobs.
And most other armored mobs too, come to think of it...
I particularly hate it when I'm trying to clobber those darn Malta turrets.
Ever tried to cut a tin can with a sharp knife?
You can dent it with a hammer though.
Bah! You and your 1337 War Mace!!
Thanks for all the advice, I ended up playing it safe and just went for handclap.. I may experiment on the test server when I get a respec next.
I'm trying to make my tank fairly flexible.
I frequently solo as well as tank for an empath in my sg and quite often have to tank for large teams as well.
So I am going to need a good mix of attack and defense.
The safest way to use Clap is to lock onto a mob in the group, jump in, clap, autofollow the mob, and then you have 4+ disorientated mobs, 1 stuck in the scenery, Inv. from the mob you just followed and you can finish off those still conscious.
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the advice, I ended up playing it safe and just went for handclap..
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah let me know if its any good. I like the additional defence from foes being in my aura. I see handclap as a "buy time" power a bit like burn.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
Things like this are fairly easy to deal with when you can trust your teammates to do their jobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
I trust that when 2 empath defenders share the same team that they will AB eachother for more RA's and forts overtime or atleast keep eachother clearminded so that neither of them get held so that both of them can play better..erm nope.
I like tanks to be bodyguards, tell the team how their tank is going to play, what their tank is about to do and suggest what the team must do in order be safe with their tanker. On the first mob the team can get the jist and then you could trust the team to keep similar things in mind for the next mob so that they can do it faster...erm nope.
Many people mainly have one way of playing and thats mainly steamrolling and they forget whose in team, what powers the team have, what needs of support they or other people need, the ample time and space to give it or even what means of support they can give.
Thing is people tend to relax in my experience, after the first few mobs people become a bit laid back in their vigilance, a bit settled, the mission can become something of an "oh this is easy" and due to the laidbackness forget to apply what it is that makes it easy.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
Thing is people tend to relax in my experience, after the first few mobs people become a bit laid back in their vigilance, a bit settled, the mission can become something of an "oh this is easy" and due to the laidbackness forget to apply what it is that makes it easy.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, a fairly straight forward mission can go smelly pretty quickly when people think things are too easy and start doing their own thing too much. On teaming in general though, I've been experimenting with Teamspeak recently and I've found the easier communication makes a huge difference. Especially if you're like me and have a tendency to output gibberish when trying to type quickly in battle.
When i first started i tried TS. i found i liked people more as their toon rather than the real person. People when talking about politics, religion etc and nothing about game can unknowingly make me go off them. I am also on a network, my connection isnt as fast as id like it to be and i crash at times, TS and MSN does increase this. Also I play on french server, i dont speak french and yet i have experienced some of the best PuGs ever not knowing what people are saying but seeing what they are doing and knowing why is enough.
I dont think ordering people about is a good thing or to constantly have to ask people the same things is a good thing but i do have macro's, people may ignore macros but they are there for those that wont. If i give a herdpoint i am most likely not going to change my mind on it and people can pass it or be too close to it if they want but if in doing so they may put my tank at risk of defeat (sometimes people do more to decimate survivability than create it). I am not sure theyre worth saving but often i try, but i dislike no cooperation because there are reasons for my methods, largely to not repeat mistakes made by me or as seen of others.
I probably am more fun on villains cos i dont care, the reason why my corrupter buffs people is to keep them alive so the enemy dont get to her conceptually, my brute needs to herd cos she is dark armour and has no fitness pool, if she doesnt herd she doesnt do very well plus debt is great as we get an accolade. You are more rewarded on villains for being less supported/supportive.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Hi all,
I need a bit of advice about the direction my inv/ss tank is going.
At the moment I am about to hit level 30 and am considering either going for the Fighting pool for tough and weave or going for the Presence pool for the Invoke Panic.
I thought the Invoke panic might be useful against carnies and the like.
Here is my current build up to 28 with the planned presence picks:
01) --> Temp Invulnerability
01) --> Jab
02) --> Dull Pain
04) --> Haymaker
06) --> Resist Physical Damage
08) --> Air Superiority
10) --> Unyielding
12) --> Taunt
14) --> Fly
16) --> Swift
18) --> Invincibility
20) --> Health
22) --> Stamina
24) --> Knockout Blow
26) --> Tough Hide
28) --> Rage
30) --> Provoke
32) --> Unstoppable
35) --> Intimidate
38) --> Foot Stomp
41) --> Invoke Panic
Provoke would be a bit of a waste with taunt already there but I could respec out of taunt later maybe...
For the fighting pool I would take boxing now, tough at 35 and weave at 41. This would give a lot of lethal/smash resist which I don't seem to have any problem with already, but would weave make a big enough difference?
Edit: Also tough and weave seem a bit end-costly, how bad are they to run?
Also does anyone have any handy hints on dealing with Carnies and Sappers?
Any advice would be handy,