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If it claims that unyielding has weaker KB protection than grounded then there went credibility bye-bye 
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Did Power Thrust work against Grounded but not Unyielding?
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Why do you think I posted what I posted? Grounded is actually the first KB prot power I have come across that DOESNT protect from power thrust.
NOTHING KBs thru unyielding. Ever. Not even AVs or GMs.
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If it claims that unyielding has weaker KB protection than grounded then there went credibility bye-bye
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Did Power Thrust work against Grounded but not Unyielding?
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Why do you think I posted what I posted? Grounded is actually the first KB prot power I have come across that DOESNT protect from power thrust.
NOTHING KBs thru unyielding. Ever. Not even AVs or GMs.
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Just checking for clarity
That is definitely suspect then. I wish the Devs would just release accurate magnitude numbers so we could see what should be happening compared to what is happening - Statesman may have been involved with that Prima Update thingy, but the numbers don't seem to tie up on a lot of things.
Yeah, actually I don't mind there being a little variety in the powers and protection power magnitudes. I was just very surprised to come across this as this was the first such case. I wonder if the magnitude is smaller because grounded is an autopower?
Groundeds KB protection scales with your level btw so if some lvl 50 KB'ed a lvl 40 it probably will work thats why most ppl go with acro for the KB res in PVP.
Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS
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Yeah, actually I don't mind there being a little variety in the powers and protection power magnitudes. I was just very surprised to come across this as this was the first such case. I wonder if the magnitude is smaller because grounded is an autopower?
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That's probably it - usually click powers are more powerful than toggles, which are more powerful than auto-powers (or passives as I call them, to distinguish them from sticking a power on auto with ctrl+click).
And I don't think it would be too overpowering if dedicated knockback powers, like the three we mentioned (which otherwise do negligible damage), could knockback everyone regardless of status protection, with perhaps suppression kicking in to stop perma-knockdown. Someone taking those powers is only taking them for control reasons, and knockback isn't stackable by one person like most of the other status-type controls are because it has no duration.
Honestly there's no way any power should be totally useless in PvP - in that respect I guess Acrobatics knockback protection should be toned down as well, to be on par with brute/scrapper/stalker status shields.
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Groundeds KB protection scales with your level btw so if some lvl 50 KB'ed a lvl 40 it probably will work thats why most ppl go with acro for the KB res in PVP.
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Ahh yes of course - I remember reading that too.
That could explain the figures on City of Data then, as they all use a L50 character as their basis - maybe at L50 Grounded does offer better KB protection than things like Entropy Shield, with the balancing factor being that of course it won't work on uneven ground or in the air - would sound a fair trade to me, especially if Grounded was weaker at lower levels.
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Groundeds KB protection scales with your level btw so if some lvl 50 KB'ed a lvl 40 it probably will work thats why most ppl go with acro for the KB res in PVP.
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Tested the power thrust vs grounded with both players being lvl 50s. Brute got KBed.
Basically this is just trivia and conclusion is that PVP players should take acrobatics instead of grounded.
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Groundeds KB protection scales with your level btw so if some lvl 50 KB'ed a lvl 40 it probably will work thats why most ppl go with acro for the KB res in PVP.
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Tested the power thrust vs grounded with both players being lvl 50s. Brute got KBed.
Basically this is just trivia and conclusion is that PVP players should take acrobatics instead of grounded.
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Its still bugged to i think or its been fixed i'm not sure.
Still .. Acro is better for PVP.
Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS
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conclusion is that PVP players should take acrobatics instead of grounded.
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Yeah I don't think anyone can dispute that.
Be interesting to see how other status powers did against a Force Bolt 3-slotted with KB-dist enhancements with both players at L50, seeing as that's supposed to be the best KB power for magnitude.
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conclusion is that PVP players should take acrobatics instead of grounded.
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Yeah I don't think anyone can dispute that.
Be interesting to see how other status powers did against a Force Bolt 3-slotted with KB-dist enhancements with both players at L50, seeing as that's supposed to be the best KB power for magnitude.
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KB buff enhancements dont touch the magnitude though as far as I know.
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conclusion is that PVP players should take acrobatics instead of grounded.
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Yeah I don't think anyone can dispute that.
Be interesting to see how other status powers did against a Force Bolt 3-slotted with KB-dist enhancements with both players at L50, seeing as that's supposed to be the best KB power for magnitude.
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KB buff enhancements dont touch the magnitude though as far as I know.
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Yep your right they only enhance how far the target is knocked back.
Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS
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KB buff enhancements dont touch the magnitude though as far as I know.
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Be nice to know that for sure, though. I always understood that magnitude was tied to distance with KB, because there is no duration.
I guess Power Boost would be another way to test it - its supposed to buff durations but not magnitude, so be interesting to see if a power-boosted Power Thrust could get through the status protection of Unyielding - did you try that? Might be a good indicator of how knockback actually works, technically.
Power boost buffs the KB distance but never magnitude. I practise this by knockng skulls about 100 yds in Atlas 
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Only power in the entire game to affect magnitudes (in effect, not literally) is Domination. (energy doms dont get power thrust though)
I can try the power boost effect when I get back into the game though. I didnt use power boost in the grounded experiment.
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KB buff enhancements dont touch the magnitude though as far as I know.
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Be nice to know that for sure, though. I always understood that magnitude was tied to distance with KB, because there is no duration.
I guess Power Boost would be another way to test it - its supposed to buff durations but not magnitude, so be interesting to see if a power-boosted Power Thrust could get through the status protection of Unyielding - did you try that? Might be a good indicator of how knockback actually works, technically.
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All power mags are locked at a set mag and enhancers do not alter the mag in anyway .. i'm 100% sure on that.
Enhancers only alter the distance the target is knocked back.
Power boost does the same .. that will only change the distance the target is KB'ed to.
I'm pretty sure the only power that changes mag on powers is Domination on the Dom.
Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS
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All power mags are locked at a set mag and enhancers do not alter the mag in anyway .. i'm 100% sure on that.
Enhancers only alter the distance the target is knocked back.
Power boost does the same .. that will only change the distance the target is KB'ed to.
I'm pretty sure the only power that changes mag on powers is Domination on the Dom.
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Ok fair enough. So basically knockback distance enhancements are fairly useless unless you have a few spare slots and want to have a laugh knocking lowbie enemies across a map?
The other thing that made me think knockback enhancements affected magnitude was that the Devs said that knockdown is basically a low-magnitude knockback (knock-up isn't - it's something else in its own category) - and I know if you use a knockdown attack on lower level mobs it knocks back instead of down. I thought maybe that was linked to actual magnitude, but obviously distance is also a function of level differences as well as enhancements/PowerBoost, and the Dev just worded their quote poorly (I'll try and find it - was ages ago though and has probably dropped off US forum - think it was Castle that said it, and was in a topic about why Jump Kick was broken iirc).
I think that is disappointing though - if they let you slot knockback, and only knockback, for magnitude it might actually make knockback sets more useful in PvP (along with the aforesaid nerfing down of Acro to other status set levels - I've got Acro on loads of my characters and have never ever been knocked back/down/up by anything at all while using it).
I think i read the same post by castle .. i'm sure he said something along the lines of jumpkick when it hits makes the other player go through the KU animation but theres no actualy KU and they can hit right back.
Or something .. i've been asleep since 
Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS
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All power mags are locked at a set mag and enhancers do not alter the mag in anyway .. i'm 100% sure on that.
[/ QUOTE ]Even intangibility ones?
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I think i read the same post by castle .. i'm sure he said something along the lines of jumpkick when it hits makes the other player go through the KU animation but theres no actualy KU and they can hit right back.
Or something .. i've been asleep since
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Awww seeing the knockback when i used it sure had me fooled zzzzzz....
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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All power mags are locked at a set mag and enhancers do not alter the mag in anyway .. i'm 100% sure on that.
[/ QUOTE ]Even intangibility ones?
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adding enhancers to intangible power only alter the length of time a player or npc is phased.
Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS
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I think i read the same post by castle .. i'm sure he said something along the lines of jumpkick when it hits makes the other player go through the KU animation but theres no actualy KU and they can hit right back.
Or something .. i've been asleep since
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Awww seeing the knockback when i used it sure had me fooled zzzzzz....
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where abouts did i mention knockback ?
Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS
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All power mags are locked at a set mag and enhancers do not alter the mag in anyway .. i'm 100% sure on that.
[/ QUOTE ]Even intangibility ones?
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adding enhancers to intangible power only alter the length of time a player or npc is phased.
[/ QUOTE ]Well that contradicts every other quote on that I've seen, ever... I guess I'l need to respec in black hole later today and test it.
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Power boost buffs the KB distance but never magnitude. I practise this by knockng skulls about 100 yds in Atlas .
Only power in the entire game to affect magnitudes (in effect, not literally) is Domination. (energy doms dont get power thrust though)
I can try the power boost effect when I get back into the game though. I didnt use power boost in the grounded experiment.
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As Ive said before Ive got 2 lv 50 /elec brute, 1 of which has 275 PvP rating mainly from soloing. If u want to show me how Im "gimped" without acro and not a "true PvP build", then we can meet on test, contact @dark pulvatizer.
Oh and btw, energy Doms DO get power thrust, and PSI doms get telekinetic thrust; although some other dom sets lack a KB power. I have played an fire/energy dom to lv32 on US trial.
So many posts discussing the KB protection of grounded, 1 advantage u have over acro is that its an auto power unlike the end heavy toggle acro (which can be knocked off). All in all grounded is the way to go, and if u disagree prove me wrong on test!
Quite simply playing 2 /elec to lv 50 Ive been KB a handful of times of both and probably two hand full if u include times I left the ground. In PvP, Ive been knocked back a handful of times with attacks including jumpkick (animation time is as long as the knockdown animation), and power thrust; which with lightening reflexes u can get back into melee range in no time.
Additionally even, if u can KB me enough to prevent me from killing u on test (excluding using other tactics including hibernate and intangibility), I still dont care! Having grounded has never made me want acro instead. IMO /elec is the best brute 2ndary, with its end drain protection/attack, run speed increase, resistance based, tier 9 shield, specific resistances to all damage types, being highly resistant to energy attacks, attack rate increase. Its lack of heal is accomodated with getting aid self (and knowing how and when to use it), TP can let u escape from heavy mob fire to heal away from the action. U either learn to use aid self, or u sit on the boards complaining about it; with me for one wondering if u have the capacity to actually learn from your mistakes.
This to me reminds me of that UK based overclocking e-company (which shall remain nameless since Ive had bad experiences with them although I still shop with from time to time, praying I dont have to return anything) graphics section where some people always chip in saying nvidia rocks and ati sucks (and some vice versa); and try to influence anyone who has no prior knowledge with completely wrong, biased information and down right lies! In fact both ATI and Nvidia will give u good results but some people will always have a preference one way or the other; hence mirroring acro/grounded.
Perhaps this grounded sucks, acro ftw attitude stems from the fact that they prefer the leaping pool as a travel power, whereas I dont; its very hard to stop a toon who wants to TP away, unlike the leaping pool where 1 temp power webnade spoils your day! 
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As Ive said before Ive got 2 lv 50 /elec brute, 1 of which has 275 PvP rating mainly from soloing. If u want to show me how Im "gimped" without acro and not a "true PvP build", then we can meet on test, contact @dark pulvatizer.
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First, I don't remember saying you or I or anyone was gimped. I said that acro is recommended for PvP brutes.
Meeting on test server sounds cool. Contact me at @Hammerfall both on live and test. I just need to check which of my characters on test has the up-to-date build.
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Oh and btw, energy Doms DO get power thrust
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You might want to re-check that. Doms get power burst, not power thrust.
I thought they had power push too?
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If it claims that unyielding has weaker KB protection than grounded then there went credibility bye-bye
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Did Power Thrust work against Grounded but not Unyielding?